F James Hagens - Boston College, NCAA (2025 Draft)

[Juxtaposer]

Anyone reading into points that much, especially after only six games of which the early season schedules can be wildly different in terms of difficulty...

Hagens will get his points because he's very skilled and playing with Leonard and Perreault on a stacked BC team. It's more about the fact that I haven't been blown away when watching him so far this season. Certainly hasn't been bad, but I was expecting more from him.

While he is the incumbent top ranked prospect for a reason, I don't think he's separated himself from Martone, Misa, and Schaefer. Right now, I see the four of them all in the same tier, which I would call "below average 1st overall caliber". All clearly behind Celebrini last year but ahead of the rest except perhaps Demidov. I think 1st overall is wide open for any of those four to grab.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1854722259308429534

Misleading tweet. Harder schedule and shooting 6%.

 

[Corso]

Six games played is such a small sample size to make any determinations. Let's wait until the 15-18 game mark before making any comparisons. IMO, he will rank up there with the best.

 

[Leviathan899]

I’ve already stated my opinion on Celebrini and Hagens in another thread so I won’t reiterate that here.

However I think between this and the scheduling complaints in the summer you seem think there’s a TSN/Hockey Canada conspiracy, which I can assure you if you listened to the initial McKenzie draft show there wasn’t, they were all very complimentary of his game and I think 9 of the 10 first place votes went to him, and there was no sharpshooting at all

If anything these days, there’s a strong bias in the media and independent scouts to over hype Americans and downplay Canadian kids. See it nearly every year, and the NTDP is a big part of it.

 

[Leviathan899]

McKenzie used a scout quote saying Hagens’ size was a concern, which was always bullshit, and Button recently pushed Martone for 1OA, which is BS as well. Both are Canadian, both are in the media, and both work for TSN.

TSN just posted a YT video calling Martone a “Potential 1st overall pick.

Martone is not in Hagens’ class, end of story.

Martone absolutely is in his class. While I’d still take Hagens right now if given the choice, they’re close. Hagens clears him in some areas and then Martone clears him in others. Martone is a guy who could be a 90-100 point player in his prime while being a pain in the ass to play against and has big time leadership qualities.

 

[Leviathan899]

Hagens already cemented himself as a 1st overall pick months before the season. He’s done nothing wrong - literally nothing — that would change that. The narrative shifted with Martone lighting up a joke league.

Did you see them head to head in August? Huge disparity in a big game. One guy was beyond sloppy and invisible, the other wasn’t. Flip the script and the narrative would hurt Hagens’ status.

Also, Martone is in his third OHL season with a massive size advantage playing against 16-19 YO dmen with a minor threat of physicality. Put Martone in the NCAA and facing Augustine, Posch, and Slukynsky in the early season, and I guarantee you he’s not padding the stats that make people like yourself think he’s in the conversation. And even still, Hagens is leading Boston College in scoring.

I’ll buy Schaefer going 1OA over Hagens than Martone.

Well let’s consider Martone is a much better prospect than Hage, who’s leading Michigan in scoring right now. While Hage is good himself, both played on the JRC in MM and Martone was better, by far. Martone would be right there with Hagens. Calling the OHL a joke of a league is flat out hilarious, but not surprising coming from you. Most biased “scout” in the game. You’re also basing this off one game in august haha like come on. I watched a game this year where Cal Ritchie blew the doors off Will Smith head to head, does that mean Ritchie is a better prospect than Smith?

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Calling the OHL a joke of a league is flat out hilarious

Yeah. You can make the argument it's probably over-drafted, but calling it a joke, is, well, a joke.

 

[Leviathan899]

The OHL was once a great league. That is no longer the case. I called it a joke league compared to what it used to be. Just because it drafts the most players doesn’t mean they’re turning into quality NHL’ers, if they even make it. The WHL to me has always been superior in recent years terms of NHL readiness. The NCAA also has been better in recent years at producing quality NHL talent.

Look at all the top scorers and top rookie scorers since 2018. Less and less OHL representation from those 25 and under. The OHL had great runs in the 2000s and 2010s but it’s really petered off. Most of the NHL’s best OHL-trained players are in their late 20s or in their 30s. This isn’t news — Canadian players are leaving for the U.S. and Americans are staying home to play college. It’s silly to deny the drop in quality when the CHL is being bled white from a lack of revenue, mostly from the sharp decrease in Canadian kids who play hockey in general.

Quality of play in the OHL is terrible. Poor execution, lack of fundamentals, etc. It’s gotten way soft, the pace is dull, and the goaltending is horrific. I watch every league and the OHL is by far the least exciting. Last night I watched a Brampton-Windsor replay and the pace and execution was dreadful. Even the announcers brought it up.

