F Rutger McGroarty - WBS Penguins, AHL (2022, 14th, WPG; traded to PIT)

[HabsAddict]

My point is that McGroarty has a higher ceiling than Newhook and plays a more projectable playoff style. It would be foolish to say Newhook is untouchable in any trade package

And you know this how? Your spider senses tingling? Extensive NHL scouting?

Also learn how to read. I NEVER said anything about Newhook being untouchable in any trade package. I clearly implied that McG is not worth Newhook.

Anywho...

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Winnipeg is arguably the least desirable city in the entire league. It's hard to build a real cup contender when they're on a bunch of NTC lists.

It's easy to throw stones when you've have half your core force their way or take discounts to play for the Rags. You guys would look very different if you didn't have Fox, Panarin, Trouba, and Trocheck. Honestly, that description of the Jets is pretty similar to the Rags. One of just a very desirable team and city to play for, and the other is not.

We don't have to make this about my team. I think we've made some mistakes, and we are paying for that. And please drop the rags slur.

But overall, Winnipeg and literally every other NHL team has the opportunity to give their drafted and traded for players every chance to develop into impactful NHL'ers. The topic of this thread is a player they are refusing to give that opportunity because middle of the league players are their priority.

 

[lawrence]

forget the Russian factor. the latest trend is American factor!!!

 

[Silky Johnson]

We don't have to make this about my team. I think we've made some mistakes, and we are paying for that. And please drop the rags slur.

But overall, Winnipeg and literally every other NHL team has the opportunity to give their drafted and traded for players every chance to develop into impactful NHL'ers. The topic of this thread is a player they are refusing to give that opportunity because middle of the league players are their priority.

You are right, he was off topic.

What is the right forum to talk about why it's funny that the rags have only one cup in the last 83 years despite having all the advantages? Main board right?

 

[Michoulicious]

You can't set the precedent of guarantees. Good or bad team. What if next year, now knowing that that's something that can be done, you have 2-3 more prospects that want guaranteed spots - and you don't have them - you have other prospects that need NHL time, contract spots, etc.

It can be manageable if it's only one player, but one will quickly become 4-5. No team can continually guarantee multiple roster spots repeatedly. Let's say you use NYR and trade for Rutger. Now he's like "awesome" - I'm playing in the NHL whether I suck or not. Then you have Perrault who comes in and says "I want guaranteed top 6" or "top line." Is he a good prospect? Absolutely, are you going to tell Panarin to F-off (or whoever else) because of these?

This is just where it starts. It always escalates, and it's never good.

So if you decide to hold the line while other GMs give that to the kids, accept the consequences.

 

[Huffer]

Maybe he doesn't want to commit to a team that refused to give him the same thing that all high profile NCAA prospects get?

Even Lane Hutson, a late 2nd rounder from the same draft, got to burn the first year of his ELC playing 2 NHL games in his D+1...

Cutter Gauthier got the same from Anaheim.

Why would McGroarty accept less? They should just have signed him, played him a game, then they would have his rights, he would have burnt a year of his ELC, and they could have sent him to the AHL this year. Everyone would have been happy.

But yeah, Winnipeg was too great of a team to do that... Now deal with the consequences.

The way they treated Perfetti is not a great sign for any young forward in the system.

The bolded is not true. The Jets did offer to sign McGroarty in the spring of 2024.

He wanted a guarantee he wouldn't be sent to the AHL this year. No GM makes that promise.

 

[57special]

I mean, he is not wrong. Why would they trade a at worst 45 points winger with speed for a player you don’t even know will get you that.

Who are you talking about? Sure as hell can't be Newhook.

 

[57special]

Maybe slightly, not really worth trading a known commodity for a little extra upside.

You are looking at the world through Bleu, Blanc, Rouge glasses. McGroarty is worth more than Newhook, who was given all sorts of chances on a CO team desperate for quality depth, and failed to measure up.

 

[thedjpd]

The bolded is not true. The Jets did offer to sign McGroarty in the spring of 2024.

He wanted a guarantee he wouldn't be sent to the AHL this year. No GM makes that promise.

Cutter did the same. Everybody thinks the Flyers didn’t want to sign him; they didn’t have a problem signing him. They had a problem with him being NHL guaranteed, and wouldn’t give it.

Contrary to popular belief, this is how good organizations are run - not the other way around.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Are the Jets a good team?

Anyway, I'll speak for my team, the Rangers, (a good team).

I would have no issue guaranteeing him top 9 and PP. Every team in the league, including good teams, has at least one semi-open top 9 and PP spot. If a team wants him enough, they'll be willing to do so.

The Jets don't, so they are going to proceed like this. That's their choice. Time will tell if they made the right decision.

To answer your question, the Jets finished with 111 points in the league's toughest division. The Rangers had 114 points playing in the Metro.
Yes, they are a good team.

