Experiment with purpose, sure

[hobarth]

TO has had a series lead in most of the playoff series since 2016 but somehow still manages to lose, the big boys while scoring well early in those series go mostly silent in the crunch, that needs to change.

I think TO needs to build a super line like JT/AM/MM, WN/AM/MM or JT/AM/WN, either of these lines should be nearly unstoppable come playoff time. The line with AM & MM and Bunting in last year's playoff was stoppable, that has to stop, I believe common wisdom is that doing the same things over and over again even tho it fails consistently is a sign of ...

I believe a Bunting/Hyman/Jarnkrok/name your poison actually weakens a line with AM & MM, they need someone that can be as productive as them to bring out the best in them come playoff time.

Jarnkrok/Matthews/Kerfoot, what kind of line is/was this, Matthews would have to do all the scoring, puck retrieval, passing, well you name it, let's say passing for example, I don't want Matthews passing to either Jarnkrok or Kerfoot because I've heard that Matthews is an excellent scorer, maybe putting together a line that can get him the puck in scoring areas makes more sense. I agree with Keefe that he needs to experiment so he'll have an understanding of what might be good for the playoffs, however the new Jarnkrok, Kerfoot with Matthews line is just pure ....

I think TO can build a super line and the one I think is ideal would be JT/AM/WN, they can all score, win puck battles, pass basically you name it. TO still has enough depth to assemble a decent 2nd line with Bunting/O'Rielly/MM. Unfortunately TO's depth beyond the top 2 lines doesn't exist, I even think the d is weaker after all the trades. McCabe hasn't looked good, Schenn is Schenn , they make the game look more entertaining but the results aren't there.

I love it when the announcers say things like McCabe looks confused with his outlet passes, must be because he's getting used to TO's system, ya OK. Those same Announcers had Travis Dermott looking like a very real possible quality #3 dman, they've even said that Lafferty could possibly be a decent center for Nylander because of his speed,

Let's hope O'Rielly will be rested and ready to go for the playoffs!

Click to read more...

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Wouldn't it be nice to see the Leafs do something with purpose for once?

Instead of running around all higgledy piggledy like a chicken with its head cut off.

I wouldn't worry about the stacked line thing. It's a guarantee as soon as the Leafs go down a goal in a playoff game Keefe will start running the stars 30 minutes a night. Why wouldn't he?

It's worked so well every series so far.

Dubas seriously misjudged the team when he became GM. He thought the team was already a contender. They just needed that one final piece. So he signed Tavares for $11M.

Boy was he ever wrong.

People can defend Dubas' record all they want. But I'll never understand why. I don't know if they actually believe he's doing a good job.

Or they simply don't want to admit he's wasted all these years.

The team sucked for so long. And people are STILL willing to watch them suck. Just to see a wannabe nerd with fake glasses continue to drive this once noble team off the cliff.

When does the sucking end?

They clearly have been trying desperately to win every year. Spending to the cap, trading multiple first round picks, bringing in TDL rentals. It's an all-in mentality. But they've failed each and every time.

How much more failure are people willing to accept?

 

[WillyC]

I still can’t believe we lost 4 of 6 after opening game one 5-0.

That ain’t happening this year.

 

[hobarth]

When you inherit a team that just recently signed a 38 year old to a 3 year $6 mil. + per year contract, it's hard to put all of the blame on Dubas, he signs 2 stellar players to long term contracts expecting the Cap to make their salaries more manageable and tops up the team with another superior player but covid happens. Even tho the Cap doesn't go up TO is in the top 7 teams in the NHL pretty well every year of Dubas' reign, he's not a failure.

Pretty well every team that's going to make the playoffs trades for depth, all with the intention of winning it all but unfortunately only one team wins it all, every year. If a team wins one series or 3 but doesn't win all the series should that team be considered a loser, probably not.

I haven't been in love with what Dubas has done this year, I don't see Schenn, McCabe, ZAR, and on and on as any kind of upgrade, the added physicality is more entertaining but TO's d record since the TDL is on a steep decline, Sandin and Engvall were probably more valuable than any of the additions, even O'Rielly, TO was a pretty good team both offensively and defensively, O'Rielly would have been an excellent addition.

 

[thusk]

TO has had a series lead in most of the playoff series since 2016 but somehow still manages to lose, the big boys while scoring well early in those series go mostly silent in the crunch, that needs to change.

