Nonis will be patient with the youth, I'm not concerned about that. What I'm more concerned about is the decisions that were made last summer. I didn't like the Bolland move or the Clarkson signing. I get why they were made, but I still think they were mistakes. Moving forward, I expect that a trade or two will be made to shore up the areas of weakness. However, this team will not contend for anything until Kadri is ready to take over the first line. Bozak is a very good player, however he isn't a first line center. After watching him for so long, it's clear to me that he is a half step behind JVR and Kessel. Keep in mind that JVR is young too. While Kadri was on the first line, they were awkward and didn't play well defensively. They will learn that though. There really is only one question when it comes to the top two lines, and that is whether or not Kadri can become a first line center or not. If he can, and play the two way brand of hockey that is required of top line centers, then this team will be a champion eventually. If not, they won't. As for the defense, will Reilly become a #1 defenseman? The same answer that applies to Kadri, applies here too.
U do know Kadri doesnt need to be with Kessel to be number 1 C? Right?
Why not create 2 good lines?
However i think Simmonds type player on Kadri's line would solve many issues
Why not create 2 good lines?
However i think Simmonds type player on Kadri's line would solve many issues
I don't understand the bozo love for 2C. Has anyone seen bozak play without Kessel? Do you guys really think Bozak is capable of replicating his production this season without Kessel on a wing with him?
Bozo has not done anything his entire career except this season. He gets love for just showing up for one season?
His value IMO is the highest it ever will be. Move him now. He is 28 years old and by the time our youth is ready to compete Bozo will be about 31 to 32. Better have youth that meshes with the team than holding on to someone that is not going to be relevant when we are really good team.
*assuming this dumbheaded management does the right thing and shows patience with the youth
Bozo has not done anything his entire career except this season. He gets love for just showing up for one season?
His value IMO is the highest it ever will be. Move him now. He is 28 years old and by the time our youth is ready to compete Bozo will be about 31 to 32. Better have youth that meshes with the team than holding on to someone that is not going to be relevant when we are really good team.
*assuming this dumbheaded management does the right thing and shows patience with the youth
hotpaws
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2009
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I agree Bozak's production would plummet if he was removed from PK's line as well well as the 1st pp unit . IMO he's a 2nd-3rd line tweener who should be moved if we can find a suitable replacement but he does serve a purpose at this time .
Stastny is gonna cost 6.5-7 per and he is also close to 30. ROR is 23, and we don't have the assets that Col. would want for a trade to be worked out unless they want Phaneuf. An offersheet is about the only option IMO but as somebody pointed out we don't have our second which i did not realize we had to have in order to make an offer sheet. While the offersheet would be in the 6.5-7 he would be a point a game player between JVR AND KESSEL, plus his two way game is something we sorely need and would take some of the heat off our defence. Now is he a Getz, Malkin, Crosby, etc. no but at 1.5 million plus cheaper than most of the Elite center's he is still would be an upgrade over Bozak and we could lock him up until he is 30.
Isn't anyone excited to see what Kadri is capable of with any of the skilled forwards available in this years draft? Ehlers Kadri would be dangerous. Maybe even Virtanen with Kadri
I will be excited if the has beens and players >= 28 years old were shipped. Play the kids!!!
Wanna see Shanahan roll with this Mantra
613Leafer
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- May 26, 2008
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Youth for youth trades are things we should be open to.
In the past, Gardiner for ROR, or Gardiner for Couturier, or Gardiner to trade up in last years draft to get a prospect like Monahan, etc. were the types of proposals that some people were interested in, but who some other people were absolutely 100% against because "Gardiner could be the next Niedermayer".
Well that's like saying Luke Schenn could be the next Scott Stevens, or David Rundblad could be the next Lidstrom, or Goligoski could be the next Player X. I'm pretty sure we don't regret trading our young former 5th OA player for JVR, Ottawa doesn't regret trading Rundblad for Turris, and Pittsburgh doesn't regret trading Goligoski for Neal+Niskanen.
We shouldn't be trying to trade Kadri/Gardiner/etc for 30+ year old players. But there's no reason we should be close-minded to the idea of targeting similarly aged players with similar ceilings who would simply fill a team need better.
In the past, Gardiner for ROR, or Gardiner for Couturier, or Gardiner to trade up in last years draft to get a prospect like Monahan, etc. were the types of proposals that some people were interested in, but who some other people were absolutely 100% against because "Gardiner could be the next Niedermayer".
