OT: EX Bruins Discussion Thread...All Talk Here..

[Era of Sanity]

They have to show more patience with young talent. Art Ross and probably the hart trophy winner this year Patrick Kane is certainly not known as a choir boy but I bet you Chicago Blackhawks management, winner of 3 of the last 6 stanley cups, is glad they didn't trade him.

Sure tough love, yell at them or whatever but you have to show patience with talents like Seguin. He did not ask to be traded. Normally to get a talent like that you have to go into a rebuild and be one of the worse teams in the league for a stretch of time.

As we have seen, the room full of character guys just choked and missed the playoffs all together.

 

[LouJersey]

It's all Bergeron's fault. He spoke up for Claude to management, that nefarious little weasel.

Too bad he can't get his message across to the rest of the team to play like he does.

 

[member 96824]

Seguin was responsible for getting himself traded.

Hamilton was responsible for getting himself traded.

Smith was responsible for getting himself traded.


All for different reasons, but if not for themselves, they might all still be here?

No room at all for self reflection?

Come on Joe, there's one constant here. The Bruins. Can't keep avoiding every mirror we see. This franchise needs to take a deep look into their management and leadership. It's not as simple as "oh well just trade Reilly Smith and bring in someone who will try harder"

At what point do we get tired of the same "well this years team will care more than last year and at least be fun to watch. X didn't fit into the locker room so **** him" line before the franchise takes a deep, self reflecting look at the way THEY conduct business? How many prospects need to be wasted and 2nd-3rd year players need to be traded?

There's no alternate universe where we'll wake up and Dougie, Seguin, etc. will be back on the Bruins and the trades undone....but this franchise fails to learn from its mistakes and continues to repeat them over and over and over and that's where the real issue lies. I don't care about what rumor comes up regarding Reilly Smith and why the Bruins "had" to trade him. It doesn't matter. If you've got a carousel of young players who come into the locker room, fail to be embraced or fit in, and get dealt for pennies on the dollar...who is that really on? Each individual player? Ignore the trend line completely and just cross your fingers the next one will work out? What universe does that make any sense? We're about to bring in an influx of young players..if management and leadership don't reflect on the way they operate, who's next? Pastrnak? Senyshyn? Heinen? It's not about the last guy, it's about the next guy.

No player gets themselves traded. Ask Jonathan Drouin. You can't just absolve the front office from any bad trade for whatever excuse you can find. The front office still has to make the deal. If the front office has zero vision and is just flying by night making reactionary trades, that would be extremely alarming.

Fact: I saw Everett Mike at the Red Sox game yesterday and the first words out of his mouth were "I hate Loui Eriksson".

I think we need to get the poor guy some help.

We should get a GoFundMe going for him. For 15 little cents you can put Mike's pain to rest

 

[Artemis]

Too bad he can't get his message across to the rest of the team to play like he does.

Are you serious? Bergeron's a weasel! Expecting young players to give it their all and dedicate themselves to the game, and rise to the challenge of a demanding coach? That's just mean!

 

[Hali33]

No room at all for self reflection?

Come on Joe, there's one constant here. The Bruins. Can't keep avoiding every mirror we see. This franchise needs to take a deep look into their management and leadership. It's not as simple as "oh well just trade Reilly Smith and bring in someone who will try harder"

At what point do we get tired of the same "well this years team will care more than last year and at least be fun to watch. X didn't fit into the locker room so **** him" line before the franchise takes a deep, self reflecting look at the way THEY conduct business? How many prospects need to be wasted and 2nd-3rd year players need to be traded?

No player gets themselves traded. Ask Jonathan Drouin. You can't just absolve the front office from any bad trade for whatever excuse you can find. The front office still has to make the deal. If the front office has zero vision and is just flying by night making reactionary trades, that would be extremely alarming.



We should get a GoFundMe going for him. For 15 little cents you can put Mike's pain to rest

Great to have you back here. Excellent post.

 

[Trap Jesus]

I'm sure it's been said somewhere in here, but Smith has more career playoff goals than Seguin despite playing 15 games to Seguin's 49.

 

[Over the volcano]

No room at all for self reflection?

Come on Joe, there's one constant here. The Bruins. Can't keep avoiding every mirror we see. This franchise needs to take a deep look into their management and leadership. It's not as simple as "oh well just trade Reilly Smith and bring in someone who will try harder"

At what point do we get tired of the same "well this years team will care more than last year and at least be fun to watch. X didn't fit into the locker room so **** him" line before the franchise takes a deep, self reflecting look at the way THEY conduct business? How many prospects need to be wasted and 2nd-3rd year players need to be traded?

