F Rutger McGroarty - University of Michigan, NCAA (2022, 14th, WPG; traded to PIT)

[cg98]

Total moving of the goalposts.

The comment was about players at his position.

They quite literally are running out bums like Appleton, Niederreiter, Iafallo, Barron as their bottom six wingers. Not to mention they have Namestnikov as a top 6 center, and they easily could’ve worked around that by having Vilardi at center.

As I said, 3 or 4 players who could’ve been ahead of him. Instead, they chose mediocrity. They chose these mediocrities so early on that they weren’t even willing to sign the dude and tell him what he wanted to hear.

They were gonna run it back and wonder why the same things keep happening. Someone has to be a middle of the league team in this league. Chevy perpetuates it. Don’t understand why the fans get mad at people for saying it or first round picks who have reasonable asks of their team as opposed to their team for delivering an undesirable product.


There’s literally no indication he’s rushed. He was a first round pick, had a successful two years in college, and was pretty darn good in the preseason. Not like he’s playing for the Hawks or Sharks either where there is just guaranteed opportunity for anyone who doesn’t suck.

What does any of those players have to do with developing our top 6 'difference maker" talents lol. All of those guys are bottom 6 plugs who...play in our bottom 6. Its still pretty important to develop and acquire those too btw. Vilardi is not a natural center and never has been at the NHL level, and neither is McGroarty. Neither of those players would alleviate the problem at 2C even with Namestnikov there as a stopgap. Talking about "moving goalposts". Lol.

McGroarty isnt even considered to be a fulltime mainstay in Pittsburgh yet and was teetering on the edge of being sent down anyway until Rust and a few other wingers on Pittsburgh were injured. Its almost as if he needs development time playing top 6 in the AHL that he so desparately wants to avoid even if he is a first round prospect. Color me shocked

 

[Heldig]

Total moving of the goalposts.

The comment was about players at his position.

They quite literally are running out bums like Appleton, Niederreiter, Iafallo, Barron as their bottom six wingers. Not to mention they have Namestnikov as a top 6 center, and they easily could’ve worked around that by having Vilardi at center.

As I said, 3 or 4 players who could’ve been ahead of him. Instead, they chose mediocrity. They chose these mediocrities so early on that they weren’t even willing to sign the dude and tell him what he wanted to hear.

They were gonna run it back and wonder why the same things keep happening. Someone has to be a middle of the league team in this league. Chevy perpetuates it. Don’t understand why the fans get mad at people for saying it or first round picks who have reasonable asks of their team as opposed to their team for delivering an undesirable product.


There’s literally no indication he’s rushed. He was a first round pick, had a successful two years in college, and was pretty darn good in the preseason. Not like he’s playing for the Hawks or Sharks either where there is just guaranteed opportunity for anyone who doesn’t suck.

Too soon to tell if he is being rushed. The premise was gifting him a spot so he would sign with the Jets. It is a bad way to operate a franchise. He could have cme t camp and forced his way on the roster. He chose to demand a trade instead.

There is also the consideration of managing assets - something the Jets have to do as they wont attract many free agents. Players that can be sent down vs players that have to be waived makes for some difficult decisions.

And of course we do not know the real reasons McGroarty did a 180 degree turn on the franchise. MIght have zero to do with guaranteed playing time.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

What does any of those players have to do with developing our top 6 'difference maker" talents lol. All of those guys are bottom 6 plugs who...play in our bottom 6. Its still pretty important to develop and acquire those too btw. Vilardi is not a natural center and never has been at the NHL level, and neither is McGroarty. Neither of those players would alleviate the problem at 2C even with Namestnikov there as a stopgap. Talking about "moving goalposts". Lol.

McGroarty isnt even considered to be a fulltime mainstay in Pittsburgh yet and was teetering on the edge of being sent down anyway until Rust and a few other wingers on Pittsburgh were injured. It’s almost as if he needs development time playing top 6 in the AHL that he so desparately wants to avoid even if he is a first round prospect. Color me shocked

I think it’s pretty obvious, but telling a player who could actually develop into a difference maker that there’s no room for him because the mediocrities gotta eat isn’t something that progressive teams do. Progressive teams would move out a few of the mediocrities to make room for a player who could be a difference maker. They would give every chance to that player. Jets basically told him they have no room for him because the mediocrities gotta eat. Seems simple. Not very confusing.

