F Ivan Demidov - SKA St. Petersburg, KHL (2024, 5th, MTL)

[Vincent01]

Here are some facts for you:

1. He does play over 10 minutes in most games.
2. Not only that, he still averages about 11 minutes per game meaning the games where he plays a lot of minutes outweigh those where he played 3-4 which has been the case sometimes. Sometimes he doesn't play almost at all but in those other games, he plays a legitimate top-6 role.
3. Not only does he play a top-6 role in those games, but he thrives in them, which was the point of my original post that started this. As outlined by the poster you were referring to, Demidov is close to PPG in those games.
4. Just because you find those facts hard to take for you or you go out of your way to misunderstand it somehow doesn't make my "take" (which is really just outlining some facts, I'm hardly making any kind of statement here) wrong and certainly does not make me feel embarrassed in any way.
5. Just because fans of every fan base always want their prospect to be the greatest, play all the minutes, and whenever they don't do so, it's bad, I don't see anything else but load management going on with Demidov. Otherwise, he is in a great environment where he is productive and constantly getting big league experience. Ducks did a similar thing with Leo Carlsson after bringing it over (as in extreme load management) and somehow nobody was up in arms about it.

Just because you and, I assume, many Montreal fans are unhappy with this, doesn't make your "take" about it objective. In that, the poster to whom I wrote my "embarrassing" reply was just factually wrong about it. I thought, if "the truth" was so much on your side, it wouldn't need any exaggeration.

Funny saying others are not being objective while assuming that Demidov plays a top 6 role most of the games.

There wasn't a single game where he was in the top 6 most used forward for SKA all year.

 

[Petes2424]

Lots of talk about how SKA uses kids, etc. There’s lots of politics in the KHL, as well as certain ways teams do contracts, etc. SKA has their own ways compared to other teams as well. They have no problem playing underhanded games with young players who are going to leave soon for the NHL.

When it comes to the Demidov, Michkov and Buchelnikov’s, they simply don’t trust young, very skilled players (with NHL aspirations) to commit to the systems they play, and they also play lots of head games with kids. Telling them they’re not good enough to leave yet, etc. Poor Buchelnikov got sent to Siberia last year, and finally worked his way out of SKA altogether this past summer. A kid that was very loyal to SKA too.

Demidov’s issue with SKA is this. SKA knows these high-end Russian kids have made this agreement with themselves, their families, and the KHL too, that they will stay in the KHL until they’re ready to leave for the NHL. Not to play in the AHL, but to walk right into the NHL. They’ve made this agreement basically, so the Putin Rules weren’t put in place. Rules that would’ve forced them to play in the KHL for 5 years before leaving.

So they’re playing with Demidov’s head some. Making him question if he is good enough to jump this year. If he doesn’t think he is, they’ll then demand he sign a 2 year deal, which is pretty standard to get more money, but the problem is, SKA is so unpredictable, they may not let him void that 2nd year.

Guaranteed, if he had a year left after this, he’d be playing a whole lot more right now.

If it comes to him making that decision. Deciding he needs that extra year in the KHL cause he’s scared Montreal will scratch him, or staple him to the end of the bench, his best bet is to do what Buchelnikov did this past summer.

Basically force a trade to another team, that will give him more money for next year, and allow him to void the final year, if he thinks he’s good enough to then walk directly into the NHL. If he doesn’t, that team ends up with Demidov for two years.

That’s what Buchelnikkv was able to do last summer, when SKA wanted to control his loan, and then try forcing him to sign another two year deal after this year, hoping Buchelnikov didn’t do what he’s done this season. Which is basically prove he’s ready to come over.

You have to be careful though. It can backfire a bit too. Look at Khusnutdinov. He should be in the AHL right now but Minnesota agreed he’d play in the NHL this year if he voided and came over. These kids have that leverage, unlike a NA or Swede.

I think Michkov just drove them so crazy, and made them look bad, they just let him void out. Usually SKA gets something in return for letting a kid void. They do play dirty.

Whether they’re playing dirty with Demidov’s playing time, to try making sure he stays another 2 years, we’ll see. For him to get more money next year, they will get that 2nd year. All teams do it. It’s how they structure contracts. SKA does it to try keeping kids. Other teams do it, to get the kid for a year, and hope the kid doesn’t think he’s ready to leave for the NHL. In Buchelnikov’s case now, he doesn’t have to deal with SKA, trying to void that 2nd year, as he’ll likely do coming up here. Making this his final KHL year. Assuming Detroit agrees he’ll be in the NHL next year and no AHL time. If he stays, then Vityaz made out like bandits for two years.