No player gets themselves traded. Ask Jonathan Drouin. You can't just absolve the front office from any bad trade for whatever excuse you can find. The front office still has to make the deal. If the front office has zero vision and is just flying by night making reactionary trades, that would be extremely alarming.



We should get a GoFundMe going for him. For 15 little cents you can put Mike's pain to rest

I think they do this though- and its not a bad thing to move on from players who don't want to be here and would rather chase other things (money, locations, coaching styles, tails). I certainly don't get the impression that this club has no vision right now and is being reactionary.

Drouin is an interesting example- not so sure that club, on the verge of losing the best player they've ever had and receiving zilch in return - is the best case for how to manage players who are less than invested in the organization and the city.

 

[Number8]

even the great detroit team sent adam oates away...

of course the far less great hartford team got rid of chris pronger.

but the very great montreal team thought it best to send chris chelious elsewhere.

chicago had no room for dominek hasek

and vancouver sort of thought cam neely was hot garbage

the islanders said zdeno chara was totally expendable.

bruins and julien dont own an exclusive franchise when it comes to moving hof talented kids for short sighted return. there isnt a franchise in the entire league that doesnt have this skeleton in its closet.

none of us like it... but it happens to everyone. deal with reality people

I agree. Those mighty Canadiens also thought it wise to ship out McDonough, Chelios, and Roy. Several Cups for the last two after they left Habs.

And that's just off the top of my head..... there are literally dozens around the league.

 

[Number8]

They have to show more patience with young talent. Art Ross and probably the hart trophy winner this year Patrick Kane is certainly not known as a choir boy but I bet you Chicago Blackhawks management, winner of 3 of the last 6 stanley cups, is glad they didn't trade him.

Sure tough love, yell at them or whatever but you have to show patience with talents like Seguin. He did not ask to be traded. Normally to get a talent like that you have to go into a rebuild and be one of the worse teams in the league for a stretch of time.

As we have seen, the room full of character guys just choked and missed the playoffs all together.

Can we agree that Tyler Seguin was not traded because he wasn't developing and because we didn't think he'd amount to anything?

Disagree with the trade -- fine.
Disagree with the return -- fine.

However, there was a LOT in play in that situation. Maybe people don't agree with how it was managed, but he was not shifted out because he was withering under Claude.

 

[member 96824]

I think they do this though- and its not a bad thing to move on from players who don't want to be here and would rather chase other things (money, locations, coaching styles, tails). I certainly don't get the impression that this club has no vision right now and is being reactionary.

Drouin is an interesting example- not so sure that club, on the verge of losing the best player they've ever had and receiving zilch in return - is the best case for how to manage players who are less than invested in the organization and the city.

Of course, and I'm not say never trade a player ever or that no off ice factors should be in play. But just this notion that leadership has no part and that all blame should be reflected to those players that were dealt I highly disagree with, respectfully.

We have been talking about this trend since 2004, but even more so in the last 5 years or so. There's a cause for the trend, and I just believe it's the consistent factor..not the variable one...but even if it's not, it needs a strong looking at. I don't know if they're doing that or not, but I think we'll have more to the story tomorrow at least from the management perspective

And thanks Hali! Good to be back...I think.

 

[KnightofBoston]

They have to show more patience with young talent. Art Ross and probably the hart trophy winner this year Patrick Kane is certainly not known as a choir boy but I bet you Chicago Blackhawks management, winner of 3 of the last 6 stanley cups, is glad they didn't trade him.

Sure tough love, yell at them or whatever but you have to show patience with talents like Seguin. He did not ask to be traded. Normally to get a talent like that you have to go into a rebuild and be one of the worse teams in the league for a stretch of time.

As we have seen, the room full of character guys just choked and missed the playoffs all together.

Massive difference between seguin and kane though, one performs in the playoffs, the other does not.


It's a shame seguin is injured because I was looking for him ttake the next step in these playoffs. As it stands, he's still nothing more than a regular season warrior, and for all we know, will always be one.

The return on the deal is the real issue, but if seguin never gets the playoff monkey off his back, the question isn't "did the Bruins give him enough time and support?" And is truly "why didn't the Bruins try to get more for him"

I fault the Bruins groupthink for undervaluing him and then selling low. But I don't think this team would be any closer to a second stanley cup today with seguin on the team, or Reilly smith for that matter

 

[Over the volcano]

Of course, and I'm not say never trade a player ever or that no off ice factors should be in play. But just this notion that leadership has no part and that all blame should be reflected to those players that were dealt I highly disagree with, respectfully.

