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F Ivan Miroshnichenko (2022, 20th, WSH)

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rightyright said:
So whats your point here? All but you looking on stats and don’t beyond that?! Atas has already said everything, Michkov past the first test against young men, something Miro don’t done yet. There is simply no Point at all to believe that Miro will look better against Pros than Michkov at least today. Michkov has been too dominant at every level for that. And your only example to back up your argument is a 19 year old Jack Hughes...
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You are starting to now make dishonest arguments.

There were people arguing about stats. Look above. It's there. Anyone can see that.

I claim that we need to look beyond stats to analyze the two players. There's a chance Miroshnichenko's skillset might project better.

Now you claim I haven't seen Michkov play because I say this analysis should involve other measures.

What's your point with this? Is it to play forum police or try to make a good-faith argument about what I've said is wrong?

And how has Miroshnichenko not passed the test that Michkov has? I agree Michkov has passed a test, but Miroshnichenko has 10 points in 11 games in that same league, and he's shooting 4.2%.

Michkov is averaging 4.36 shots per game, Miroshnichenko's averaging 4.35 shots per game. Michkov is shooting 15.6%, Miroshnichenko is shooting 4.2%. Thats the difference right there statistically between their goals per game numbers, and Miroshnichenko is averaging more assists per game.

Incoming "you can't use stats" argument because you told other people to not only look at stats.

How is my only argument Jack Hughes? Have there not been countless players who set scoring records and dominated at junior levels for their games to not translate to the same extent in pro hockey? I could start listing these players, if you want. And you have put yourselves in a corner. Either Michkov dominates every league he plays at right away or he doesn't live up to your standards. You have made it so that other really good players cannot possibly end up as good or better than him.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
I am not ready to say Michkov will be better than Datsyuk. Kaprizov, maybe he will be. I would say though that Kaprizov is a different type of player. And my point is not that Michkov won't be very good. I think he will be, but there are countless examples of players whose games were better suited to dominating kids than dominating professionals. I said the same thing about Jack Hughes, and I got a lot of criticism. I said he was the best junior player I've ever seen. He set all types of records, and then he can't even score 30 points in his first NHL season. He's since become a good NHL'er this season, but thats besides the point. He's not dominating to that same extent in the NHL.

There is absolutely a difference between dominating and setting records in junior and doing anything approximating that in professional hockey. Thats why I suggest that Miroshnichenko might not have as hard of a time adapting his game to playing against professionals. He has pro size and speed already. And he's playing very well in the MHL, given his age. Michkov is playing better, but they are both playing well enough that we can say they are both dominating, given their age. Does it really matter that one is dominating a little more than the other? As I've said, there's a threshold where the degree of statistical domination doesn't matter as much and you have to look to the skillsets for the differences in how the players project.



You are making my main point for me. McDavid was called generational because he had generational speed, he had generational playmaking, he had generational skill, generational hockey sense, and he's a 6'1 center with an incredible drive for playing the game. Let's say Michkov has generational skill, hockey sense, playmaking, shot, and an incredible drive for playing the game. I'm not sure he even has all of that, but I'll concede it for the sake of this argument. He's still missing McDavid's speed and size, let alone position (generational players are usually always centers, except Ovechkin).

McDavid's stats were a byproduct of being generational. They were not what made him generational. There are just as many people calling Michkov generational as called Shane Wright generational. And I told them the same thing. If you think his skillset compares favorably to McDavid, call him generational, but don't make some argument that centers around how he's dominating kids or statistically has similar or better numbers. All that tells us is he's going to be a very good hockey player. It doesn't tell us he's going to be generational. Generational is a Lionel Messi, Lebron James, Roger Federer type of athlete. It's not reserved for someone whose very good but has flaws in their game that will keep them from being the best at the absolute highest levels of their sport.
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You probably haven't seen enough of Michkov. I mean, Crosby didn't have McDavid's speed either and still people started to call him generational, when he was even younger, than McDavid or Michkov. Michkov is pretty similar to Crosby in his skillset (and Matvei always calls Crosby as his favorite player), he's just a winger, not a center.
 
