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F James Hagens - Boston College, NCAA (2025 Draft) Part 2

He's been really good this year but I don't think he's that close to what we saw from Celebrini last year. The vision and passing is elite though, man can he dish it.
 
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montreal said:
He's been really good this year but I don't think he's that close to what we saw from Celebrini last year. The vision and passing is elite though, man can he dish it.
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This is for sure. Very different players, and Celebrini is both more explosive, and a more well rounded offensive game.

Otoh, Hagens is so cerebral. It's unusual for a players' style to affect his team as much as his does. It's pretty nice for him to have a guy like Leonard with him to take lumps.

Completely different development paths. Hagens needs a trainer, but he can figure out the little things, and off-puck play naturally.
 
saintunspecified said:
This is for sure. Very different players, and Celebrini is both more explosive, and a more well rounded offensive game.

Otoh, Hagens is so cerebral. It's unusual for a players' style to affect his team as much as his does. It's pretty nice for him to have a guy like Leonard with him to take lumps.

Completely different development paths. Hagens needs a trainer, but he can figure out the little things, and off-puck play naturally.
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Leonard and Hagens are no longer on a line together for what it’s worth. It’s Hagens, Perrault and Stiga then Gasseau, Leonard and Jellvik. I actually thought Hagens looked a lot better with Perrault and Stiga than having Leonard on that line. It allows for Hagens to carry the puck a lot more and drive the play rather than deferring to Leonard. Hagens looked more assertive this weekend than he has playing with Leonard. Stiga plays with similar aggression and speed as Leonard but isn’t as puck dominant so it seemed to work a bit better. We’ll see if it continues against BU

They’re still on the PP together but Leonard has swapped with Perrault, now playing the bumper role with Perrault up on the left side of the umbrella
 
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So many people are going to look so bad once Hagens gets to the NHL and what we’ve seen at literally every international tournament over the years that he’s better than all these challengers they put in front of him is once again true again (as it has been this year once again, but some people can’t properly adjust for players in different leagues).

A true intelligence test that some people are failing this year (and some willfully fail it for their own partisan reasons).
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
So many people are going to look so bad once Hagens gets to the NHL and what we’ve seen at literally every international tournament over the years that he’s better than all these challengers they put in front of him is once again true again (as it has been this year once again, but some people can’t properly adjust for players in different leagues).

A true intelligence test that some people are failing this year (and some willfully fail it for their own partisan reasons).
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You're a smart / knowledgeable hockey guy, PB, but you have to admit Hagens has not set the world on fire in his draft year.
 
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ORRFForever said:
You're a smart / knowledgeable hockey guy, PB, but you have to admit Hagens has not set the world on fire in his draft year.
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So the consensus 1OA coming into the year has to set the world on fire?

He's been more than decent. Has years and years being one of the elite young prospects in the sport.

In fact, no one has set the world on fire from the 2025 draft this year, yet many of you want to pick on the most proven member of the draft class. I wonder why that is.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
So the consensus 1OA coming into the year has to set the world on fire?

He's been more than decent. Has years and years being one of the elite young prospects in the sport.

In fact, no one has set the world on fire from the 2025 draft this year, yet many of you want to pick on the most proven member of the draft class. I wonder why that is.
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I'm sure Canadians want to see a 1OA who is Canadian. I know I do.

Still, I think most people expected more from Hagens.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
So the consensus 1OA coming into the year has to set the world on fire?
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Yes, obviously? Ultimately it’s a projection rather than a power ranking but if draft status was set by a player’s d-2 and d-1 performances than we would have seen Aatu Raty, Shane Wright, and Aron Kiviharju go first. Whether you consider if any of the top players has « set the world on fire », that’s up to you and that’s your opinion. But I cannot remember a single 1OA in the last 12 or so years that has become the best player on draft day in their respective class by entering through the side door with a declining opinion of them
 
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
So the consensus 1OA coming into the year has to set the world on fire?

He's been more than decent. Has years and years being one of the elite young prospects in the sport.

In fact, no one has set the world on fire from the 2025 draft this year, yet many of you want to pick on the most proven member of the draft class. I wonder why that is.
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Do you think he's better than Misa, and if so - why?
 
Mathieukferland said:
Yes, obviously?
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Why is it obvious?

Lighting the world on fire suggests something historic or record breaking. That's something that doesn't happen very often. If it's an expectation, it shouldn't be happening every year.

The last two 1OA's might've lit the world on fire. 2022? Slafkovsky absolutely did not light the world on fire. 2021? Power didn't light the world on fire. Lafreniere did in 2020. 2019? Hughes kind of did. Dahlin? Sure, I guess. 2017? Hischier did not light the world on fire.

So of the last 8 years, 5 did and 3 didn't. Not exactly a certainty.

Mathieukferland said:
Ultimately it’s a projection rather than a power ranking but if draft status was set by a player’s d-2 and d-1 performances than we would have seen Aatu Raty, Shane Wright, and Aron Kiviharju go first. Whether you consider if any of the top players has « set the world on fire », that’s up to you and that’s your opinion. But I cannot remember a single 1OA in the last 12 or so years that has become the best player on draft day in their respective class by entering through the side door with a declining opinion of them
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Okay well, I just gave you three examples from the last 8 years that ended up 1OA without lighting the world on fire. And of the 8, one of them is pretty much the exact same situation as Hagens playing their draft year in the NCAA. Only one other 1OA in that span played their draft year in the NCAA.