Part of my frustration is that I have to watch it. It’s ugly hockey and Martone lighting it up is no major accomplishment to me. He’s also a winger who overhandles the puck and often turns it over. Again, he hasn’t done enough to challenge Hagens beyond piling up points in an easy league to do so. The love affair is basically from his stats and to me it’s a slippery slope.

And I dont put much stock into tournaments. League play and postseason is 90 percent of the evaluation for all players. But head-to-head cannot be ignored no matter the stage, especially between 1OA and any challengers. McKenzie made no mention of Hagens outplaying Martone at the WJSS. It established a baseline and will be relevant when discussing overall bodies of work. Again, if Martone had a hat trick to beat the US, it would literally be front-page news in Canada.

You’re entitled to your opinion but I highly disagree. OHL is still the most skilled league of all CHL leagues, and clears the ncaa by a wide margin. There are 4-5 ncaa teams with stacked rosters, and then the talent level is equivalent to the BCHL, with older players. Canada itself had a couple of down years but even then, it’s only down compared to the dominance they had for so long. We’re starting to see more OHL guys do well in the 21-24 age group now too. Look at McMichael, nobody would have said he’s better than Turcotte, Zegras back in their draft years, but he is now. I watch a lot of OHL hockey and I also watch a lot of NCAA hockey, and the talent level in the OHL is much higher overall. Every league has sloppy play, the ncaa is no exception. A lot of the ncaa games I watch are so low scoring and low event that it’s a snooze fest, as both teams grind each other into the ice with very little talent. Scoring in the OHL is high because there’s so much high end skill and talent, and while I agree the goaltending isn’t where it needs to be, there’s still very good goalies. Carter George would be a top ncaa goalie this year. USA hockey is just becoming incredibly overrated, but it’s showing serious cracks right now. The NTDP hasn’t had much success the last few years. 4 first rounders for America last year compared to the 19 Canadians, and 17 of them being CHL players. OHL is going to have at least 4 guys go in the top 10. And while I still really enjoy ncaa hockey, two of the countries best programs, Michigan and NoDak, have Canadian kids leading their team in scoring. If Hage can lead Michigan and Boisvert can lead NoDak, there’s plenty of OHL guys who would be able to do the same or better.

The OHL was once a great league. That is no longer the case. I called it a joke league compared to what it used to be. Just because it drafts the most players doesn’t mean they’re turning into quality NHL’ers, if they even make it. The WHL to me has always been superior in recent years terms of NHL readiness. The NCAA also has been better in recent years at producing quality NHL talent.

Look at all the top scorers and top rookie scorers since 2018. Less and less OHL representation from those 25 and under. The OHL had great runs in the 2000s and 2010s but it’s really petered off. Most of the NHL’s best OHL-trained players are in their late 20s or in their 30s. This isn’t news — Canadian players are leaving for the U.S. and Americans are staying home to play college. It’s silly to deny the drop in quality when the CHL is being bled white from a lack of revenue, mostly from the sharp decrease in Canadian kids who play hockey in general.

Quality of play in the OHL is terrible. Poor execution, lack of fundamentals, etc. It’s gotten way soft, the pace is dull, and the goaltending is horrific. I watch every league and the OHL is by far the least exciting. Last night I watched a Brampton-Windsor replay and the pace and execution was dreadful. Even the announcers brought it up.

Part of my frustration is that I have to watch it. It’s ugly hockey and Martone lighting it up is no major accomplishment to me. He’s also a winger who overhandles the puck and often turns it over. Again, he hasn’t done enough to challenge Hagens beyond piling up points in an easy league to do so. The love affair is basically from his stats and to me it’s a slippery slope.

And I dont put much stock into tournaments. League play and postseason is 90 percent of the evaluation for all players. But head-to-head cannot be ignored no matter the stage, especially between 1OA and any challengers. McKenzie made no mention of Hagens outplaying Martone at the WJSS. It established a baseline and will be relevant when discussing overall bodies of work. Again, if Martone had a hat trick to beat the US, it would literally be front-page news in Canada.

No Canadians I know care one iota about the WJSS. In fact most don’t even know it happened. It’s a game in the middle of the summer. I agree Hagens had a better game than Martone did, but there were Canadian players who played better than Hagens, and I wouldn’t necessarily say that makes them better prospects than him either.