 

[Huffer]

Cutter did the same. Everybody thinks the Flyers didn’t want to sign him; they didn’t have a problem signing him. They had a problem with him being NHL guaranteed, and wouldn’t give it.

Contrary to popular belief, this is how good organizations are run - not the other way around.

100%.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

We don't have to make this about my team. I think we've made some mistakes, and we are paying for that. And please drop the rags slur.

But overall, Winnipeg and literally every other NHL team has the opportunity to give their drafted and traded for players every chance to develop into impactful NHL'ers. The topic of this thread is a player they are refusing to give that opportunity because middle of the league players are their priority.

Have you even watched a Jets game?

Scheifele, Ehlers, and Conner are hardly "middle of the league" players. Morrissey is better than any defenseman the Rangers have (yes, including Adam Fox), and the same can be said of Hellebuyck in goal.

Something tells me your real reason for disparaging the Jets is the Blake Wheeler fiasco.

Imagine that. The Rangers signing a player over 35 and it not panning out?

That almost never happens. Or goes back to the days of Doug Harvey, Marcel Dionne and Boom Boom Geoffrion.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

He’s a spoiled petulant child who thinks opportunities should be given and not earned.

I love these overreacting takes LOL

Show me where Rutger hurt you

 

[EveryDay]

Newhook is just a younger Dvorak lol

You trade those kinds of players for prospects like Rutger lol

Delusional

So I guess you would trade Pinto for Rutger since he's the same caliber of player as Newhook, another younger Dvorak?

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

We don't have to make this about my team. I think we've made some mistakes, and we are paying for that. And please drop the rags slur.

But overall, Winnipeg and literally every other NHL team has the opportunity to give their drafted and traded for players every chance to develop into impactful NHL'ers. The topic of this thread is a player they are refusing to give that opportunity because middle of the league players are their priority.

Have you even watched a Jets game?

Scheifele, Ehlers, and Conner are hardly "middle of the league" players. Morrissey is better than any defenseman the Rangers have (yes, including Adam Fox), and the same can be said of Hellebuyck in goal.

Something tells me your real reason for disparaging the Jets is the Blake Wheeler fiasco.

Imagine that. The Rangers signing a player over 35 and it not panning out?

That almost never happens. Or goes back to the days of Doug Harvey, Marcel D and Boom Boom Geoffrion.

The bolded is not true. The Jets did offer to sign McGroarty in the spring of 2024.

He wanted a guarantee he wouldn't be sent to the AHL this year. No GM makes that promise.

Who does he think he is? A Hughes brother?

 

[EveryDay]

You are looking at the world through Bleu, Blanc, Rouge glasses. McGroarty is worth more than Newhook, who was given all sorts of chances on a CO team desperate for quality depth, and failed to measure up.

Did you watch him last year?

What do you mean failed in Colorado, he produced over 30 in both his first 2 seasons in Colorado on the 3rd line, is it really a fail??

 

[Michoulicious]

The bolded is not true. The Jets did offer to sign McGroarty in the spring of 2024.

He wanted a guarantee he wouldn't be sent to the AHL this year. No GM makes that promise.

Source? I read they didn't want to give him a NHL game to burn his ELC.

Hutson, Gauthier, and co. were allowed to play a game or two to do so.

They could have been sent down after, but season was over anyways.

 

[jfhabs]

You are looking at the world through Bleu, Blanc, Rouge glasses. McGroarty is worth more than Newhook, who was given all sorts of chances on a CO team desperate for quality depth, and failed to measure up.

at 21 and 22 years old.
He produced at a decent pace and played well last year for us.
He has shown to be capable of playing in a top 6.

What is your expectation for McGroarty? Personnally, I don't see a ppg or 1st line player. More of a 2nd line player with grit.

 

[LeProspector]

So I guess you would trade Pinto for Rutger since he's the same caliber of player as Newhook, another younger Dvorak?

I don’t have an opinion one way or another on Pinto, I don’t see why he’s even relevant to this discussion?

My opinion is Newhook isn’t good, I think he will be a middling NHLer. A guy that every team has a few of.

My opinion on Rutger is he will be a very valuable playoff top-6 guy. A guy that teams always look for, a guy who will wear a letter in the NHL one day.

 

[jfhabs]

Did you watch him last year?

What do you mean failed in Colorado, he produced over 30 in both his first 2 seasons in Colorado on the 3rd line, is it really a fail??

Shinny new toy syndrome.

Colorado is looking for players now, but in 21-22 they had Rantanen, Mackinnon, Landeskog, Kadri, Burakovsky and Nichushkin . There was no room for a 20yo Newhook on that top 6.

