F James Hagens - Boston College, NCAA (2025 Draft) Part 2

[Juxtaposer]

Time to rant.

I really don't get what Brown's doing with Hagens in general and I think it's hurt his draft stock. I don't think Hagens' draft stock really matters that much to his long term development (and it'll probably be in his best interest if he's not picked by say Chicago), but it is still tough to watch.

The Perreault-Hagens-Leonard line never clicked. They could still be productive, but that's because they're all ridiculously talented and smart. And yet, it took over half the season to break them up.

I like the Perreault-Hagens-Stiga line well enough. It would not have been my first choice, as I'd try Stiga-Hagens-Leonard, but that's nitpicking. The Berard-Hagens-Stiga line is beyond dumb. Berard is not a top 6 forward. Vote is clearly the best option for a top 6 forward with Jellvik injured. I'd do Vote-Gasseau-Leonard and keep the Perreault-Hagens-Stiga line together, but there are plenty of other combos worth trying.

I haven't seen the past couple of games, so I haven't seen Hagens on PP2. But to my eye, he is not the issue. I think PP1's issues largely stem from their PPQB. I want to see them try Michael Hagens or Minnetian on PP1.

All of this has limited Hagens both from a production standpoint and from a performance standpoint which has people questioning his abilities.

And none of this gets into what I think Brown's biggest weakness which his inability to make in-game adjustments. But that's not really for this thread.

Fully agree on Brown, no question. I don't think the situation at BC ended up as good a fit in reality as it did on paper. And I've been griping about BC not having a good PPQB since last year (Eamon Powell is Not It and Gustafsson isn't much better).

Still, you'd want to see a #1 overall caliber prospect overcome that.

 

[clevelandcane]

I think he meant the NCAA, which is better than the OHL. USHL doesn't come close but the U18's do play a lot of college teams.

The guy clearly is a Hagens homer regardless.

Or he just thinks Hagens is 1 overall.

 

[wickedwitch]

BC had the second best powerplay percentage in the country last year, so that would challenge the idea that Brown's system can't work.

But that is with different players. This system isn't fatally flawed, but it clearly doesn't work with these players. A good coach would adapt their system to their current players.

 

[Wieters]

But that is with different players. This system isn't fatally flawed, but it clearly doesn't work with these players. A good coach would adapt their system to their current players.

Obviously Greg Brown is not beyond reproach, but I think it's overzealous to say he's not a good coach. All of your critiques are about his deployment of forwards and the offensive special teams and neglect to treat the defensive side of the ice. Laser focusing on the offense only is pretty common for fans to do in any sport, but it is an incomplete treatment when discussing a coach or a team as a whole. BC is an elite team in terms of shots allowed, goals, and penalty kills. Brown himself was a defenseman, so it would make sense that the identity of his teams is going to be defensive rather than offensive. He's in his third season as the coach at BC and fourth season as a head coach at any level, so maybe he is still figuring things out on the offensive side. But Brown has led the best team in the country for the majority of his tenure as head coach, and that isn't simply due to recruiting.

Personally, I think much ado is being made about Hagens as a result of the subjective/idiosyncratic expectations people have as to what a "1OA" is supposed to look like, which people almost entirely base on box score production. This in turn leads to scapegoating of the coach or his teammates or Hagens himself. Add onto that the nationalistic dynamics and people are wringing their hands over concerns that probably don't exist outside the confines of hfboards. Hagens is a productive, pivotal, and trusted player on the best team in the country as one of the youngest players in the country. The advanced metrics--which are more reliable than the "eye test" that many here trip over themselves to declare Hagens has failed--seem to corroborate that Hagens is performing the way you would want to see a 1C perform. Warping that into a lamentation about Hagens and how the coaching staff has let him down is getting lost in the sauce. Not addressing any one poster specifically, just a general comment on the discourse around Hagens.

 

[wickedwitch]

Obviously Greg Brown is not beyond reproach, but I think it's overzealous to say he's not a good coach. All of your critiques are about his deployment of forwards and the offensive special teams and neglect to treat the defensive side of the ice. Laser focusing on the offense only is pretty common for fans to do in any sport, but it is an incomplete treatment when discussing a coach or a team as a whole. BC is an elite team in terms of shots allowed, goals, and penalty kills. Brown himself was a defenseman, so it would make sense that the identity of his teams is going to be defensive rather than offensive. He's in his third season as the coach at BC and fourth season as a head coach at any level, so maybe he is still figuring things out on the offensive side. But Brown has led the best team in the country for the majority of his tenure as head coach, and that isn't simply due to recruiting.

Personally, I think much ado is being made about Hagens as a result of the subjective/idiosyncratic expectations people have as to what a "1OA" is supposed to look like, which people almost entirely base on box score production. This in turn leads to scapegoating of the coach or his teammates or Hagens himself. Add onto that the nationalistic dynamics and people are wringing their hands over concerns that probably don't exist outside the confines of hfboards. Hagens is a productive, pivotal, and trusted player on the best team in the country as one of the youngest players in the country. The advanced metrics--which are more reliable than the "eye test" that many here trip over themselves to declare Hagens has failed--seem to corroborate that Hagens is performing the way you would want to see a 1C perform. Warping that into a lamentation about Hagens and how the coaching staff has let him down is getting lost in the sauce.

Oh, I love what he's doing with the defense. And I have noticed it. It's incredibly impressive. And he deserves a ton of credit for it. But the defense needs to be balanced with the offense. And the PP is obviously completely separate.

I still think Hagens will be a 1C. I've never written otherwise. But I think his strengths are being hidden less because of a defensive system, but because of poor offensive deployment. The good defensive system is helping BC win. The mediocre offense and terrible PP is not helping BC win and not helping Hagens.

And I'm not saying Brown is doomed as a coach, just that he has very real issues now. Like anybody in his situation, there are going to be struggles. It's about how he responds to those struggles that will determine if he can be a successful college coach. But unfortunately, that response is not likely to be on a timescale that helps Hagens draft position.

 

[Wieters]

Oh, I love what he's doing with the defense. And I have noticed it. It's incredibly impressive. And he deserves a ton of credit for it. But the defense needs to be balanced with the offense. And the PP is obviously completely separate.

I still think Hagens will be a 1C. I've never written otherwise. But I think his strengths are being hidden less because of a defensive system, but because of poor offensive deployment. The good defensive system is helping BC win. The mediocre offense and terrible PP is not helping BC win and not helping Hagens.

And I'm not saying Brown is doomed as a coach, just that he has very real issues now. Like anybody in his situation, there are going to be struggles. It's about how he responds to those struggles that will determine if he can be a successful college coach. But unfortunately, that response is not likely to be on a timescale that helps Hagens draft position.

That's all fair enough. Just wanted to give a complete picture of Brown and Hagens. For what it's worth, I have been impressed with Hagens' 200-foot game and feel it is underrated in the discussion surrounding him, so maybe BC's defensive focus isn't all for naught if it rubs off on Hagens.

I would imagine Hagens' floor is third overall with a perfectly good shot that he regains the top spot if he and the team have a big NCAA tournament. And going into this season, it was pretty well accepted that there was competition for the first overall spot. So despite a lot of the discussion on here, how much has really changed? Hagens remains an elite prospect who still has a chance at being the top overall prospect of his draft class. There might be small machinations that have changed, but his general trajectory remains pretty steady.