I think TO needs to build a super line like JT/AM/MM, WN/AM/MM or JT/AM/WN, either of these lines should be nearly unstoppable come playoff time. The line with AM & MM and Bunting in last year's playoff was stoppable, that has to stop, I believe common wisdom is that doing the same things over and over again even tho it fails consistently is a sign of ...

I believe a Bunting/Hyman/Jarnkrok/name your poison actually weakens a line with AM & MM, they need someone that can be as productive as them to bring out the best in them come playoff time.

Jarnkrok/Matthews/Kerfoot, what kind of line is/was this, Matthews would have to do all the scoring, puck retrieval, passing, well you name it, let's say passing for example, I don't want Matthews passing to either Jarnkrok or Kerfoot because I've heard that Matthews is an excellent scorer, maybe putting together a line that can get him the puck in scoring areas makes more sense. I agree with Keefe that he needs to experiment so he'll have an understanding of what might be good for the playoffs, however the new Jarnkrok, Kerfoot with Matthews line is just pure ....

I think TO can build a super line and the one I think is ideal would be JT/AM/WN, they can all score, win puck battles, pass basically you name it. TO still has enough depth to assemble a decent 2nd line with Bunting/O'Rielly/MM. Unfortunately TO's depth beyond the top 2 lines doesn't exist, I even think the d is weaker after all the trades. McCabe hasn't looked good, Schenn is Schenn , they make the game look more entertaining but the results aren't there.

I love it when the announcers say things like McCabe looks confused with his outlet passes, must be because he's getting used to TO's system, ya OK. Those same Announcers had Travis Dermott looking like a very real possible quality #3 dman, they've even said that Lafferty could possibly be a decent center for Nylander because of his speed,

Let's hope O'Rielly will be rested and ready to go for the playoffs!

Leafs didn't lost because of lack of production of top 6, they lost because lack of help in scoring for the rest of the team

When leafs scored scored 86 % of leafs goal last 7 game elimination game and see leafs core matthews, marner,tavares nylander rielly scored 68 % of total leafs goal last offseason.. hard to blame him for the lost

The key to win a series is not raise matthews,marner, jt, nylander, rielly game... its by the rest of the team raising team game and giving help core neee its the way leafs neee to win

 

[Canadian Finn]

I still can’t believe we lost 4 of 6 after opening game one 5-0.

That ain’t happening this year.

agreed.

no way are we winning our opening game 5-0.

definitely ain't happening this year.

 

[egd27]

When you inherit a team that just recently signed a 38 year old to a 3 year $6 mil. + per year contract, it's hard to put all of the blame on Dubas,

You're still using the Marleau contract as an excuse?

 

[Aashir]

agreed.

no way are we winning our opening game 5-0.

definitely ain't happening this year.

Do I hear 6-0?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Wouldn't it be nice to see the Leafs do something with purpose for once?

Instead of running around all higgledy piggledy like a chicken with its head cut off.

I wouldn't worry about the stacked line thing. It's a guarantee as soon as the Leafs go down a goal in a playoff game Keefe will start running the stars 30 minutes a night. Why wouldn't he?

It's worked so well every series so far.

Dubas seriously misjudged the team when he became GM. He thought the team was already a contender. They just needed that one final piece. So he signed Tavares for $11M.

Boy was he ever wrong.

People can defend Dubas' record all they want. But I'll never understand why. I don't know if they actually believe he's doing a good job.

Or they simply don't want to admit he's wasted all these years.

The team sucked for so long. And people are STILL willing to watch them suck. Just to see a wannabe nerd with fake glasses continue to drive this once noble team off the cliff.

When does the sucking end?

They clearly have been trying desperately to win every year. Spending to the cap, trading multiple first round picks, bringing in TDL rentals. It's an all-in mentality. But they've failed each and every time.

How much more failure are people willing to accept?

 

[hobarth]

You're still using the Marleau contract as an excuse?

Sure, cost a 1st round draft pick, are you aware that TO only has 6 actual TO drafted players on the roster, none of which have been drafted by Dubie. TO's drafting is horrendous, since 2016, 6 drafts, TO only has Matthews and Lilly on the roster on a consistent basis.