We have been talking about this trend since 2004, but even more so in the last 5 years or so. There's a cause for the trend, and I just believe it's the consistent factor..not the variable one...but even if it's not, it needs a strong looking at. I don't know if they're doing that or not, but I think we'll have more to the story tomorrow at least from the management perspective

And thanks Hali! Good to be back...I think.

Oh totally. I don't think all the blame goes anywhere- or even that blame should be the point. It's about everyone getting to where they want to be (players and management) and making sure you're building assets to make the club the best it can be.

It is interesting to see that the guys who were moved were high picks they couldn't pass up and also to see all he young talent that chooses to come here when they have options elsewhere (Wheeler, and more recently Krug, Vatrano, Acciari, Czarnik, Hickman, Vesey?).

 

[whatsbruin]

I say CJ is the guy to blame.

All three guys are flourishing with their new team. I mean we got robbed in all three trades (we won't definitely know with the Hamilton trade until 2-3 years later, but we are currently the losers)

Forget about the GMs who tried to get the best value in return. Why did the trades even occur in the 1st place??

CJ is a drill sergeant who is bad at working with/encouraging/developing young talent. Some who are compatible with his personality/system and listen to him to tee , are fine. But if you are not "perfect" to his likings , see you later.

Seguin - why was he not given full timr chance to play center?? That is his natural and preferred position. Also bc of a few sleep ins , sent to the doghouse and eventually traded.

Hamilton - he didnt want to be here. Nobody knows the real reason. CJ could of got the bottom of the issue and made Hamilton feel more at ease. Instead , nothing, Hamilton requested to be traded

Smith - inconsistent but his confidence was destroyed by CJ eventually. Also rumors that he struggle " inside" the dressing room . traded. Now leading pt scorer in the playoffs for the panthers


Thank you CJ.

It appears the B's gave up way to early on Sequin and Smith, and those trades were bad. They were made because Mngmt were not happy with their development. Would both, or either have flourished here had they stayed ? No way to tell.
The Wheeler trade, to me, is a different animal. He wasn't traded because of his
lack of development, it was to make the team stronger for the playoffs. Got to give to get.

 

[KnightofBoston]

I think a lot of blame lies with management, but not in the way might initially think

I think the Bruins have done a poor job in the past evaluating the mental game of their players.

They need to focus on drafting guys that will go to war for the spoked b but also have skill

This is one reason I think Pastrnak has done well and I see him as an integral part of this team's rebuild. He has skill but also lays it on the line and has the mental strength to provide a strong bench/lockeroom presence and be a team player.

All of the young talented players traded out of boston had attitude/aloofness issues. Kessel we all know w ll about. Seguin was a good team guy I think but also very immature off ice and caused ripples with another teammate, reilly reportedly did not like to spend time with the team, and Hamilton as it turns out is a giant baby. I fault the players yes, but these are also essentially kids we are talking about. It's unacceptable for a professional organization to continuously miss the mark on mental evaluation and pick guys that will eventually not fit in with the culture you are trying to build and or you are too inept to break these guys down and build them up the way you want.

I am noticing a better trend as far as who they are drafting with respect to this mental game im poorly trying to outline since Sweeney came in so we'll see

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

at what point does the team you could ice with former Bruins look better than the team you can ice with current Bruins? Are we almost there?

Lucic-Seguin-Smith
Wheeler-Jumbo Joe-Kessel
????-Sobotka-????
????-????-Shawny Dangles

????-Boychuk
????-Dougie
Warsofsky-????

Jones
Johnson

Fill in the blanks. Who am I missing?

 

[Number8]

I think a lot of blame lies with management, but not in the way might initially think

I think the Bruins have done a poor job in the past evaluating the mental game of their players.

They need to focus on drafting guys that will go to war for the spoked b but also have skill

This is one reason I think Pastrnak has done well and I see him as an integral part of this team's rebuild. He has skill but also lays it on the line and has the mental strength to provide a strong bench/lockeroom presence and be a team player.

All of the young talented players traded out of boston had attitude/aloofness issues. Kessel we all know w ll about. Seguin was a good team guy I think but also very immature off ice and caused ripples with another teammate, reilly reportedly did not like to spend time with the team, and Hamilton as it turns out is a giant baby. I fault the players yes, but these are also essentially kids we are talking about. It's unacceptable for a professional organization to continuously miss the mark on mental evaluation and pick guys that will eventually not fit in with the culture you are trying to build and or you are too inept to break these guys down and build them up the way you want.

I am noticing a better trend as far as who they are drafting with respect to this mental game im poorly trying to outline since Sweeney came in so we'll see

Agree completely.