These top Russian kids have that leverage and they use it. Personally, I think Demidov shouldn’t waste his time staying another year, but he’s gonna get all sorts of pressure to. If he does, he needs to at least make sure, he’s not playing for SKA next season.

Force a trade to a team that’s gonna let him do his thing, then void that 2nd year. My guess is, Montreal has already told him, he’s gonna play in the NHL next year. It’s gonna be up to him, if he thinks he’s ready to contribute Day One. If they weren’t playing these games with him, he’d have a lot more confidence making that decision.

Anyone trying to pretend what SKA is doing, means Demidov is somehow not a great prospect, that’s just silly. He will have to prove what every Russian kid has to coming over. That he can create space in traffic. He’s a natural C though, so like Buchelnikov, it shouldn’t be a problem. Michkov was a natural winger. They bust a lot more, but he answered those questiions the first day he stepped into a regular season NHL game. Demidov and Buchelnikov will still have to answer that question but the bust factor is much less, as they are natural Cs.

 

[Flynn84]

He’s a natural C though, so like Buchelnikov, it shouldn’t be a problem. Michkov was a natural winger. They bust a lot more, but he answered those questiions the first day he stepped into a regular season NHL game. Demidov and Buchelnikov will still have to answer that question but the bust factor is much less, as they are natural Cs.

WHAT

 

[Star Platinum]

I agree that the odds of Demidov becoming an elite player are higher. But I do think Levshunov has #1 potential and the supply of right handed defensemen with his skills is incredibly low. It's just easier to find a scoring winger than an all around defenseman.

Maybe he does, but he's not exactly killing it on offense in the AHL as of yet. But I don't watch AHL games, so maybe he looks better than his stats reflect.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

Anyone trying to pretend what SKA is doing, means Demidov is somehow not a great prospect, that’s just silly. He will have to prove what every Russian kid has to coming over. That he can create space in traffic. He’s a natural C though, so like Buchelnikov, it shouldn’t be a problem. Michkov was a natural winger. They bust a lot more, but he answered those questiions the first day he stepped into a regular season NHL game. Demidov and Buchelnikov will still have to answer that question but the bust factor is much less, as they are natural Cs.

You think Demidov can become a C in the NHL ? that could be great for us

 

[jfhabs]

Lots of talk about how SKA uses kids, etc. There’s lots of politics in the KHL, as well as certain ways teams do contracts, etc. SKA has their own ways compared to other teams as well. They have no problem playing underhanded games with young players who are going to leave soon for the NHL.

When it comes to the Demidov, Michkov and Buchelnikov’s, they simply don’t trust young, very skilled players (with NHL aspirations) to commit to the systems they play, and they also play lots of head games with kids. Telling them they’re not good enough to leave yet, etc. Poor Buchelnikov got sent to Siberia last year, and finally worked his way out of SKA altogether this past summer. A kid that was very loyal to SKA too.

Demidov’s issue with SKA is this. SKA knows these high-end Russian kids have made this agreement with themselves, their families, and the KHL too, that they will stay in the KHL until they’re ready to leave for the NHL. Not to play in the AHL, but to walk right into the NHL. They’ve made this agreement basically, so the Putin Rules weren’t put in place. Rules that would’ve forced them to play in the KHL for 5 years before leaving.

So they’re playing with Demidov’s head some. Making him question if he is good enough to jump this year. If he doesn’t think he is, they’ll then demand he sign a 2 year deal, which is pretty standard to get more money, but the problem is, SKA is so unpredictable, they may not let him void that 2nd year.

Guaranteed, if he had a year left after this, he’d be playing a whole lot more right now.

If it comes to him making that decision. Deciding he needs that extra year in the KHL cause he’s scared Montreal will scratch him, or staple him to the end of the bench, his best bet is to do what Buchelnikov did this past summer.

Basically force a trade to another team, that will give him more money for next year, and allow him to void the final year, if he thinks he’s good enough to then walk directly into the NHL. If he doesn’t, that team ends up with Demidov for two years.

