Doesn't mean much, Michigan only has one good player - Hage. Most of the others have no clue what to do when they get the puck.
F Charlie Stramel - Michigan State University, NCAA (2023, 21st, MIN)
- Thread starter Pavel Buchnevich
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So, Stramel is bad when he doesn't score, but when he scores 3 points in a game it doesn't mean anything?
His pretty poor 1st year should’ve been his SR year in HS, to be fair. And his 2nd year at Wisconsin was a disaster — but it’s not like he got major minutes and didn’t perform. He was buried by a coach who didn’t want to play him.
Classic Habs fan behavior, make a thread that should have nothing to do with Montreal about a Habs prospect
WarriorofTime
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Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
True, a couple excuses as to the poor play. Now he plays with the country's leading scorer, so maybe an excuse in the opposite direction. We saw Hartman put up 65 points playing next to Kaprizov and it didn't seem to mean much more than that.
My current state is 'extremely cautious semi-optimism'.
Hopefully he has at least surpassed Ryan Healey for Wild fans in their summer rankings.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Funny you use that name. I'm probably higher on Healey than anybody else on our board (I think I started voting for him at #8 or #9).
Technically, he's closer to his team leader in points than Stramel is to his, and he'd probably have more points if he had Buium to his left, so I'm not so sure.
Healey is unlikely to be an impact AHLer, much less NHLer. Howard has witnessed a 50% increase in production next to Stramel, BTW.
- Dec 10, 2012
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Not sure how you can look at their careers and trajectories and think Stramel is the one propping up Howard, but someone's gotta be that guy I guess.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
This is the $100 question. Is Stramel actually so good that he's boosting an otherwise fine player into the nation's leading scorer, or is Howard so good that he's boosting a mediocre Stramel to respectability?
I guess if I had to choose, my money would be on the prior year point-per-gamer being a year older and a year better. But it also might mean that Stramel has the ability to play with better players and not take as much off the table as one might otherwise think.
And every 4th round or later pick is unlikely to be an NHLer.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
The team leader in points is a floaty and small one way winger with mediocre skating who is a draft ahead of Stramel.
Yeah, Howard is a decent player, but he's a middle six NHL forward prospect. He's not some star player. He's not even like a Hagens or Perreault level facilitator that hypothetically Stramel could leach points off of.
Stramel is like 5 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier. Also skates way better, is way more physical, plays the more valuable position, and is way better defensively.
The guy who puts up more points isn't always the better prospect or the drastically better prospect. When will fans learn this?
Lot of Wild fans will find any reason they can to justify their dislike of Stramel. It’s bizarre.
- Dec 10, 2012
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Doesn't really matter how they turn out as NHL players, we're looking at what they're doing in the NCAA.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
I know this. A lot of star college players don't turn into much or anything in the NHL. Doesn't mean he's not currently helping Stramel produce more than Stramel is helping him. Just because Howard has flaws that might keep him from doing what he's doing at the next level, doesn't mean that any current level impact is null.
If you're pointing to this season and saying "see, you were wrong about the last 2 years" I'm just a little guarded against that. I know he'll play in the NHL, he's a big 1st round pick. I'm just not leaping to the idea that he's much more than he was last year because he's playing with the nation's current points leader.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
I don't dislike Stramel. I just don't care if he's a crash and bang 4th liner. I'm looking at his ability to be a really good 3rd line center or a fine/adequate 2nd line center, and I'm currently not sure that riding shotgun to the nation's leading scorer is an indication of that.
Interesting that you (factually correctly) say Howard is a "draft ahead", but let's provide the context. Howard is only 6.5 months older and they're both in their third year of NCAA hockey.
Anyone watching Wisconsin games can quickly see who their best player is. Stramel is benefitting greatly from playing with him. I just don't see the physical skills to make Stramel more than a depth player in the pros. His production should be better considering he's playing with a star teammate and has the size to physically dominate college competition. His third season isn't the disaster of his first two, but it's very underwhelming for a junior in college.
Perhaps you are just looking for reasons to validate ranking Ryan Healey ten spots higher in MN’s internal prospect rankings?
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Excuse me, they don't play for Wisconsin. It was never going to work out for him once Hastings got the job due to how Hastings builds his rosters.
Stramel scored everywhere except for Wisconsin. Don't care about Howard in the context of Stramel. There's really no discussion to be had about if anyone is leaching off anyone. They both got drafted in the first round and it wasn't due to having amazing seasons playing together and having amazing chemistry. It's a completely meaningless discussion going on. They'll both succeed or fail independently of each other.
And you shouldn't do so much stat watching. But if you did it properly, you'd see that Stramel is second on MSU in points. They score by committee, except Howard (who was drafted first round as a guy who will live and die by if he can score a lot). Stramel's the 1C for the best team in college hockey. To say that's not very meaningful is being unfair to Stramel. If you're expecting like 40 points on the season right now, you don't understand what Stramel is and what MSU is. Stramel's a player who does everything well and can chip in enough points. The selling point isn't scoring points. And MSU has a very balanced lineup. The team could be worse, they could be force feeding him more TOI and situations and Stramel could have 10 more points. I don't think that would change what he projects as in the NHL. Those that've watched the team play are happy with his play.
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- Dec 10, 2012
- 41,240
- 19,390
Also if we're going to pretend Stramel is the primary factor behind Howard's 50% scoring increase, how should we view Stramel's 372% increase?
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Perhaps. And perhaps victory lapping while he's riding shotgun to the nation's leading scorer is a bit premature too.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
So what's your assessment of where he's tracking to as an NHL player right now, really good 3C? Fine 2C? Good 2C?
What's the highest you wouldn't be surprised he ended up?
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
I think he projects as a middle six center. If it goes well, you get a 2C. If it goes poorly, you get a 3C. I think he squarely projects as an NHL forward and always has. He was misused by Hastings last year.
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