Pasta looks like he generally loves to play the game and appears to have a thick enough skin to go through growing pains. Can't teach that very well and agree that part of the development process needs to be focused on securing guys who will go through walls (mentally, not necessarily physically although that's nice too).

 

[DKH]

I'm sure it's been said somewhere in here, but Smith has more career playoff goals than Seguin despite playing 15 games to Seguin's 49.

not fair because Seguin played over 30 playoff games under Claude

also, Tyler Seguin played the single best period of hockey I have ever seen with no disrespect to Bobby Orr, when he scored 2 goals and had 2 assists in the pivotal second period of game 2 vs Tampa

Tyler Seguin in that one game earned lifetime Bruins to me

one of the best 2 or 3 games I have ever seen and Seguin made it happen

 

[TP]

not fair because Seguin played over 30 playoff games under Claude

also, Tyler Seguin played the single best period of hockey I have ever seen with no disrespect to Bobby Orr, when he scored 2 goals and had 2 assists in the pivotal second period of game 2 vs Tampa

Tyler Seguin in that one game earned lifetime Bruins to me

one of the best 2 or 3 games I have ever seen and Seguin made it happen

Oh hell yes. I agree. That period won us a cup.

 

[DKH]

at what point does the team you could ice with former Bruins look better than the team you can ice with current Bruins? Are we almost there?

Lucic-Seguin-Smith
Wheeler-Jumbo Joe-Kessel
????-Sobotka-????
????-????-Shawny Dangles

????-Boychuk
????-Dougie
Warsofsky-????

Jones
Johnson

Fill in the blanks. Who am I missing?

Mark Stuart and Kamper

Roussel and Glendening would be great 4th liners but Butch Cassidy released both from Providence even though I am on record as like Rousell's game when he played

 

[Over the volcano]

not fair because Seguin played over 30 playoff games under Claude

also, Tyler Seguin played the single best period of hockey I have ever seen with no disrespect to Bobby Orr, when he scored 2 goals and had 2 assists in the pivotal second period of game 2 vs Tampa

Tyler Seguin in that one game earned lifetime Bruins to me

one of the best 2 or 3 games I have ever seen and Seguin made it happen

Its amazing to me that that game and the 1-0 game 7 with no penalties were in the same playoff series.

Both so awesome and as different as games could be.

 

[Over the volcano]

at what point does the team you could ice with former Bruins look better than the team you can ice with current Bruins? Are we almost there?

Lucic-Seguin-Smith
Wheeler-Jumbo Joe-Kessel
????-Sobotka-????
????-????-Shawny Dangles

????-Boychuk
????-Dougie
Warsofsky-????

Jones
Johnson

Fill in the blanks. Who am I missing?

Jagr, Iginla

 

[DKH]

Oh hell yes. I agree. That period won us a cup.

it did

I been to a thousand games live and I walked out of there like I just watched the Beatles in their prime

that game, that series, that playoffs was like the Harry Potters series- ups, downs, surprises, just an incredible 2 months that can not possibly be replicated

Seguin will always be a huge part of that team even if it was pretty much that game- I don't care if it was one game it was as good as you can get

 

[DKH]

Its amazing to me that that game and the 1-0 game 7 with no penalties were in the same playoff series.

Both so awesome and as different as games could be.

game three in Tampa was amazing as well, Bruins won 2-0 then lose a game that Krejci had a hat trick and another they were up 3-0 after one period

one of craziest playoffs series ever- even more nuts than the last one

all 4 series were so different and had themes to them

best two months of hockey ever seen going back to even the Orr teams

 

[LouJersey]

Are you serious? Bergeron's a weasel! Expecting young players to give it their all and dedicate themselves to the game, and rise to the challenge of a demanding coach? That's just mean!

Not mean, just get rid of all of em. Not sure where that's gotten us the past three years though.

We need more in your face players than lead by example. Or maybe players that can do both. Sick of this team choking.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

it did

I been to a thousand games live and I walked out of there like I just watched the Beatles in their prime

that game, that series, that playoffs was like the Harry Potters series- ups, downs, surprises, just an incredible 2 months that can not possibly be replicated

Seguin will always be a huge part of that team even if it was pretty much that game- I don't care if it was one game it was as good as you can get

the thing is...even if it was just a couple of big games in that series...he was still only 19 I think. It was a glimpse of what he would become. Winning the cup was so sweet, but it was especially sweet knowing we had a future franchise forward already on the team and drafted a kid like Dougie just a few days later. It makes me genuinely sad to see how far we've fallen from those days.