We're comparing players in different leagues, so it's a messy comparison. I must say that I truly don't know how any player who is going to be picked top 5 wouldn't put up huge totals in a junior league in their draft year, if that's what your definition of lighting the world on fire is.

I'm not sure what Aatu Raty, Shane Wright, and Aron Kiviharju have to do with this discussion. These aren't remotely similar situations. Two of those players didn't make the first round.
 
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EbonyRaptor said:
Do you think he's better than Misa, and if so - why?
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To begin with, Misa couldn't make his own country's world junior team. A world junior team that lost to Latvia and lost three of their five games. Hagens was one of the best players at the tournament in leading his team to Gold.

We're comparing players in different leagues. Hagens was the leading scorer in his junior league last year, and decided to go play a higher level of hockey after two years. Misa was nowhere close to the leading scorer in his junior hockey league after two years (his PPG actually declined from his first year). He stayed in a junior league. Where would Hagens be if he played in the OHL? Probably would lead the league in scoring, as he did last year in a similar level junior league.

Has Hagens been better? You're comparing apples and oranges. Misa has higher raw totals. He's also playing drastically worse competition in a different environment. Hagens has had international success on the highest stage for this age group that Misa wasn't good enough to make. And whether it's a draw or Misa has been slightly better this year or Hagens has been slightly better, Hagens went into the season with a much higher reputation. Misa would've had to have a drastically better season that he hasn't had to overtake Hagens, logically speaking.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
To begin with, Misa couldn't make his own country's world junior team. A world junior team that lost to Latvia and lost three of their five games. Hagens was one of the best players at the tournament in leading his team to Gold.

We're comparing players in different leagues. Hagens was the leading scorer in his junior league last year, and decided to go play a higher level of hockey after two years. Misa was nowhere close to the leading scorer in his junior hockey league after two years (his PPG actually declined from his first year). He stayed in a junior league. Where would Hagens be if he played in the OHL? Probably would lead the league in scoring, as he did last year in a similar level junior league.

Has Hagens been better? You're comparing apples and oranges. Misa has higher raw totals. He's also playing drastically worse competition in a different environment. Hagens has had international success on the highest stage for this age group that Misa wasn't good enough to make. And whether it's a draw or Misa has been slightly better this year or Hagens has been slightly better, Hagens went into the season with a much higher reputation. Misa would've had to have a drastically better season that he hasn't had to overtake Hagens, logically speaking.
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Rather than using using the Team Canada Selection Committee not selecting Misa as an indictment - maybe that's more on that idiot committee than on Misa.

And using your opinion that the USHL is better than the OHL - that's just like your opinion man ...

But seriously - my question was meant for you to describe why you think Hagens is better - things like skating, vision, IQ, puck handling, shooting, physicality, defense, etc.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
Why is it obvious?

Lighting the world on fire suggests something historic or record breaking. That's something that doesn't happen very often. If it's an expectation, it shouldn't be happening every year.

The last two 1OA's might've lit the world on fire. 2022? Slafkovsky absolutely did not light the world on fire. 2021? Power didn't light the world on fire. Lafreniere did in 2020. 2019? Hughes kind of did. Dahlin? Sure, I guess. 2017? Hischier did not light the world on fire.

So of the last 8 years, 5 did and 3 didn't. Not exactly a certainty.


Okay well, I just gave you three examples from the last 8 years that ended up 1OA without lighting the world on fire. And of the 8, one of them is pretty much the exact same situation as Hagens playing their draft year in the NCAA. Only one other 1OA in that span played their draft year in the NCAA.

We're comparing players in different leagues, so it's a messy comparison. I must say that I truly don't know how any player who is going to be picked top 5 wouldn't put up huge totals in a junior league in their draft year, if that's what your definition of lighting the world on fire is.

I'm not sure what Aatu Raty, Shane Wright, and Aron Kiviharju have to do with this discussion. These aren't remotely similar situations. Two of those players didn't make the first round.
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Ok, I won’t try to interpret what the original poster meant by "light the world on fire", but I guess the overarching theme I was trying démonstrate is, even when it comes to Slafkovksy, Power, or Hischier, the consensus opinion around them has increased or become more positive in their draft year. None of them were record breaking, yes, but none of them were d-1 world beaters whose opinions and consensus decreased in their DY.

The reason I brought up those three is because they were the consensus number 1 for their respective draft at some point within the last 18 months before their draft, and they very much did not light the world on fire, and as a result they fell; meaning that what players do in their d-2 and d-1 isn’t the end all be all of who teams will regard the highest on draft day
 
EbonyRaptor said:
Rather than using using the Team Canada Selection Committee not selecting Misa as an indictment - maybe that's more on that idiot committee than on Misa.

And using your opinion that the USHL is better than the OHL - that's just like your opinion man ...

But seriously - my question was meant for you to describe why you think Hagens is better - things like skating, vision, IQ, puck handling, shooting, physicality, defense, etc.
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I think he meant the NCAA, which is better than the OHL. USHL doesn't come close but the U18's do play a lot of college teams.

The guy clearly is a Hagens homer regardless.
 
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