TO needs a cheap source of players and the draft would be an ideal source, Babs admitted that both he and Lou were aware that the Marleau signing, for 3 years, was fated to be an anchor, 3 years was too long and $6+ mil. per were just wrong in every way. I can understand a GM making mistakes due to the unknown like injuries but signing Marleau was absolutely stupid, TO was very lucky that Dubie could get out from under that anchor but the ultimate cost could be significant.

 

[hobarth]

Leafs didn't lost because of lack of production of top 6, they lost because lack of help in scoring for the rest of the team

When leafs scored scored 86 % of leafs goal last 7 game elimination game and see leafs core matthews, marner,tavares nylander rielly scored 68 % of total leafs goal last offseason.. hard to blame him for the lost

The key to win a series is not raise matthews,marner, jt, nylander, rielly game... its by the rest of the team raising team game and giving help core neee its the way leafs neee to win

In part I agree with this, the bottom 6 need to contribute but at the same time TO has 3 players making $11 mil. per each and they can't take any games off, they are being paid to win, not just keep TO competitive. The bottom six had mostly done their job of keeping the results neutral while they were on the ice, TO's top 3 earners make/made more than any of the players TO played in the playoffs and they needed to win against who they played against, that's why they are paid so much.

 

[egd27]

Sure, cost a 1st round draft pick, are you aware that TO only has 6 actual TO drafted players on the roster, none of which have been drafted by Dubie. TO's drafting is horrendous, since 2016, 6 drafts, TO only has Matthews and Lilly on the roster on a consistent basis.

TO needs a cheap source of players and the draft would be an ideal source, Babs admitted that both he and Lou were aware that the Marleau signing, for 3 years, was fated to be an anchor, 3 years was too long and $6+ mil. per were just wrong in every way. I can understand a GM making mistakes due to the unknown like injuries but signing Marleau was absolutely stupid, TO was very lucky that Dubie could get out from under that anchor but the ultimate cost could be significant.

Yes, it was a bad 3 year signing in 2017 Clearly the reason they've had zero playoff success the past 3 years.

 

[al secord]

That's what I tell my wife that I'm doing with my knuckle

 

[BayStBullies]

They play directly into the agenda of the other team. They can't win with Keefe, as he can't beat a competent coach in a series.

 

[Jojalu]

Wouldn't it be nice to see the Leafs do something with purpose for once?

Instead of running around all higgledy piggledy like a chicken with its head cut off.

I wouldn't worry about the stacked line thing. It's a guarantee as soon as the Leafs go down a goal in a playoff game Keefe will start running the stars 30 minutes a night. Why wouldn't he?

It's worked so well every series so far.

Dubas seriously misjudged the team when he became GM. He thought the team was already a contender. They just needed that one final piece. So he signed Tavares for $11M.

Boy was he ever wrong.

People can defend Dubas' record all they want. But I'll never understand why. I don't know if they actually believe he's doing a good job.

Or they simply don't want to admit he's wasted all these years.

The team sucked for so long. And people are STILL willing to watch them suck. Just to see a wannabe nerd with fake glasses continue to drive this once noble team off the cliff.

When does the sucking end?

They clearly have been trying desperately to win every year. Spending to the cap, trading multiple first round picks, bringing in TDL rentals. It's an all-in mentality. Buti they've failed each and every time.

How much more failure are people willing to accept?

It depends on how you measure success?

Is it Cup or bust? If so, every team but one fails every year.

Is it winning 1 round? No doubt Leafs should have done that by now, but Dubas can't put the puck in the net in a clinching game.

He has overhauled the rostet to try and find the right recipe.

You can't argue his regular season success. Even though he will never be judged by that. You can't say he hasn't drastically improved the D -corps since taking over.

In the end if they fail this year he will probably fall on the sword. Not written in stone but likely.

If they win a few rounds he probably gets extended if he chooses that is what he wants to do.

The Leafs still have a 1st this year and next. They still have all their top prospects. It is not as doom and gloom as you paint

 

[Ianturnedbull]

TO has had a series lead in most of the playoff series since 2016 but somehow still manages to lose, the big boys while scoring well early in those series go mostly silent in the crunch, that needs to change.

I think TO needs to build a super line like JT/AM/MM, WN/AM/MM or JT/AM/WN, either of these lines should be nearly unstoppable come playoff time. The line with AM & MM and Bunting in last year's playoff was stoppable, that has to stop, I believe common wisdom is that doing the same things over and over again even tho it fails consistently is a sign of ...