The following season, they had acquired Lekhonen (27yo) and Rodriges (29yo) while Compher (27yo) and O'Connor (26 yo) played a bigger role. Rantanen, Mackinnon and Nichushkin were still there. It was Newhook 21yo season.

By no means a player should be considered a finished product at 21 years old.
Some will be disappointed if they expect McGoarty to produce more than Newhook out of the gate.

 

[jfhabs]

I don’t have an opinion one way or another on Pinto, I don’t see why he’s even relevant to this discussion?

My opinion is Newhook isn’t good, I think he will be a middling NHLer. A guy that every team has a few of.

My opinion on Rutger is he will be a very valuable playoff top-6 guy. A guy that teams always look for, a guy who will wear a letter in the NHL one day.

You're projecting best case scenario for McGoarty and worst case scenario for Newhook.

I think McGoarty will be good too, but I see him as a similar player to Farabe. He played on stacked teams for the past few years, so I think his stats are a bit inflated. Very good player, but I think is skating is below average and he's not that big by NHL standards so it won't be an asset as significant as it as so far.

 

[Huffer]

Source? I read they didn't want to give him a NHL game to burn his ELC.

Hutson, Gauthier, and co. were allowed to play a game or two to do so.

They could have been sent down after, but season was over anyways.

What I'm hearing about why Jets top prospect Rutger McGroarty is in trade talks

McGroarty's view of his long-term future with Winnipeg has changed since the conclusion of his NCAA season.

www.nytimes.com

"Winnipeg wanted to sign McGroarty to a professional contract in April but was unwilling to promise a path to playing time."

"“We made it very open to him at the onset that we were more than willing to sign him, more than willing to turn him pro. But in the same token, we need him to make that decision for what he feels is best for his development,” Cheveldayoff said in May. “I think Rutger is looking for an even bigger role where he can help lead a team to greatness and help his development there.”"

The Jets were more than willing to sign him and burn the year. They've done the same thing before. The only thing they can be accused of is not willing to promise a spot to someone (which they shouldn't), and not being willing to lie to someone and "promise" them a spot and then send them to the AHL anyway.

 

[Michoulicious]

What I'm hearing about why Jets top prospect Rutger McGroarty is in trade talks

McGroarty's view of his long-term future with Winnipeg has changed since the conclusion of his NCAA season.

www.nytimes.com

"Winnipeg wanted to sign McGroarty to a professional contract in April but was unwilling to promise a path to playing time."

"“We made it very open to him at the onset that we were more than willing to sign him, more than willing to turn him pro. But in the same token, we need him to make that decision for what he feels is best for his development,” Cheveldayoff said in May. “I think Rutger is looking for an even bigger role where he can help lead a team to greatness and help his development there.”"

The Jets were more than willing to sign him and burn the year. They've done the same thing before. The only thing they can be accused of is not willing to promise a spot to someone (which they shouldn't), and not being willing to lie to someone and "promise" them a spot and then send them to the AHL anyway.

Your quote talks about them signing him and him turning pro, but they don't talk about allowing him to burn an ELC year.

The big problem is that IMO.

Where have you read they were willing to give him NHL games?

 

[Huffer]

Your quote talks about them signing him and him turning pro, but they don't talk about allowing him to burn an ELC year.

The big problem is that IMO.

Where have you read they were willing to give him NHL games?

I don't think you'll find an article from Chevy using the terms "burn a year". But whether or not he even got in a game at the end of the season (I think there were only 1 or 2 left after Michigan was eliminated), McGroarty's ELC would have burned a year if he got into a game or not due to the fact he was 20 and after signing it wouldn't have slid. So by Chevy saying he was willing to sign him and turn him pro, is saying he's willing to burn the year.

Basically the notion that the Jets handled this inappropriately is pure BS. They were more than willing to sign him in the spring and burn a year (by him already being 20). The only thing they didn't do is make false promises that he was guaranteed a spot on the NHL roster in 2024-2025.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1777475551407784326

 

[Zarzh]

Shinny new toy syndrome.

Colorado is looking for players now, but in 21-22 they had Rantanen, Mackinnon, Landeskog, Kadri, Burakovsky and Nichushkin . There was no room for a 20yo Newhook on that top 6.

The following season, they had acquired Lekhonen (27yo) and Rodriges (29yo) while Compher (27yo) and O'Connor (26 yo) played a bigger role. Rantanen, Mackinnon and Nichushkin were still there. It was Newhook 21yo season.

By no means a player should be considered a finished product at 21 years old.
Some will be disappointed if they expect McGoarty to produce more than Newhook out of the gate.

I don't think it is unreasonable to say McGroarty is already a better player than Newhook and has a much higher ceiling.

You're projecting best case scenario for McGoarty and worst case scenario for Newhook.

No, he's not. Newhook is a small, soft forward that can produce at an alright pace but is easy to play against, not a high bar to clear.