That’s what Buchelnikkv was able to do last summer, when SKA wanted to control his loan, and then try forcing him to sign another two year deal after this year, hoping Buchelnikov didn’t do what he’s done this season. Which is basically prove he’s ready to come over.

You have to be careful though. It can backfire a bit too. Look at Khusnutdinov. He should be in the AHL right now but Minnesota agreed he’d play in the NHL this year if he voided and came over. These kids have that leverage, unlike a NA or Swede.

I think Michkov just drove them so crazy, and made them look bad, they just let him void out. Usually SKA gets something in return for letting a kid void. They do play dirty.

Whether they’re playing dirty with Demidov’s playing time, to try making sure he stays another 2 years, we’ll see. For him to get more money next year, they will get that 2nd year. All teams do it. It’s how they structure contracts. SKA does it to try keeping kids. Other teams do it, to get the kid for a year, and hope the kid doesn’t think he’s ready to leave for the NHL. In Buchelnikov’s case now, he doesn’t have to deal with SKA, trying to void that 2nd year, as he’ll likely do coming up here. Making this his final KHL year. Assuming Detroit agrees he’ll be in the NHL next year and no AHL time. If he stays, then Vityaz made out like bandits for two years.

These top Russian kids have that leverage and they use it. Personally, I think Demidov shouldn’t waste his time staying another year, but he’s gonna get all sorts of pressure to. If he does, he needs to at least make sure, he’s not playing for SKA next season.

Force a trade to a team that’s gonna let him do his thing, then void that 2nd year. My guess is, Montreal has already told him, he’s gonna play in the NHL next year. It’s gonna be up to him, if he thinks he’s ready to contribute Day One. If they weren’t playing these games with him, he’d have a lot more confidence making that decision.

Anyone trying to pretend what SKA is doing, means Demidov is somehow not a great prospect, that’s just silly. He will have to prove what every Russian kid has to coming over. That he can create space in traffic. He’s a natural C though, so like Buchelnikov, it shouldn’t be a problem. Michkov was a natural winger. They bust a lot more, but he answered those questiions the first day he stepped into a regular season NHL game. Demidov and Buchelnikov will still have to answer that question but the bust factor is much less, as they are natural Cs.

I think he has proven he's ready this year. I've watched maybe 7-8 games and he's the most dangerous offensive player on the ice most of the time. Sure, defensively, he's not a Selke player, but he's decent (he's not cheating like Michkov was either).

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Better to build Championship winning teams with two way defensemen than one way wingers, all other things being equal.

Demidov might have more star upside, but if all they are is a 50-60 point winger and a 3D then you’re probably taking the 3D.

 

[Zine]

Lots of talk about how SKA uses kids, etc. There’s lots of politics in the KHL, as well as certain ways teams do contracts, etc. SKA has their own ways compared to other teams as well. They have no problem playing underhanded games with young players who are going to leave soon for the NHL.

When it comes to the Demidov, Michkov and Buchelnikov’s, they simply don’t trust young, very skilled players (with NHL aspirations) to commit to the systems they play, and they also play lots of head games with kids. Telling them they’re not good enough to leave yet, etc. Poor Buchelnikov got sent to Siberia last year, and finally worked his way out of SKA altogether this past summer. A kid that was very loyal to SKA too.

Demidov’s issue with SKA is this. SKA knows these high-end Russian kids have made this agreement with themselves, their families, and the KHL too, that they will stay in the KHL until they’re ready to leave for the NHL. Not to play in the AHL, but to walk right into the NHL. They’ve made this agreement basically, so the Putin Rules weren’t put in place. Rules that would’ve forced them to play in the KHL for 5 years before leaving.

So they’re playing with Demidov’s head some. Making him question if he is good enough to jump this year. If he doesn’t think he is, they’ll then demand he sign a 2 year deal, which is pretty standard to get more money, but the problem is, SKA is so unpredictable, they may not let him void that 2nd year.

Guaranteed, if he had a year left after this, he’d be playing a whole lot more right now.

If it comes to him making that decision. Deciding he needs that extra year in the KHL cause he’s scared Montreal will scratch him, or staple him to the end of the bench, his best bet is to do what Buchelnikov did this past summer.

Basically force a trade to another team, that will give him more money for next year, and allow him to void the final year, if he thinks he’s good enough to then walk directly into the NHL. If he doesn’t, that team ends up with Demidov for two years.