 

[Leviathan899]

I have to say that I saw all the Kournianos bashing and figured I would look back at all his statements in this thread, ready to pounce on his anti-Canada and anti-OHL. Tough to argue with him once he explains things logically. Very well written and researched, and he does have a point that the OHL has indeed gone downhill, while NCAA continues to rise. Yes Martone is a great prospect, but I can't find any other scouts ranking him above Hagens. Be happy you've got a guy like this that you can read, think about what he says, and look in our Canadian mirror (Hockey Canada is very toxic). I'm sure he's not always right but he doesn't act like a cry baby and actually responds to critiques.

You should look up Reid Boucher and how USA hockey handled that. Just as bad as anything hockey Canada did, if not worse. Not to mention John Vanbiesbrouck.

Yeah. You can make the argument it's probably over-drafted, but calling it a joke, is, well, a joke.

I’d argue it’s under drafted imo. The 2 years NHL teams have to sign CHL players leaves a lot of players who are worth 4-7 round picks undrafted as teams likely know they won’t want to make that decision so soon, so they opt for a Minnesota Hs kid or a USHL kid knowing they have 4 years to decide to sign. You’d see even more OHL kids picked if the same rule applied. It was a rule put in place to counter the NHL-CHL agreement as well as give USA hockey more of an advantage.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Misleading tweet. Harder schedule and shooting 6%.

I think the point of the tweet was to show what company he is keeping, but I look forward to seeing him live (in person!) in Ottawa to have a more in depth look

 

[lokomotiv15]

The OHL was once a great league. That is no longer the case. I called it a joke league compared to what it used to be. Just because it drafts the most players doesn’t mean they’re turning into quality NHL’ers, if they even make it. The WHL to me has always been superior in recent years terms of NHL readiness. The NCAA also has been better in recent years at producing quality NHL talent.

Look at all the top scorers and top rookie scorers since 2018. Less and less OHL representation from those 25 and under. The OHL had great runs in the 2000s and 2010s but it’s really petered off. Most of the NHL’s best OHL-trained players are in their late 20s or in their 30s. This isn’t news — Canadian players are leaving for the U.S. and Americans are staying home to play college. It’s silly to deny the drop in quality when the CHL is being bled white from a lack of revenue, mostly from the sharp decrease in Canadian kids who play hockey in general.

Quality of play in the OHL is terrible. Poor execution, lack of fundamentals, etc. It’s gotten way soft, the pace is dull, and the goaltending is horrific. I watch every league and the OHL is by far the least exciting. Last night I watched a Brampton-Windsor replay and the pace and execution was dreadful. Even the announcers brought it up.

Part of my frustration is that I have to watch it. It’s ugly hockey and Martone lighting it up is no major accomplishment to me. He’s also a winger who overhandles the puck and often turns it over. Again, he hasn’t done enough to challenge Hagens beyond piling up points in an easy league to do so. The love affair is basically from his stats and to me it’s a slippery slope.

And I dont put much stock into tournaments. League play and postseason is 90 percent of the evaluation for all players. But head-to-head cannot be ignored no matter the stage, especially between 1OA and any challengers. McKenzie made no mention of Hagens outplaying Martone at the WJSS. It established a baseline and will be relevant when discussing overall bodies of work. Again, if Martone had a hat trick to beat the US, it would literally be front-page news in Canada.

The OHL still produces the 2nd most players in the NHL after the NCAA (over 20%), while playing in the CHL which produces over 40% of players in the NHL.

People are commenting that you're a scout or analyst, which I will assume is on some godaddy website you payed for and not that someone actually pays you for any insight. Thank god, because I wouldn't want anyone who pays your bills catching that hot take.

The OHL isn't producing quite at the level that it used to with some higher end players deciding to go the USHL to NCAA route, but it's still a top developmental league in the world.

Oh, and Martone is every bit on Hagens level. I'd still pick Hagens 1OA today, but it's more than close and could easily swing in the next half a year.

 

[Fyodorov]

If anything these days, there’s a strong bias in the media and independent scouts to over hype Americans and downplay Canadian kids. See it nearly every year, and the NTDP is a big part of it.

That's absolutely hilarious.

 

[BoneHutson]

Misleading tweet. Harder schedule and shooting 6%.

Yep

 

[mphmiles]

If anything these days, there’s a strong bias in the media and independent scouts to over hype Americans and downplay Canadian kids. See it nearly every year, and the NTDP is a big part of it.

Which NTDP draft picks over the last decade would you say were vastly overhyped?

 

[Wieters]

Beautiful assist from Hagens to Leonard for the game winner.

