F Chaz Lucius (2021, 18th, WPG)

Bellows is a terrible comparison. They play nothing alike.

I'd suggest watching more than two games of Lucius.

Care to elaborate? I haven't watched Bellows much since his draft year but I seem to remember him as a fairly one-dimensional goalscorer that don't contribute a lot in other areas of the game. Not saying they're carbon copies (no two players are) but as far as comparisons go I think they fill a similar role. They may play slightly differently but in the end their impact on the game is similar.
 
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Absolutely it applies to Lucius. It applies to everyone. If a 1st overall pick can completely bust (and as recently as 2012) then so can anyone. Prospects much better, more complete and and more highly regarded than Lucius has either busted or fell way short of expectations. It happens literally all the time. Why would Lucius be any different?

My point might've not been clear. I'm not saying it can't apply for Lucius, I simply don't think it will. When I look at the 20-25 names that most agree will be first round picks, Lucius is among the category I would say have a pretty safe ceiling, and aren't going to be playing in Austria or Switzerland at age 26. And obviously being safe doesn't guarantee NHL success, but I think the calculation with Lucius is a smaller range of possibilities than most players due to the nature of his game and his past few seasons of production.

Well I can't speak for others, I can only speak for myself and I don't think Lucius and Caufield are in the same stratosphere when it comes to talent and overall ability. I loved Caufield and was never in doubt he'd be a very good player. I think he had a lot more going for him than Lucius despite being so much smaller, which should say a lot.

My point here might've not been clear either. I'm not trying to compare him to Caufield. There are obvious differences, but I think the way they score goals is similar. I think it's very repeatable, and both have a long history at the NTDP of scoring goals. I think that type of pedigree as an elite goal scoring winger at the NTDP, along with a very repeatable method of goal scoring that should translate up to higher level made Caufield a safe prospect in the middle of the first round, and makes Lucius a safe prospect in the middle of the first round. For other reasons, I wasn't a big fan of either player, but I think the bigger picture of both players is similar, not that I think the best comparable for Lucius game is Caufield.

Now this part of your post is very level-headed and clear-minded IMO. This assessment seems very fair and is really not too dissimilar from what I see. But there are also a lot of "if's" in there. It's easy to assume that he'll round out his game and get his weak parts up to NHL standards but it's not always that easy.

NHL is a tough league to play in, and the problem with Lucius (in my view) is that 1. he is pretty far behind in some of these attributes 2. he doesn't have a back-up 'skill' to fall back on. He's not going to be a grinder, an energy guy or a playmaker. If his goal-scoring doesn't translate he will bust. If his goal-scoring translates but his skating and/or defensive game is not good enough he will also bust in the long run.

So while I believe he has NHL upside I also believe he carries a lot of risk and frankly I don't think he has enough upside to warrant taking that risk and picking him early in the draft. That's what it comes down to for me.

But how unrealistic are those ifs?

The guy is 6'0 175, not 5'7 130. He may need to get stronger, but if he puts on 20 pounds in the next three years, he'll he about 6'0 195. It's not as if this exact bulking-up discussion isn't had about many 18 year old prospects every year. How many of them at around 6'0 175 are physically incapable of adding the needed strength? That seems like more of a formality that will take a few years.

The defense equation is another discussion that is had about many 18 year old prospects. Defense is one of the easiest parts of the game to improve. It's a lot more effort based, and simple hockey sense based. You don't need to have one of the best hockey senses in the sport to learn how to more effectively play within a defensive scheme and position yourself better. Also, some of defense equation comes with getting physically stronger, and receiving better coaching, the types of things he should get as he moves up to NCAA hockey, and then eventually AHL/NHL hockey. Defense may still be a question for Lucius at age 22, but if it's so much of a question that it hinders his outlook, his offensive game probably didn't pan out as expected. There are very few players who the defensive part of the game is a huge weakness they need to overcome. It's usually something that gets better with age and physical development. With some players its a strength, but for a likely winger I find it to be a pretty weak discussion point.

The real question is the skating. I guess this is more of a question of how someone views it. I don't think anyone thinks it's a strength, but I don't know that I think its terrible or something that'll keep him from reaching the NHL. I think it's a little below average right now, and probably at a level where he should be able to get it to NHL average. Saying that, I'm not a skating mechanics guru, so I'm not sure sure about the technical aspects of his skating. Maybe you think it's a lot worse than I do, and that may be where we differ on how realistic the ifs are. I'm not sure Lucius has anything holding him back in a big way. I think he has some minor questions that he'll almost surely be working on, like all prospects have, and he's one of the safer bets in this first round for an effective NHL career due to his goal scoring ability.
 
