The quip about Soviet tv.What are you talking about now? What claim?
The quip about Soviet tv.What are you talking about now? What claim?
The quip about Soviet tv.
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Not at all. A very interesting question.
Very, very unlikely anything from the NHL made it to the Soviet airwaves. Soviet league teams were on TV there all the time, as were many of the international tournaments.
Orr was most likely a mystery to the Soviet players, although it is possible, as you say, that there may have been video footage supplied to them. (but probably not)
Soviet teams touring NA played against Bobby Orr as part of Junior All Star teams, saw him play in person as guests in NHL arenas and watched NHL games on TV while in NA.
Which is why he lost Hart to his own teammate and a few to Bobby Clarke.
Funny: Russian players repeatedly said that Orr came back to his zone defensively only on holidays.
When did he? In his ranking of the top Canadian players in NHL history, Bowman had Lafleur #11 and Orr #1.
Sorry, my memory failed me. You are both right, and I'm wrong.Are you misinformed or do you just like to make stuff up?
Perreault -- yes, but Potvin keeps getting exposed and penalized.37-year old Bobby Hull played very well.
You can really see how good Perreault and Potvin were in the '76 Canada Cup.
Orr played great but as others have said, he was a shadow of his healthier self.
Not on TV prolly. But it would be really silly to assume that Soviets didn't get their hands on every possible tape they would've wanted. It's not like public hockey games were in any way restricted material in north america, so ofcource kgb or even lesser "players" got their hands to the recordings.Another poster said the Soviet players saw Orr play on TV. In the Soviet Union.
So I asked if NHL games were broadcaster there around 1970. No quip, simple question. How the hell would I know what was on TV in Russia in 1970.
Well thanks, I appreciate that.This might be the best post I've ever read here. Definitely one of my personal top 3.
I'm a Bruins fan who was just a baby when Orr was tearing up the NHL. I have no recollection of seeing him play on TV, nevermind in person. So, I only have YouTube, this forum, and my older friends and family as my connection to Orr. That being said, I have a tremendous appreciation for his contributions to the sport, and to the Boston Bruins. The Bruins were in very bad shape in the early 60s, and Orr pretty much saved and resurrected the franchise. No exaggeration.
Mr. Gallivan's 7 points make a stunning case for best defenseman of all time, and certainly made me think about the Orr/Gretzky debate.
I am thoroughly impressed, and there was alot there that I did not know. Thank you for sharing this.
Hats off to you, Sir.
I'd like to be able to say there's an argument against Orr but I don't really see it.
Of course there is: Longevity. It is a glaring weakness. Orr played 8.5 seasons (sort of).
Longevity just happens to have an extremely low value among hockey fans relative to fans of other sports.
That said I still think Orr is the greatest D man, as in, if I were a GM knowing I would only get 8.5 seasons of Orr, I still take him over Ray Bourque's 17 consecutive seasons of being a top 5 defenseman plus the rest of his career. If people think that's a no-brainer, then I don't think they have thought things through properly.
I heard accounts that the Soviets were well versed with Bobby Hull, whom they saw on Soviet television. I don't know if that extended to many other stars.Not at all. A very interesting question.
Very, very unlikely anything from the NHL made it to the Soviet airwaves. Soviet league teams were on TV there all the time, as were many of the international tournaments.
Orr was most likely a mystery to the Soviet players, although it is possible, as you say, that there may have been video footage supplied to them. (but probably not)
Of course there is: Longevity. It is a glaring weakness. Orr played 8.5 seasons (sort of).
Longevity just happens to have an extremely low value among hockey fans relative to fans of other sports.
That said I still think Orr is the greatest D man, as in, if I were a GM knowing I would only get 8.5 seasons of Orr, I still take him over Ray Bourque's 17 consecutive seasons of being a top 5 defenseman plus the rest of his career. If people think that's a no-brainer, then I don't think they have thought things through properly.
1. Orr did not do more than Wayne Gretzky in each's 8.5 first seasons. I would argue he did notably less.You can go two ways on this, and both ways favour Orr.
1. He did far more than any other player in his roughly 8.5 seasons.
2. Longevity has based more on luck than anything else.
1. Orr did not do more than Wayne Gretzky in each's 8.5 first seasons. I would argue he did notably less.
2. Longevity has a little bit to do with luck, but also a lot to do with a player's awareness and choices. Orr has said several times that he himself is to "blame" for his shortened career, because he intentionally played a rushing style that got him in trouble along the boards, etc. The matter is, would Orr have been "Orr" if he didn't play that style? You could say the same about Lindros. Gordie Howe, after injuries at the start of his career, made a choice to be a mean SOB who elbowed opponents in the head before they had a chance to do the same to him; Gretzky made a choice to play as light as a feather and avoid being hit. Both had long careers. This wasn't all down to luck.
Well said.
And I would add: Some level of luck is always in the mix regarding sports. Genetics are luck. The household they grew up in is luck. If Orr was born to have a 110 pound frame, none of us would even know his name. He could have been born in Zimbabwe. etc.
Anyway, I have no probable judging players based on durability. It's a fact of life in sports, and it's inextricable from what defines a player. No excuses.
-It would of been way more impressive if there wasnt 12 teams in the league when he was playing with 6 new expansion teams at the height of the expansion era. 6 Teams were added in 1967, and all 6 of those teams added completely sucked. I also must point out that every player in the Orr era was Canadian. Now, Canadian players make up roughly 40% of the NHL since we are at a worldwide level.
-In short, Bobby Orr is arguably one of if not the best skater of all time. Ill give him that. He was terrific in his time. But Orr's stats would plummet in todays NHL. The speed game is much faster and while Orr abused his competition in the 1960s with speed on crap skates, he isnt Pavel Bure fast.