Hagens' pace of play is a pleasure to watch. He's normally very quick/decisive about getting rid of the puck, but here he holds it for just long enough for Leonard to hit his second gear and create a clear path for the pass. You get the sense watching him that he is always in full control.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

There are currently 17 players who are 26 or younger in the Top-50 in scoring.

8 went the NCAA or NTDP route
5 from Europe
2 from the WHL
1 from the QMJHL
1 from the OHL

Rookie scoring Top-20 (though Sat.)

8 from the NCAA/NTDP
4 from Europe
3 from the WHL
3 from the OHL
2 from the QMJHL

Last year there were 22 in the top-50 at 26 or younger

7 from the NCAA/NTDP
7 from Europe (counting Matthews who aged out of the NTDP)
6 from the OHL (counting Tkachuk who aged out of the NTDP)
2 from the WHL

2023-24 Top-20 rookie scoring

7 from the NCAA/NTDP
4 from the OHL
4 from the WHL
3 from Europe
1 from the USHL
1 from the QMJHL

There is no bias. Just facts.

The OHL is not superior to the NCAA by the simple fact that there isn't a universe where the average 17-year-old defenseman or an 18-year-old goalie from the CHL is better, stronger, faster, smarter, and more developed than the average 22-year-old defenseman or 24-year-old goalie in college. The SCSU team Hagens faced last weekend had over a dozen 22-year-olds and five were 24. How many 23-year-old goalies does Martone face per weekend? If Kitchener plays SCSU 10 times, the Huskies are taking the series without question.

That helps explain why there is the age cutoff for North Americans at the draft. Why can a team draft a triple-overager from Europe but not one from North America? It's the dumbest rule, but one designed partly to ensure more CHL kids are drafted than Europeans and NCAA prospects. A triple-overager in the CHL, i.e., a kid in his third look for the draft, is a rarity to begin with since they're already old enough for an AHL or ECHL contract. Conversely, the NCAA triple-overager is the rule and the exception, and teams know the player is more likely to honor the scholarship and finish his degree before ending up in the same place.

Tyler Boucher was a top-10 pick, albeit a bad one. Still, he went to BU and had 3 points in 17 games. So he quit the team and went to the London Knights and had 14 points in 24 games. Chaz Lucius averaged under a point a game as a frosh at Minnesota, then went to Portland in the Dub and averaged almost three points a game.

Teams drafting more CHL'ers is a recent trend after it bottomed out in 2019 -- the first time the USHL by itself without the NTDP out-drafted the OHL. Since then, we've seen a CHL spike and a dip in Russians, but that has not translated to NHL success. At least not yet. The 2021 OHL class is probably the best of the recent bunch.

Outside of London and maybe Kitchener, the quality in play in the OHL has become sloppy and there seems like there is very little structure with a lot of individualism. The Quebec Remparts under Roy exposed this in 2023 as they were insanely structured while Peterborough hung on for dear life and were only in games because of the goalie. Hamilton had great teams but crumbled in the tournament twice. Saginaw last year was a host team with all that rest, but they were the first OHL team to win it in years. I think London and Oshawa were the last OHL teams to win the Memorial Cup without hosting it and that was almost a decade ago. Not the end-all, be-all but part of the issue with overall quality of play in the OHL. London was a powerhouse but they are professionally structured so winning the MC would have been well deserved.

The college game is faster, meaner, and you get a ton of close games because of the structure and goaltending.

Tonight, 15 of the 56 D1 teams in action scored four or more goals. The OHL had seven, with 16 teams playing. Do the math.

That's why Hagens has 11 points in seven games and Martone has 32 in 15.

So ask the question -- why are the top NCAA players with lesser stats in college scoring more in the NHL than the top OHL-trained players with beefed-up numbers in junior?

 

[Steve Kournianos]

The OHL still produces the 2nd most players in the NHL after the NCAA (over 20%), while playing in the CHL which produces over 40% of players in the NHL.

People are commenting that you're a scout or analyst, which I will assume is on some godaddy website you payed for and not that someone actually pays you for any insight. Thank god, because I wouldn't want anyone who pays your bills catching that hot take.

The OHL isn't producing quite at the level that it used to with some higher end players deciding to go the USHL to NCAA route, but it's still a top developmental league in the world.

Oh, and Martone is every bit on Hagens level. I'd still pick Hagens 1OA today, but it's more than close and could easily swing in the next half a year.

The OHL is a legacy circuit that is losing its luster and relies on its history and past reputation to attract the best from Ontario. The problem is that Ontario's best athletes are no longer guaranteed to play hockey, and those that do are now advised that the NCAA is not only the safer route for financial gain, but is at least equal or better at player development. The OHL no longer has a convincing selling point beyond the kid being able to play close to home. "Look at all the draft picks" doesn't mean a contract is guaranteed.

