F Daniil Gushchin (2020, 76th, SJS)

[karltonian]

He pretty much styled all over a close to NHL rostered Vegas tonight and made it so that if he doesn't make the team it will look bad on the Sharks management lol

 

[Kshahdoo]

So it looks like the Sharks have a cunning plan for Daniil to play him 10 min on the 4th line for some games, then tell him he isn't NHL ready and send him back to the AHL...

 

[SoundAndFury]

I don't know about the second part but the Sprong kind of usage might be his best career path if he is effective enough. Also, he is no small reason why Blues' 3rd goal happened and he took a bad penalty in the 3rd. So it's hard to find arguments why he should get more minutes. You get those by playing well.

I understanding wanting more TOI for prospects when they deliver but asking for it after a so-so game at the very best, and probably flat-out not good if we were more objective about it, just gives boy who cried wolf vibes.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I don't know about the second part but the Sprong kind of usage might be his best career path if he is effective enough. Also, he is no small reason why Blues' 3rd goal happened and he took a bad penalty in the 3rd. So it's hard to find arguments why he should get more minutes. You get those by playing well.

I understanding wanting more TOI for prospects when they deliver but asking for it after a so-so game at the very best, and probably flat-out not good if we were more objective about it, just gives boy who cried wolf vibes.

You mean he lost battle along the board to 6'6 222 Toropchenko, and then Thrun couldn't clear the puck? Yeah, that's what 4th liners do, fight for the puck along the boards and in corners, exactly the role for Gushchin. Still that goal was mostly on Thrun.

 

[coooldude]

I don't know about the second part but the Sprong kind of usage might be his best career path if he is effective enough. Also, he is no small reason why Blues' 3rd goal happened and he took a bad penalty in the 3rd. So it's hard to find arguments why he should get more minutes. You get those by playing well.

I understanding wanting more TOI for prospects when they deliver but asking for it after a so-so game at the very best, and probably flat-out not good if we were more objective about it, just gives boy who cried wolf vibes.

You mean he lost battle along the board to 6'6 222 Toropchenko, and then Thrun couldn't clear the puck? Yeah, that's what 4th liners do, fight for the puck along the boards and in corners, exactly the role for Gushchin. Still that goal was mostly on Thrun.

I agree with @Kshahdoo here. He actually got the puck back to the D (Thrun) who carelessly fired it up the wall, which our D were doing all night. As I was live, I could watch his shifts pretty closely in person. He battled, he helped win some pucks, he had a nice few shots. The penalty seemed kinda fluky.

Overall I thought Gushchin showed decently well, but it was also a wake up call that while he did his job, he also didn't necessarily earn himself into the top 6 either. And he's not going to take a spot on the checking 3rd line from Kunin or Goodrow. So he's probably in the press box next game as Kostin or Grundstrom get a start. His best path to sticking is gonna be by impacting on the second PP and having more games where he does his job in 8-10 minutes on the 4th line, or injuries. I still think he'll get 40+ games.

Edit: warsofsky quote, maybe he gets a second game on Sturm's line, we'll see.

Warsofsky, on Danil Gushchin’s performance:

I thought he was a little inconsistent at times, trying some things. Had a good second period. I thought he was solid.

 

[SoundAndFury]

You mean he lost battle along the board to 6'6 222 Toropchenko, and then Thrun couldn't clear the puck? Yeah, that's what 4th liners do, fight for the puck along the boards and in corners, exactly the role for Gushchin. Still that goal was mostly on Thrun.

Battles along the wall is what every player has to do and the more they play, the more they have to do it. Yes, nobody is expecting him to win those board battles but that's exactly the reason why it's unreasonable to expect him to get significantly more 5v5 time.

Yes, I agree how things currently stand the goal is mostly on Thrun. If he was a better player nothing happens there. But if it was Goodrow and not Gushchin in that board battle, Thrun probably isn't under that much pressure to begin with.

Anyway, my point is Gushchin is what he is and has to work with what he has. He has to make positive offensive contributions that outweigh his defensive deficiencies. And 4th line is a completely reasonable place to start. This isn't the NHL of old where 4th line is a fighter, banger and center that can win faceoffs and nothing else. Now Gushchin is on the 4th line with a former 13th overall pick in Dellandrea, they can string a few decent attacks together.