Well that's like saying Luke Schenn could be the next Scott Stevens, or David Rundblad could be the next Lidstrom, or Goligoski could be the next Player X. I'm pretty sure we don't regret trading our young former 5th OA player for JVR, Ottawa doesn't regret trading Rundblad for Turris, and Pittsburgh doesn't regret trading Goligoski for Neal+Niskanen.
We shouldn't be trying to trade Kadri/Gardiner/etc for 30+ year old players. But there's no reason we should be close-minded to the idea of targeting similarly aged players with similar ceilings who would simply fill a team need better.
Pens already have their core: crosby, malkin, letang
Also, they are contrnding team.
Leafs have no core.forget about contending leafs are not even a playoff team.
I would rather trade players >=28 years old bring in youth and let youth gell together.
Giving youth for youth while holding on to declining players while not contending is bad management IMO.
Patience for youth needs to be exercised while ridding aging players: lupul, bozak, clarkson, phaneuf, gleason, etc...
We are not a team that requires retool we are a team that requires overhaul.
613Leafer
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- May 26, 2008
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I'm down for that as well.
I'm just saying youth for youth isn't something we should be deadset against. You can even do an overhaul and pull off a youth for youth trade at the same time.
That mentality of never moving youth, even for other youth, means we would have a bottom-pairing dman in Luke Schenn on this roster today instead of a top line winger in JVR.
Totally agree!
However, i really want the old stiffs moved first. Historically leafs as an organization have had a tendency to hold on to mediocre players.
Players like Bozak have to be dealt now because their value is as high as it ever will be. Same with dion, lupul, clarkson etc... Dont expect them to be better they are regressing so cash on now before moving youth for youth is my 1st option.
I dont expect Kadri or Gardiner to fetch great returns. Rielly will i think but want to hold on to assets like Rielly. It is about time we start a new building block. Rielly is the one for me.
Kessel's 5 years were wasted by the leafs management. I hope they dont do the same with Rielly. I hope i got my point across well. Its a pain to type on an iphone
.Its just baffling to me when people suggest that we should get a 1C and put Bozo as 2C. As I had said before no one knows how he would perform without Kessel.
Kadri has already out produced Bozo in his 1st full NHL season without Kessel on his wing, without getting no. 1 PP unit
As the title of this thread says: We have to exercise patience with our youth. It has gotta be done for long term sustained success
Totally agree!
However, i really want the old stiffs moved first. Historically leafs as an organization have had a tendency to hold on to mediocre players.
Players like Bozak have to be dealt now because their value is as high as it ever will be. Same with dion, lupul, clarkson etc... Dont expect them to be better they are regressing so cash on now before moving youth for youth is my 1st option.
I dont expect Kadri or Gardiner to fetch great returns. Rielly will i think but want to hold on to assets like Rielly. It is about time we start a new building block. Rielly is the one for me.
Kessel's 5 years were wasted by the leafs management. I hope they dont do the same with Rielly. I hope i got my point across well. Its a pain to type on an iphone
To what I bolded.
Depends what you consider great,no?
A Kadri/Gards for Sean Couturier would interest me.
And Kadri did it this year while babysitting Clarkson. Give him a full year with Kessel, and the chemistry would thrive.
Bozak looks very sub par when he has been separated from Kessel. First line scores a lot, but also gives up a lot. And often gets dominated in our end. Line doesn't really have a good possession player.
The biggest culprits on this team are the vets, not the rookies. I'm okay with exercising patience with our youth but at the same time, that doesn't mean that there are similar aged players who are better than the ones we have. If an opportunity presents itself to acquire a better young player, there's nothing wrong with making that deal.
Agreed. We gave all our vets long term deals and now they won't care too much about how they perform.
Also we've been waiting since 67.
hockeyes
Registered User
- Jun 15, 2013
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Dion/Lupul should be shopped hard, both show no signs of being able to keep up in a few years, assuming they can even now. Dion is gassed after 60 games.. and a 2 week break. Lupul either is lazy and doesn't do much or plays hard and gets hurt in a game or two.
Players with lighting speed who put up 80 points a season and lead the olympics in scoring are building blocks.
That's what they thought Clarkson would be. They tried to force him with Kadri a ton this year.
Totally agree with this. Time to break up the Kessel-Bozak marriage and sell high on Bozie.
I have zero faith in Dave Nonis and his blind loyalty to Carlyle. Literally catering every move to him just because he hired him in Manitoba and wants him to succeed. The way Nonis, Poulin, Loiselle see hockey is pretty much the opposite of the way most front offices see hockey these days. I wish that I felt the same as you, but I don't. If Carlyle is brought back I think there will be another offseason dedicated to getting him his guys. Who are usually big and slow guys.