That’s what Buchelnikkv was able to do last summer, when SKA wanted to control his loan, and then try forcing him to sign another two year deal after this year, hoping Buchelnikov didn’t do what he’s done this season. Which is basically prove he’s ready to come over.

You have to be careful though. It can backfire a bit too. Look at Khusnutdinov. He should be in the AHL right now but Minnesota agreed he’d play in the NHL this year if he voided and came over. These kids have that leverage, unlike a NA or Swede.

I think Michkov just drove them so crazy, and made them look bad, they just let him void out. Usually SKA gets something in return for letting a kid void. They do play dirty.

Whether they’re playing dirty with Demidov’s playing time, to try making sure he stays another 2 years, we’ll see. For him to get more money next year, they will get that 2nd year. All teams do it. It’s how they structure contracts. SKA does it to try keeping kids. Other teams do it, to get the kid for a year, and hope the kid doesn’t think he’s ready to leave for the NHL. In Buchelnikov’s case now, he doesn’t have to deal with SKA, trying to void that 2nd year, as he’ll likely do coming up here. Making this his final KHL year. Assuming Detroit agrees he’ll be in the NHL next year and no AHL time. If he stays, then Vityaz made out like bandits for two years.

These top Russian kids have that leverage and they use it. Personally, I think Demidov shouldn’t waste his time staying another year, but he’s gonna get all sorts of pressure to. If he does, he needs to at least make sure, he’s not playing for SKA next season.

Force a trade to a team that’s gonna let him do his thing, then void that 2nd year. My guess is, Montreal has already told him, he’s gonna play in the NHL next year. It’s gonna be up to him, if he thinks he’s ready to contribute Day One. If they weren’t playing these games with him, he’d have a lot more confidence making that decision.

Anyone trying to pretend what SKA is doing, means Demidov is somehow not a great prospect, that’s just silly. He will have to prove what every Russian kid has to coming over. That he can create space in traffic. He’s a natural C though, so like Buchelnikov, it shouldn’t be a problem. Michkov was a natural winger. They bust a lot more, but he answered those questiions the first day he stepped into a regular season NHL game. Demidov and Buchelnikov will still have to answer that question but the bust factor is much less, as they are natural Cs.

Khusnutdinov never voided an optional 2nd year of his contract, nor do I believe he even had one. Nor did Minnesota promise him an NHL roster spot this year if he did.

The 'optional 2nd year' contracts are rare.
AFAIK the only player to verifiably have one is Miroshnichenko with Omsk.

 

[danisonfire]

On his team he is tied for 3rd in points and is 24th in ice time per game.

Friendly reminder of what his ice time and role has been this season.

 

[samsagat]

Rotenberg is an incompetent, nepotist arrogant dipshit. So of course Demidov isnt in an optimal situation. Yet the same can be said for a lot of players under Rotenberg. Questionable player usage is a pattern with him. Shit, see Buchelnikov, Tolchinsky, Michkov, Ivanov, Kadeikin, etc.
It needn't always be “OMG! (Insert favorite player) isnt getting playing time? Those Russian clubs always punish players leaving for NHL!!!”
This shows a total lack of nuance.

I agree, it's not something systemic in the KHL, it's a case by case situation, depending on the organization.

As an example, Novgorod Torpedo, with Igor "the professor" Larionov as their head coach, doesn't shy away from using youngsters as their top players.

They're not a wealthy team like the St Petersburg Ska, so they can't be as "picky" as them. If the young guys perform, then they'll be used according to their performances.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Well many teams also passed on Michkov as well.....it does make you wonder....

Teams passed on Michkov because he wouldn't sign with them and wouldn't talk to them. I think that combined with the Putin factor was enough for teams to go in another direction.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Better to build Championship winning teams with two way defensemen than one way wingers, all other things being equal.

Demidov might have more star upside, but if all they are is a 50-60 point winger and a 3D then you’re probably taking the 3D.

What about Reinbacher instead of Michkov ?

Teams passed on Michkov because he wouldn't sign with them and wouldn't talk to them. I think that combined with the Putin factor was enough for teams to go in another direction.