Vilardi was also drafted as a center. Pretty sure he actually is a natural center, even if he played as a winger in his draft year.

And I’m not actually sure it’s true to claim he barely made Penguins roster. I think it was more likely someone else would’ve made way for Rust. In fact, Penguins fans have decried how they have too much mediocrity as their wingers surrounding their two big star forwards, yet they made room for McGroarty and he earned his spot when given the opportunity to make the team. Two things the Jets wouldn’t even entertain.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Too soon to tell if he is being rushed. The premise was gifting him a spot so he would sign with the Jets. It is a bad way to operate a franchise. He could have cme t camp and forced his way on the roster. He chose to demand a trade instead.

There is also the consideration of managing assets - something the Jets have to do as they wont attract many free agents. Players that can be sent down vs players that have to be waived makes for some difficult decisions.

And of course we do not know the real reasons McGroarty did a 180 degree turn on the franchise. MIght have zero to do with guaranteed playing time.

Have you ever been to Pittsburgh? The idea that the Jets have to manage their roster this way because the city of Winnipeg is derided by NHL players is so stupid. The overwhelming majority of NHL players don’t have any issue playing wherever.

Whether McGroarty succeeds early in Pittsburgh is a totally different discussion from whether he was ready. It isn’t a determination in hindsight. It’s a determination at the time. It should be judged on whether what he’s done prior to the NHL entitles him the opportunity to play in the NHL at that time.

 

[josra33]

He went from one team who won their opening game 6-0 to a team that lost their opening game 6-0.

 

[Craig Ludwig]

Too soon to tell if he is being rushed. The premise was gifting him a spot so he would sign with the Jets. It is a bad way to operate a franchise. He could have cme t camp and forced his way on the roster. He chose to demand a trade instead.

There is also the consideration of managing assets - something the Jets have to do as they wont attract many free agents. Players that can be sent down vs players that have to be waived makes for some difficult decisions.

And of course we do not know the real reasons McGroarty did a 180 degree turn on the franchise. MIght have zero to do with guaranteed playing time.

Here is the top three real reasons:

1. Money
2. Money
3. Money

Well Rutger, you burned a year off your ELC and "might" play a full year in the NHL because of your trade demand. Congrats, you made $950,000 instead of $80,000 in your first year by avoiding learning how to play big minutes with big boys in the AHL. You're also stunting your development by playing limited minutes in the NHL. So to make that extra $870,000 this year, you are risking a massive, massive payoff in a few years (see Guenther contract, $57 Million). Pittsburgh is a dying franchise talent wise, and you won't have any support, thus crappier numbers to lead to that big contract. Dumb decision that should not be made by a 20 year old, unfortunately probably made by his agent.

 

[cg98]

I think it’s pretty obvious, but telling a player who could actually develop into a difference maker that there’s no room for him because the mediocrities gotta eat isn’t something that progressive teams do. Progressive teams would move out a few of the mediocrities to make room for a player who could be a difference maker. They would give every chance to that player. Jets basically told him they have no room for him because the mediocrities gotta eat. Seems simple. Not very confusing.

Vilardi was also drafted as a center. Pretty sure he actually is a natural center, even if he played as a winger in his draft year.

And I’m not actually sure it’s true to claim he barely made Penguins roster. I think it was more likely someone else would’ve made way for Rust. In fact, Penguins fans have decried how they have too much mediocrity as their wingers surrounding their two big star forwards, yet they made room for McGroarty and he earned his spot when given the opportunity to make the team. Two things the Jets wouldn’t even entertain.