Leafidelity
Best Sport/Worst League
Yes, it's completely ridiculous.
There couldn't possibly be any other team in the league who would think Kessel wouldn't be a building block for their team.
Right?
I guess that applies to Tyler Seguin and Joe Thornton aswell?
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I think the Leafs are actually doing a good with exercising patience with youth actually.
Everyone was screaming for Kadri to be in the NHL long before he was but holding him back looks like it was the right move and was actually no different then the treatment given to guys like Marchand, Roy, Ribiero, Pacioretty.
The biggest area the Leafs need to get better in is managing assets by recycling assets instead of losing them for nothing well rebuilding, retooling or whatever people want to call it. Losing CMac, Grabo, Kulemin (probably) for nothing instead of trading them a few years ago was awful asset management. As did giving up valuable picks for Liles, O'Bryen, Bolland.
Well lots of people want to promote every secondary youngster to a prominent role after a bit of AHL success long before they are ready instead of patiently developing and using call ups to slowly groom players the Leafs have actually been developing prospects patiently.
Before people say Granberg, Percy should be with the team out of training camp they should consider this:
Granberg: 75 AHL games
Percy: 77 AHL games
One AHL season is far from a player being over ripe and giving players call ups opportunities is the best way to groom them into eventually taking over a full time NHL role like Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh did with the following:
Hjalmarsson: 111 AHL games
Keith: 168 AHL games
Kronwall: 102 AHL games
Ericsson: 183 AHL games
Orpik: 182 AHL games
Scuderi: 191 AHL games
At forwards Holland is clearly to good for the AHL and won't benefit much if anything more out of playing there and now needs NHL minutes to continue growing. He is the only youngster that without a doubt who deserves a permant promotion but he has done his AHL time just like Kadri did.
Ashton, D'Amigo, Abbott are quickly approaching that age in their careers where they can't really develop much more in the AHL (similar to the situation Holland was in this seson but they just don't have as much potential) and need to make the jump soon but with two way contracts I expect these guys to be given a lets see the 3 of you battle it out for the final spot or 1st call up chance next season which that competition is good for us. May the best man win!
Guys like Carrick, Leivo, McKegg could all benefit from more AHL time next season.
McClement: 174 AHL games
Bickell: 245 AHL games
Vitale: 167 AHL (after a full NCAA stint)
Byfuglein: 134 AHL games
Everyone was screaming for Kadri to be in the NHL long before he was but holding him back looks like it was the right move and was actually no different then the treatment given to guys like Marchand, Roy, Ribiero, Pacioretty.
The biggest area the Leafs need to get better in is managing assets by recycling assets instead of losing them for nothing well rebuilding, retooling or whatever people want to call it. Losing CMac, Grabo, Kulemin (probably) for nothing instead of trading them a few years ago was awful asset management. As did giving up valuable picks for Liles, O'Bryen, Bolland.
Well lots of people want to promote every secondary youngster to a prominent role after a bit of AHL success long before they are ready instead of patiently developing and using call ups to slowly groom players the Leafs have actually been developing prospects patiently.
Before people say Granberg, Percy should be with the team out of training camp they should consider this:
Granberg: 75 AHL games
Percy: 77 AHL games
One AHL season is far from a player being over ripe and giving players call ups opportunities is the best way to groom them into eventually taking over a full time NHL role like Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh did with the following:
Hjalmarsson: 111 AHL games
Keith: 168 AHL games
Kronwall: 102 AHL games
Ericsson: 183 AHL games
Orpik: 182 AHL games
Scuderi: 191 AHL games
At forwards Holland is clearly to good for the AHL and won't benefit much if anything more out of playing there and now needs NHL minutes to continue growing. He is the only youngster that without a doubt who deserves a permant promotion but he has done his AHL time just like Kadri did.
Ashton, D'Amigo, Abbott are quickly approaching that age in their careers where they can't really develop much more in the AHL (similar to the situation Holland was in this seson but they just don't have as much potential) and need to make the jump soon but with two way contracts I expect these guys to be given a lets see the 3 of you battle it out for the final spot or 1st call up chance next season which that competition is good for us. May the best man win!
Guys like Carrick, Leivo, McKegg could all benefit from more AHL time next season.
McClement: 174 AHL games
Bickell: 245 AHL games
Vitale: 167 AHL (after a full NCAA stint)
Byfuglein: 134 AHL games
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