Myth . Teams passed on him because they figured he’d be playing in the K for 3 more seasons combined w the conflict in Russia clouding things . Coyotes were the only team he wasn’t enthused about suiting up for ; and with the sale / location of the team in question you can kinda understand why .

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

What about Reinbacher instead of Michkov ?

That was probably the Habs thought. Then again, they completely messed up that evaluation.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

That was probably the Habs thought. Then again, they completely messed up that evaluation.

I was and I am still thinking it was a mistake to not take Michkov but from the few minutes we had to watch Reinbacher before his season ending injury, he looked pretty good. I am not happy about it but I think they have a top 4 defenseman in Reinbacher.

Apparently the habs scouts were unanimous about selecting him and insisted for Kent Hughes to not entertain trading down and losing on Reinbacher.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

I was and I am still thinking it was a mistake to not take Michkov but from the few minutes we had to watch Reinbacher before his season ending injury, he looked pretty good. I am not happy about it but I think they have a top 4 defenseman in Reinbacher.

Apparently the habs scouts were unanimous about selecting him and insisted for Kent Hughes to not entertain trading down and losing on Reinbacher.

Group think gone wrong

 

[Thomas Sowell]

Group think gone wrong

Dude. You are still on here desperately trying to maintain your fragile ego and the reality that we've obtained a player who is very much capable of being better than matvei michkov, and we are ecstatic about him.

All things considered we are very very happy with the way management has performed. They have absolutely knocked it out of the park.

You're in the demidov thread lol

 

[Frank Drebin]

Hey I'm a Hawks fan here and it wasn't just the Blackhawks who passed on him right? We even tried to trade our pick this year to get him. He looks like he's gonna be a great player but and our message board is split on who they should have taken but I'm ok with the Levshunov pick.

He's looking quite good in the AHL right now and if he turns out to be a legit #1 D who is also right handed, I'll be good with the pick no matter how good Demidov turns out to be. #1 D men are so much harder to find than dynamic wingers that don't look to do anything other than score. We have another year or 2 of being bad to find playmakers at the top of the draft to play with Bedard.

Sorry you’re going to have to hear about it just like we have to hear about michkov

 

[MHO]

Sorry you’re going to have to hear about it just like we have to hear about michkov

We'll see. We're used to Trubisky over Mahomes anyway but time will tell.

 

[Frank Drebin]

We'll see. We're used to Trubisky over Mahomes anyway but time will tell.

Personally i hope both dmen develop to the point that it’s not an issue

 

[ItWasJustified]

Teams passed on Michkov because he wouldn't sign with them and wouldn't talk to them.

There has literally been zero proof of this.

 

[David Suzuki]

There has literally been zero proof of this.

Friedman made it pretty clear he wanted Philly in a podcast recently.

 

[ItWasJustified]

Friedman made it pretty clear he wanted Philly in a podcast recently.

Yeah, when it is revealed that Friedman knows Russian or when he reveals who his source on that is, then I believe him. Until then, that's only his justification on why a number of GMs didn't do their jobs correctly and firmly believed what everyone one at Sportsnet kept saying that draft year that Michkov wasn't coming to North America for several years after his draft.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Yeah, when it is revealed that Friedman knows Russian or when he reveals who his source on that is, then I believe him. Until then, that's only his justification on why a number of GMs didn't do their jobs correctly and firmly believed what everyone one at Sportsnet kept saying that draft year that Michkov wasn't coming to North America for several years after his draft.

If you choose to not read between the lines and apply common sense in order to confirm your beliefs that the 5 nhl franchises that passed on michkov did so because they were all incompetently run by lazy dummies thats your prerogative.

In time, the truth will come out.

There has literally been zero proof of this.

Arizonas gm went on the record saying michkov wouldn’t return their calls. So that’s one team confirmed. Plus what credible insider friedman had to say.

But yes, continue refusing to believe that michkov was not your typical prospect heading into the draft

 

[Devonator]

Dude. You are still on here desperately trying to maintain your fragile ego and the reality that we've obtained a player who is very much capable of being better than matvei michkov, and we are ecstatic about him.

All things considered we are very very happy with the way management has performed. They have absolutely knocked it out of the park.

You're in the demidov thread lol

Yeah I wouldn't go that far.....Demidov will be a good one but I doubt he will ever be on the level of Michkov....

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Thought this would be an update on how his season is going or relevant information on his progress and timetable for reaching the NHL.