You act like McGroarty is some cant miss prospect that teams who pick him have to build around. He is not. He is a foundational piece that you use to build around someone who is, but he is not going to be the guy any team leans their future on even on the wing. It wasnt the case in Winnipeg and its not going to be the case in Pittsburgh. He had a pretty mid preseason until like 1 game with Poolparty, and all the Pens fans on the boards were expecting him to be sent down, which contradicts your opinion entirely.

Vilardi is not an NHL center. Fullstop I dont care what he was in his injury riddled Junior career in the OHL when he was drafted, when hes shown that he cant drive the play up the middle of the ice as well in the NHL all these years later. He is a great play driving defensive winger who has good hands and passing in tight spaces but if you are an NHL team trotting out Vilardi as your top center you have some clear issues up front and hes not going to fix it as your fulltime top 6 center. He is just as much of a stopgap in the middle as Namestnikov is. McGroarty wasnt going to fix the 2C issue either no matter how high, hard and loud you proclaim that he can.

 

[Huffer]

I think it’s pretty obvious, but telling a player who could actually develop into a difference maker that there’s no room for him because the mediocrities gotta eat isn’t something that progressive teams do. Progressive teams would move out a few of the mediocrities to make room for a player who could be a difference maker. They would give every chance to that player. Jets basically told him they have no room for him because the mediocrities gotta eat. Seems simple. Not very confusing.

Vilardi was also drafted as a center. Pretty sure he actually is a natural center, even if he played as a winger in his draft year.

And I’m not actually sure it’s true to claim he barely made Penguins roster. I think it was more likely someone else would’ve made way for Rust. In fact, Penguins fans have decried how they have too much mediocrity as their wingers surrounding their two big star forwards, yet they made room for McGroarty and he earned his spot when given the opportunity to make the team. Two things the Jets wouldn’t even entertain.

It's about roles on the various lines, and minutes as well though.

He was not going to beat out Connor, Vilardi, Ehlers, or Perfetti for a top 6 winger spot.

Vilardi is not a centre, has not played centre for the Jets and I don't think he played much there in LA. So him all of a sudden moving to centre to try and accommodate McGroarty makes 0 sense in reality.

Niederreiter and Appleton play the tough minutes with Lowry. There's 0 chance a team looks to put a rookie in that position to play those hard minutes and also expect that player to also try and develop some offense. That line is already a well performing line.

So then you look at the "Bums" as you call it on the 4th. Because that's the only line that McGroarty had a chance on. Iafallo is a guy that can play up and down the lineup and is a luxury to have on the 4th. He played in the top 6 I believe in LA at times. Barron is probably more like league average for a 4th liner. But that's also not a place you want to put a guy that you hope can become a top 6 player some day. Playing a ton of minutes in the AHL as opposed to limited minutes on the 4th line would have been much better for McGroarty's development had he stayed with the Jets and it would been the right decision.

If he can get top 6 minutes with the Pens, or at least a good amount of minutes not being put in a defensive matchup role that is something that might benefit him as well. If that's what he gets in Pittsburgh and it works out for him, then great for him. But he likely wasn't getting that from the Jets, and it was 100% the right decision by the Jets as well.

Lambert was taken in the same draft and was an AHL all-star and all rookie team last year. He also did not make the Jets this season but it's not because the Jets are some sort of anomaly, it's because he didn't clearly beat out quality NHL players in the top 6, he's not going to play on the Lowry line as explained above, and having him play more limited minutes on the 4th is a worse idea than having a 20 year old further develop all aspects of his game with a second season in the AHL.

JETS NOTEBOOK: Brad Lambert shrugging off disappointment, aims to get back to NHL

If Brad Lambert pulls a Kyle Connor, it will be because they share at least one thing in common: a level head.

winnipegsun.com

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Get your point, but overall not great track record for forward draft prospects in Pitt (Puustinen is a no). And with Sid and Malkin aging out, McGroarty won't have any help at all, again hurting his growth potential and opportunity to sign the big contract. Dumb move on his (and his agent's) part.

I'd say that's more attributable to a lack of high end draft picks due to trading them for playoff runs.

Which promising forward prospects do you think were compromised by poor development from Pittsburgh?