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Care to elaborate? I haven't watched Bellows much since his draft year but I seem to remember him as a fairly one-dimensional goalscorer that don't contribute a lot in other areas of the game. Not saying they're carbon copies (no two players are) but as far as comparisons go I think they fill a similar role. They may play slightly differently but in the end their impact on the game is similar.

Bellows was a stocky power forward that crashed the net and powered pucks past goalies. His game involved very little thinking.

They are both one-dimensional goal scorers, but that's where the comparison stops.
 
Bellows was a stocky power forward that crashed the net and powered pucks past goalies. His game involved very little thinking.

They are both one-dimensional goal scorers, but that's where the comparison stops.

They have far more in common with how they play than you suggest. The way they score their goals is near-identical. They actually play the game in a very similar way. I have no idea how you can say it's a 'terrible comparison' or that they 'play nothing alike'. Both glide a lot on their skates, scanning the ice, not involving themselves much in the play but rather try and get into a dangerous scoring position where they can get their shot off. Neither is a playmaker, neither is a great skater or defensive player. Bellows is slightly more physical and powerful but he doesn't really play like a true power forward IMO, certainly not by old standards anyway.


 
Mactavish is falling because of what now?


He isnt really falling, I guess it depends where you had him.

Most lists dont have top Mactavish in top 9.

However i thought he was going to get into the top 9 based on being a Centre. Almost every year a Centre pops up, whether its a Hayton or a Kotkanimi or a Pettersson.

Now in seeing some lists, it looks like its Chaz thats gonna pop up and not Mactavish.
 
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They have far more in common with how they play than you suggest. The way they score their goals is near-identical. They actually play the game in a very similar way. I have no idea how you can say it's a 'terrible comparison' or that they 'play nothing alike'. Both glide a lot on their skates, scanning the ice, not involving themselves much in the play but rather try and get into a dangerous scoring position where they can get their shot off. Neither is a playmaker, neither is a great skater or defensive player. Bellows is slightly more physical and powerful but he doesn't really play like a true power forward IMO, certainly not by old standards anyway.



Bellows was an out and out power forward at lower levels. Matured early, and had a bullying style. Wasn't able to carry that game into the NHL because he isn't big and strong enough. Lucius is far more of a skill guy.

I wasn't crazy about Bellows as a prospect(grew up here in my backyard). I know less of Lucius, but one of my sons played against him with Gentry(I don't know if it was called that at the time) a couple of times in summer hockey when they were young. Have to say that I instinctively don't like the way his "career' has happened, with his well to do parents founding a school based around hockey(they are not sending students to MIT any time soon)- the ultimate "snowplow" parents. Don't know of the the young man personally, so can't say anything there.

Definitely a guy who has had a lot handed to him.
 
He isnt really falling, I guess it depends where you had him.

Most lists dont have top Mactavish in top 9.

However i thought he was going to get into the top 9 based on being a Centre. Almost every year a Centre pops up, whether its a Hayton or a Kotkanimi or a Pettersson.

Now in seeing some lists, it looks like its Chaz thats gonna pop up and not Mactavish.
well in the case of 2018 that draft wasn't strong on centers.
 
I’m not a huge Lucius fan, and I agree with the above post that he needs to improve his skating. I’d add he needs to improve defensively and I don’t think he’ll play center or be much of a playmaker, but the kid will score goals. He does so in a very repeatable way. He’ll be a top six winger for Winnipeg before long. Lucius at 18 is good value.
 
He was my #3 pick if Calgary couldn't get either Coronato or Stillman. We got Coronato. Welcome to the NHL Chaz.
 
I’m not a huge Lucius fan, and I agree with the above post that he needs to improve his skating. I’d add he needs to improve defensively and I don’t think he’ll play center or be much of a playmaker, but the kid will score goals. He does so in a very repeatable way. He’ll be a top six winger for Winnipeg before long. Lucius at 18 is good value.
Winnipeg has a black hole at RW so this would seem to be a good fit for both team and player.
 
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Anyone pay close attention to the USA Summer Hockey Showcase (selection camp for U20 WJHC)? Any insight on why Chaz Lucius did not play the last two games?
 
Anyone pay close attention to the USA Summer Hockey Showcase (selection camp for U20 WJHC)? Any insight on why Chaz Lucius did not play the last two games?
Seems as though he was day to day with an injury. Not much more info beyond that
 
Well I hope he starts putting up points with consistency (for my fantasy teams’ sake). He started the year with what, 2 point in 8 Games? Oh well, took Matt Boldy some time to figure things out as well.
 
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