They had seven of nine first-overall picks between 2007 and 2015 and none since. Hughes and Power were trending toward playing in the OHL and said no thanks. The NHL numbers you cite are heavily slanted toward veterans. A simple scroll through Hockey DB or a look at NHL rosters will show you that most recent OHL draftees are struggling to find a place in the league.

Martone needs to be challenged more. Clearly exploiting a size advantage he'll lose once he graduates to the AHL. Hagens is slowly dictating terms at the NCAA level which is far more impressive. Perhaps a WJC duel would settle it, but that isn't a good indicator of an NHL future.

 

[Hammer Slammer]

 

[coooldude]

I really don't understand the vitriol for contrary opinions. What's the point of these discussions if everyone agrees? I think Steve is making a compelling case. Disagree if you want, but why call him a no talent biased hack?

This debate is hopefully going to keep things really interesting going into June.

 

[montreal]

Hagens Good Chance 11:52
Hagens Assist 15:08

 

[joe66]

There are currently 17 players who are 26 or younger in the Top-50 in scoring.

8 went the NCAA or NTDP route
5 from Europe
2 from the WHL
1 from the QMJHL
1 from the OHL

Rookie scoring Top-20 (though Sat.)

8 from the NCAA/NTDP
4 from Europe
3 from the WHL
3 from the OHL
2 from the QMJHL

Last year there were 22 in the top-50 at 26 or younger

7 from the NCAA/NTDP
7 from Europe (counting Matthews who aged out of the NTDP)
6 from the OHL (counting Tkachuk who aged out of the NTDP)
2 from the WHL

2023-24 Top-20 rookie scoring

7 from the NCAA/NTDP
4 from the OHL
4 from the WHL
3 from Europe
1 from the USHL
1 from the QMJHL

There is no bias. Just facts.

These numbers are off, so its not facts

 

[joe66]

There are currently 17 players who are 26 or younger in the Top-50 in scoring.

8 went the NCAA or NTDP route
5 from Europe
2 from the WHL
1 from the QMJHL
1 from the OHL

Connor McMichael, Marco Rossi, Gabriel Vilardi, Andrei Svechnikov, Nick Suzuki and Cole Perfetti

6 from the ohl (not including late b-days)

 

[wetcoast]

The OHL is a legacy circuit that is losing its luster and relies on its history and past reputation to attract the best from Ontario. The problem is that Ontario's best athletes are no longer guaranteed to play hockey, and those that do are now advised that the NCAA is not only the safer route for financial gain, but is at least equal or better at player development. The OHL no longer has a convincing selling point beyond the kid being able to play close to home. "Look at all the draft picks" doesn't mean a contract is guaranteed.

They had seven of nine first-overall picks between 2007 and 2015 and none since. Hughes and Power were trending toward playing in the OHL and said no thanks. The NHL numbers you cite are heavily slanted toward veterans. A simple scroll through Hockey DB or a look at NHL rosters will show you that most recent OHL draftees are struggling to find a place in the league.

Martone needs to be challenged more. Clearly exploiting a size advantage he'll lose once he graduates to the AHL. Hagens is slowly dictating terms at the NCAA level which is far more impressive. Perhaps a WJC duel would settle it, but that isn't a good indicator of an NHL future.

Martone isn't spending a day in the AHL as he is an OHL prospect and by the time he ages out he will be NHL ready if not sooner.

 

[BKarchitect]

While I see the underlying logic and also am somewhat partial to the NCAA route overall…and still think Hagens is definitely worthy of the #1 pick at this point - and that is unlikely to change…

…the OHL is probably on a pretty solid track as things stand to have 3 of the top 4 or 5 picks in this draft. And while it’s an outlier and yadda yadda…just feels weird to dump on the OHL’s luster when they are about to send Martone, Misa and Schaefer to the lottery podium. I mean…this looks like a loaded CHL crop.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Connor McMichael, Marco Rossi, Gabriel Vilardi, Andrei Svechnikov, Nick Suzuki and Cole Perfetti

6 from the ohl (not including late b-days)

The top 48 scorers have 14 points or more. Only McMichael and Svech have 14 or more. There are 22 players with 13 points after last night, including Rossi, Vilardi, Suzuki, Clarke, and Perfetti.

So the point still stands — There are 16 players 26 or younger in the top 48 in scoring, and 14 weren’t developed in the OHL.

Cut it down to the Top 25, and you have six — three NCAA and three Euros — and none from the OHL.