 

[coooldude]

Battles along the wall is what every player has to do and the more they play, the more they have to do it. Yes, nobody is expecting him to win those board battles but that's exactly the reason why it's unreasonable to expect him to get significantly more 5v5 time.

Yes, I agree how things currently stand the goal is mostly on Thrun. If he was a better player nothing happens there. But if it was Goodrow and not Gushchin in that board battle, Thrun probably isn't under that much pressure to begin with.

Anyway, my point is Gushchin is what he is and has to work with what he has. He has to make positive offensive contributions that outweigh his defensive deficiencies. And 4th line is a completely reasonable place to start. This isn't the NHL of old where 4th line is a fighter, banger and center that can win faceoffs and nothing else. Now Gushchin is on the 4th line with a former 13th overall pick in Dellandrea, they can string a few decent attacks together.

I agree with most of this post but I think the only thing Gush could have done better on that play is getting the puck to Thrun harder. He kind of pushed it back rather than taking a half step to send it with pace, and that contributed to the pressure Thrun was under. However Gush DID win the puck back, and a couple other times he actually did well to put a body on guys like Parayko. Sometimes it worked sometimes it didn't but I thought he did his 4th line job while also generating at least one okay chance.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Battles along the wall is what every player has to do and the more they play, the more they have to do it. Yes, nobody is expecting him to win those board battles but that's exactly the reason why it's unreasonable to expect him to get significantly more 5v5 time.

Yes, I agree how things currently stand the goal is mostly on Thrun. If he was a better player nothing happens there. But if it was Goodrow and not Gushchin in that board battle, Thrun probably isn't under that much pressure to begin with.

Anyway, my point is Gushchin is what he is and has to work with what he has. He has to make positive offensive contributions that outweigh his defensive deficiencies. And 4th line is a completely reasonable place to start. This isn't the NHL of old where 4th line is a fighter, banger and center that can win faceoffs and nothing else. Now Gushchin is on the 4th line with a former 13th overall pick in Dellandrea, they can string a few decent attacks together.

Yeah, tell this to some good-for-offence-only midgets like DeBrincat. Still they play and score, and nobody demands from them to go and fight players twice as big...

 

[SoundAndFury]

Yeah, tell this to some good-for-offence-only midgets like DeBrincat. Still they play and score, and nobody demands from them to go and fight players twice as big...

Do you honestly believe DeBrincat is a good comparison for Gushchin? Because if we are talking about the size only, someone like Nathan Gerbe did fight against the guys twice his size. But I think it's fair to say Gushchin isn't going to be either of those guys. He either starts contributing in a limited role or goes to the KHL. What is your argument for something else?

Yes, Gaudreau or DeBrincat exist but that's why they turned heads at every level before arriving to the NHL. It doesn't mean every reasonably successful undersized scorer in junior can become them.

 

[Caser]

 

[Kshahdoo]

I'm pretty sure he's as good as gone after this season.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I'm pretty sure he's as good as gone after this season.

Yeah, because he can't hack it in the NHL.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Yeah, because he can't hack it in the NHL.

You mean he isn't suited for a 3-4 liner role? It wasn't a big secret even before he started his professional career. Anyway it's easier to make NHL from KHL...

 

[Juxtaposer]

You mean he isn't suited for a 3-4 liner role? It wasn't a big secret even before he started his professional career. Anyway it's easier to make NHL from KHL...

He got second line minutes with the Sharks for an extended period and did absolutely nothing with them. I was really rooting for him to succeed, but he didn't.

 

[Kshahdoo]

He got second line minutes with the Sharks for an extended period and did absolutely nothing with them. I was really rooting for him to succeed, but he didn't.

Lol, have you checked his stats? He played more than 12 min in 2 games, it's not second line minutes. He had 10 min TOI in 3 games, 11 min in 3 games and 12 min in 2 games. It's 3-4 line minutes. And given Sharks bottom6 was terrible, no wonder he scored nothing.