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Point is I simply don´t like comparision to "will be better overall player than Datsyuk" to a kid who is more than 2 years into the his draft year. As a Russian you must even better know how good Datsyuk was. As a probably the best two-way forward in the league of his generation he added also productivity, in 4 straight years he ended with 87, 87, 97, 97 points. So better overall player than Datsyuk looks like how? It probably must be perennial 100+ point producer...

Will be Michkov THAT good?
I just think it´s too early about 2023 draft prospect to write he will be a surefire top 3 NHL forward. That´s my point.
And yes, me personally is also very high on him, also think he has a good chance will be a star, but this is simply too much, too early.
 
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Kshahdoo said:
Probably a right deal, he isn't going to be NHL ready earlier, than 2024 anyway. 20 year is about right age to enter the NHL for him. Of course, if he's good enough.
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I think he might have been able to play in the NHL in his D+2. we will see. I have no issues with the extension, though.
 
Excellent deal. Two years after being drafted. Exactly the right amount where if he develops really well he should be NHL ready. If he needs more time, he can sign further for another year or two.
 
KaprizovSaveUs said:
I think he might have been able to play in the NHL in his D+2. we will see. I have no issues with the extension, though.
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Look at almost all the successful players out of Russia. They come over after they've been really good in the KHL. The question should not be when he can take an NHL shift. It should be when he can step into the lineup, impact the game, and be a fixture in an NHL top six right away. You absolutely don't want a Kravtsov situation or the situation it looks like we'll see with Podkolzin.
 
Kshahdoo said:
Probably a right deal, he isn't going to be NHL ready earlier, than 2024 anyway. 20 year is about right age to enter the NHL for him. Of course, if he's good enough.
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If you know the KHL by-laws, you can not be surprised by the length of this contract. It is a standard contract in the KHL for 17 y guy. It happens every year & year.

The First Professional Contract shall be executed (better wording would be "signed") by the Hockey Player not earlier than the year when he is 17 years old, while the term of such Contract shall expire on April 30 of the year such Player is 20 years old unless otherwise stipulated by the KHL Legal Regulations.
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No US visa for him, so he's probably missing the U18 world juniors. Too bad, I was really looking forward to seeing him at the international level against older opponents.
 
I wonder how often this happens. I don’t remember any other prospect barred from entering the country of U-18 championship. I also know a girl with a crystal clear reputation who couldn’t go to study in a US college despite being accepted but she couldn’t even get a visa - I want to know what you have to do to get blacklisted after receiving one.
 
Without knowing the reason, you can't really form an opinion on this.

It's a shame for the player's ability to play hockey for his country and probably also for scouts that wanted to watch him play. Maybe there's a good reason the US government is barring him from entry, and maybe there's not.

But if this is now two times, does that effect his draft stock for the 2022 draft? If he's going to have problems with entry to the United States, playing in the NHL would be a major problem.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
Without knowing the reason, you can't really form an opinion on this.

It's a shame for the player's ability to play hockey for his country and probably also for scouts that wanted to watch him play. Maybe there's a good reason the US government is barring him from entry, and maybe there's not.

But if this is now two times, does that effect his draft stock for the 2022 draft? If he's going to have problems with entry to the United States, playing in the NHL would be a major problem.
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Getting American visa is a big adventure in Russia. Big bizzare adventure. They can give visa to a dude and not to his girfriend. They can give visa to his girlfriend and not to a dude. They can give visa to a mother and not to a son. They can give visa to a son and not to a mother.

People say, Americans probably use some kind of a randomizer to specify, who's worthy of their visa and who isn't. It's kinda joke, but I won't be surprised at all, if it's not. And yeah, they never explain anything.

Another interesting thing, all those hockey prospect experts. They follow Miroshnichenko for sure, they follow WJC U18 for sure as well. Not a single one of them says anything about the situation. You say, they don't wanna talk about it without having any information? Yeah, when that Panarin/Nazarov shit happened, nobody had any information as well, and there were thousands of people talking about it, all those experts were ahead of them all. "Putin's revenge, blah-blah". They all keep silent now. Why, I wonder...
 
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