I believe a Bunting/Hyman/Jarnkrok/name your poison actually weakens a line with AM & MM, they need someone that can be as productive as them to bring out the best in them come playoff time.

Jarnkrok/Matthews/Kerfoot, what kind of line is/was this, Matthews would have to do all the scoring, puck retrieval, passing, well you name it, let's say passing for example, I don't want Matthews passing to either Jarnkrok or Kerfoot because I've heard that Matthews is an excellent scorer, maybe putting together a line that can get him the puck in scoring areas makes more sense. I agree with Keefe that he needs to experiment so he'll have an understanding of what might be good for the playoffs, however the new Jarnkrok, Kerfoot with Matthews line is just pure ....

I think TO can build a super line and the one I think is ideal would be JT/AM/WN, they can all score, win puck battles, pass basically you name it. TO still has enough depth to assemble a decent 2nd line with Bunting/O'Rielly/MM. Unfortunately TO's depth beyond the top 2 lines doesn't exist, I even think the d is weaker after all the trades. McCabe hasn't looked good, Schenn is Schenn , they make the game look more entertaining but the results aren't there.

I love it when the announcers say things like McCabe looks confused with his outlet passes, must be because he's getting used to TO's system, ya OK. Those same Announcers had Travis Dermott looking like a very real possible quality #3 dman, they've even said that Lafferty could possibly be a decent center for Nylander because of his speed,

Let's hope O'Rielly will be rested and ready to go for the playoffs!

I have no idea what your essay is about.

What are you saying about experimenting with a purpose?

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

There is one thing this team needs to do to become successful in the playoffs. Play an elite defensive game and focus on counter attacking their opposition with their skill and speed. No more cute one two passes in our defensive zone, no more no look passes, and certainly no more TikTok video skills plays in the neutral zone. If they play like this they will produce highlight reels they could have only dreamed about.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

It depends on how you measure success?

Is it Cup or bust? If so, every team but one fails every year.

Is it winning 1 round? No doubt Leafs should have done that by now, but Dubas can't put the puck in the net in a clinching game.

He has overhauled the rostet to try and find the right recipe.

You can't argue his regular season success. Even though he will never be judged by that. You can't say he hasn't drastically improved the D -corps since taking over.

In the end if they fail this year he will probably fall on the sword. Not written in stone but likely.

If they win a few rounds he probably gets extended if he chooses that is what he wants to do.

The Leafs still have a 1st this year and next. They still have all their top prospects. It is not as doom and gloom as you paint

What you might call overhauling the roster, some might call reworking the margins.

The core is still the same. It doesn't matter how many interchangeable bottom of the roster duds you switch out. As long as it is the same core, it is the same team.

Is the team better defensively?

That's debateable.

2016/2017 - 2.85 goals against per game, 32.59 shots against per Game

2017/2018 - 2.8 gapg, 33.8 sapg

2018/2019 - 3.03 gapg, 33.13 sapg

2019/2020 - 3.17 gapg, 31.9 sapg

2020/2021 - 2.64 gapg, 27.82 sapg

2021/2022 - 3.07 gapg, 30.62 sapg

2022/2023 - 2.75 gapg, 29.2 sapg

It's the same team. With the same problems. Headed straight for the same results.

The only thing that's changed is the name on the back of the shirts of the duds.

 

[Jojalu]

What you might call overhauling the roster, some might call reworking the margins.

The core is still the same. It doesn't matter how many interchangeable bottom of the roster duds you switch out. As long as it is the same core, it is the same team.

Is the team better defensively?

That's debateable.

2016/2017 - 2.85 goals against per game, 32.59 shots against per Game

2017/2018 - 2.8 gapg, 33.8 sapg

2018/2019 - 3.03 gapg, 33.13 sapg

2019/2020 - 3.17 gapg, 31.9 sapg

2020/2021 - 2.64 gapg, 27.82 sapg

2021/2022 - 3.07 gapg, 30.62 sapg

2022/2023 - 2.75 gapg, 29.2 sapg

It's the same team. With the same problems. Headed straight for the same results.

The only thing that's changed is the name on the back of the shirts of the duds.