 

[coooldude]

Lol, have you checked his stats? He played more than 12 min in 2 games, it's not second line minutes. He had 10 min TOI in 3 games, 11 min in 3 games and 12 min in 2 games. It's 3-4 line minutes. And given Sharks bottom6 was terrible, no wonder he scored nothing.

You obviously didn't watch those games. We all did. He was on the second line, but didn't get PK time and was PP2. the team is so bad that his 2nd line mates were getting PP1 and PK time, so this means if there were a lot of penalties, he sat. He was on the second line though. Unfortunately for him, the stretch of games he played on the second line also were some of the sharks' most penalty heavy games. Same problem Smith was facing as the 3C.

Unfortunately for Gush, he didn't do much with the time he did get. Nothing on PP, a few flashes here and there that he didn't bury, but didn't really show the skill, wasn't any better at the hard dirty work, so why keep trotting him out? dellandrea and Grundstrom bring better speed, checking, PK, and not much less offense.

Many many sharks fans really wanted him to succeed and I think he's still going to get more games, but like Bordeleau, I think he'll be gone from the organization within a year. Just doesn't fit with the direction.

 

[Kshahdoo]

You obviously didn't watch those games. We all did. He was on the second line, but didn't get PK time and was PP2. the team is so bad that his 2nd line mates were getting PP1 and PK time, so this means if there were a lot of penalties, he sat. He was on the second line though. Unfortunately for him, the stretch of games he played on the second line also were some of the sharks' most penalty heavy games. Same problem Smith was facing as the 3C.

Unfortunately for Gush, he didn't do much with the time he did get. Nothing on PP, a few flashes here and there that he didn't bury, but didn't really show the skill, wasn't any better at the hard dirty work, so why keep trotting him out? dellandrea and Grundstrom bring better speed, checking, PK, and not much less offense.

Many many sharks fans really wanted him to succeed and I think he's still going to get more games, but like Bordeleau, I think he'll be gone from the organization within a year. Just doesn't fit with the direction.

Without Celebrini the Sharks' 2nd line isn't that much better than some 4th lines on contenders. And still his time wasn't 2nd line one.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Without Celebrini the Sharks' 2nd line isn't that much better than some 4th lines on contenders. And still his time wasn't 2nd line one.

Believe what you want to believe. The only thing you're right about is that he will go back to the KHL after this season.

 

[coooldude]

Without Celebrini the Sharks' 2nd line isn't that much better than some 4th lines on contenders. And still his time wasn't 2nd line one.

"He hasn't been given a chance, he's on the 4th line."
"No, he was on the second line, but because of penalties / PP2 being really short-changed, he got few minutes, which also affected Smith."
"Well, your 2nd line is a 4th line on most teams, so he wasn't given a chance on a top line."
... Uh, OK? So your problem is with the Sharks, not with how the Sharks are handling Gushchin.

Actual data rather than speculation:

• 43:13 with Zetterlund and Wennberg. This is an okay/bad NHL 2nd line or a decent 3rd line. At the time it was 100% our 2nd line. 46% CF%, 42% xGF, majority of his time playing here.
• 2:33 w/ Toffoli and Granlund, definitely 2nd liners on an okay team, and actually our first line at the time. 42% CF%. 1SOG with xGA 0.12, xGF% at 21.9%
• 11:07 with Wennberg and Goodrow - not a 2nd line, but also not a 4th line. probably a decent 3rd line. 68% CF% and 64.6% xGF%.
• 1:10 with Kunin and Goodrow. Probably a bad 3rd line or a good 4th line. No stats.
• 7:25 with Smith and Kunin. an NHL 3rd line, not 2nd line. 36% CF%, 75% xGF% (but a low number - low event hockey).
• 9:18 with Grundstrom and Sturm - 4th line. 39% CF%, 29% xGF% but also low event hockey.
• 6:52 with Dellandrea and Sturm - 4th line. 38% CF%, 35% xGF%, still low event hockey.
• 0:28 with Kunin and Zetterlund - 4th line.

 

[hohosaregood]

He just doesn't have the tools to make up for the size and the rebuild is adding too many bigger wingers with equivalent skill and potential for him to have a long term shot with the Sharks. Not to mention that Eklund pretty much has locked down the one top 6 spot we have available for an undersized winger.