The core is 4 (5 if you include Rielly). There are 23 men on the roster. From the first playoffs, there are 4 remaining guys.

That is overhauling the roster.

If you want or mean to say you have zero failth in the 4 then although I have not gone that far, I can at least listen to your opinion.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

The core is 4 (5 if you include Rielly). There are 23 men on the roster. From the first playoffs, there are 4 remaining guys.

That is overhauling the roster.

If you want or mean to say you have zero failth in the 4 then although I have not gone that far, I can at least listen to your opinion.

Fair enough.

I have zero faith in either the core, or the coach, to get the job done.

History has a tendency to repeat itself and all.

 

[thusk]

In part I agree with this, the bottom 6 need to contribute but at the same time TO has 3 players making $11 mil. per each and they can't take any games off, they are being paid to win, not just keep TO competitive. The bottom six had mostly done their job of keeping the results neutral while they were on the ice, TO's top 3 earners make/made more than any of the players TO played in the playoffs and they needed to win against who they played against, that's why they are paid so much.

What you might call overhauling the roster, some might call reworking the margins.

The core is still the same. It doesn't matter how many interchangeable bottom of the roster duds you switch out. As long as it is the same core, it is the same team.

Is the team better defensively?

That's debateable.

2016/2017 - 2.85 goals against per game, 32.59 shots against per Game

2017/2018 - 2.8 gapg, 33.8 sapg

2018/2019 - 3.03 gapg, 33.13 sapg

2019/2020 - 3.17 gapg, 31.9 sapg

2020/2021 - 2.64 gapg, 27.82 sapg

2021/2022 - 3.07 gapg, 30.62 sapg

2022/2023 - 2.75 gapg, 29.2 sapg

It's the same team. With the same problems. Headed straight for the same results.

The only thing that's changed is the name on the back of the shirts of the duds.

Tamps top 3 and toronto top 6 was like 3 M of difference, just like that

Just try to name me one team who had huge succes without any contribution of their depht? Good luck

You can maybe win 1 serie, maybe 2 if youre extremely lucky but at the end whats making the differencd between 2 good team is the depht

Watch who won stanley cup and every time you will find a team with a great depht

pittsburghis a great exemple. with elite player like lesfs, when they won their cup When they played with kessel on a 3rd line or with Jordan staal and had a huge contribution of their depht. The day they traded staal or kessel been traded, playoff succes disapear

 

[francis246]

I still can’t believe we lost 4 of 6 after opening game one 5-0.

That ain’t happening this year.

The Tampa series isn’t even the worst one. The Montreal series was by far the worst display and collapse I’ve ever seem from a team. Keefe was completely out coached in that series.

Tamps top 3 and toronto top 6 was like 3 M of difference, just like that

Just try to name me one team who had huge succes without any contribution of their depht? Good luck

You can maybe win 1 serie, maybe 2 if youre extremely lucky but at the end whats making the differencd between 2 good team is the depht

Watch who won stanley cup and every time you will find a team with a great depht

pittsburghis a great exemple. with elite player like lesfs, when they won their cup When they played with kessel on a 3rd line or with Jordan staal and had a huge contribution of their depht. The day they traded staal or kessel been traded, playoff succes disapear

They won another two cups without Jordan Staal btw!

 

[Racer88]

The Tampa series isn’t even the worst one. The Montreal series was by far the worst display and collapse I’ve ever seem from a team. Keefe was completely out coached in that series.



They won another two cups without Jordan Staal btw!

Yup. Management should have been cleaned out at that point. At least Dubas and Keefe should have been terminated

 

[thusk]

The Tampa series isn’t even the worst one. The Montreal series was by far the worst display and collapse I’ve ever seem from a team. Keefe was completely out coached in that series.



They won another two cups without Jordan Staal btw!

They won 1 cup And lost once in stanley cup final with staal

2 with stanley cup won with kessel

 

[francis246]

Yup. Management should have been cleaned out at that point. At least Dubas and Keefe should have been terminated

I think this year has proven keeping Kyle wasn’t the worst decision, he’s mad significant improvements to the roster but I think Kyle should have gone with a new coach after that. He may have even gotten more confidence from the board.

I think Kyle is a fairly good GM, I think his attachment to Keefe may be what ultimately costs him his job. Because Kyle has provided Keefe with pretty good rosters.