Rumor: Everything JT Miller | Elias Pettersson trade Thread

[Peter Griffin]

It’s not a coincidence or some tinfoil theory he does better when Miller is out, it’s because he gets better f***ing linemates

Most importantly, he gets to play with Quinn Hughes and not Soucy/Myers.

 

[NeoCanuck]

Or the best option being putting Miller and Pettersson on their own separate line and grab a solid 2C for the Canucks. Put Debrusk on Pettersson and Boeser's line.

That's been happening all season. The Lotto Line hasn't been put back together, beyond very small situations at the end of periods.

 

[Three On Zero]

Most importantly, he gets to play with Quinn Hughes and not Soucy/Myers.

I wish the hockey world would somehow get a Makar/Hughes pairing

 

[Chet Manley]

Missed this nugget in the op because f*** Musk. But this is just mindblowingly deep analysis here lol:

"There's really three [options]: Neither gets dealt, one of them gets dealt, or both get dealt. That's on the table. I don't want to predict the likelihood of any particular scenario, but all three of those outcomes are possible."

 

[Diablo2020]

I do think Canuck fans are overvaluing Pettersson when it comes to his trade value because of his contract. He is due 10 million in bonus July 1st when his NMC kicks in. If the Canucks don't want to pay it then its gonna put a dent in his value.

That being said I don't think Pettersson gets traded because JT Miller is too old. To trade a 26 year old and then to rely on a 31 year old to lead the team is very risky

I think 11.6 is crazy for Elias, personally.

But NHL GM's will not. He's the fifth highest today and it sucks, he'll be outside the top 10 by this offseason, and probably around the 30th highest paid in a calendar year.

Three years from now when he's 29 and hopefully put up multiple 100 point seasons for his new team, 11.6 will be what every PPG player gets.

Plus as an owner today, hes already been paid his bonus and only makes 2.5 so you probably save money NOW while selling a buttload of Petey merch before that 10m is due next season.

And Miller wont be leading the team. It'll still be Hughes, whatever talent we get back from the trade, and whatever we do with Petey's 11.6 capspace. One way or another we will address the center position even if we kept Miller around.

 

[Fatass]

Every person can relate this scenario to many comparables none of which are exactly spot on but theres a bunch ya.

Maybe this is our Matt Duchene scenario.

Maybe we're trading Matthew Tkachuk.

Every fan will have a different opinion.

I brought up Barry Pederson yesterday. 39 years later the Bruins still have Frederic and Peeke playing today from a trade 39 years ago. Cam Neely, Kyle McLaren (Iggy two picks later), Milan Lucic and still Frederic.

The leagues most elite PF, for every decade, for the last 40 years (ok maybe not frederic) if they made one other choice along the way.

I also referenced Bure. Who ushered in the westcoast express era for Vancouver and gave us Jovo even though we "lost" the og trade.

This could also be Jack Eichel 2.0, as others have said.

I personally have always been on the trade Petey train so this is just my heyday lately.

All good points. Would you rather have Benning or Rutherford/Allvin making these difficult decisions?

 

[toddkaz]

I think 11.6 is crazy for Elias, personally.

But NHL GM's will not. He's the fifth highest today and it sucks, he'll be outside the top 10 by this offseason, and probably around the 30th highest paid in a calendar year.

Three years from now when he's 29 and hopefully put up multiple 100 point seasons for his new team, 11.6 will be what every PPG player gets.

Plus as an owner today, hes already been paid his bonus and only makes 2.5 so you probably save money NOW while selling a buttload of Petey merch before that 10m is due next season.

And Miller wont be leading the team. It'll still be Hughes, whatever talent we get back from the trade, and whatever we do with Petey's 11.6 capspace. One way or another we will address the center position even if we kept Miller around.

The 10 million dollar bonus and 4.5 million probably puts him out of reach for Buffalo but I am just guessing. Some fans thing Pegula is cheap and some don't.

I actually think Buffalo and Vancouver make very good trade partners since Buffalo can afford to move one of Power or Byram.

I also believe Adams and Allvin have made trades with each other but not 100% certain he Stillman trade was him or not. Point being there is a history to begin a conversation.

 

[Diablo2020]

All good points. Would you rather have Benning or Rutherford/Allvin making these difficult decisions?

The mikael backlund and rasmus andersson thread below is a great example of how I feel.

As is the Barrie and Kuzmenko thread LOL.


If this were still Benning, id be very fearful of "veterans backlund and andy" being the duo to calm the sinking ship because truly they are both exactly what this team needs to calm things down.

Out would be Lekkerimaki, Willander, and like five 1st round picks because Benning was a clown and would double down on this core.

Or maybe he gets told no by Aqua in which case he pivots to Kuzy and Barrie as stopgaps, while still overpaying somehow.

Instead we have a great management group that has proven they can judge talent.

This core is stale, IMO. This is our chance to change things.

They didnt draft a single one of the core.

They have no true allegience to any.

Theyve already tried to trade Miller multiple times and even threatened Petey to Carolina.

I just hope they can find some defenseman cause its the one thing theyve failed at judging and aquiring thus far.

 

[Johnsie19]

That may be, but the cost would be more patatable for us where we can keep more of our assest and still get an elite type player.

Same with us haha. Not really how trades work.

 

[Diablo2020]

The 10 million dollar bonus and 4.5 million probably puts him out of reach for Buffalo but I am just guessing. Some fans thing Pegula is cheap and some don't.

I actually think Buffalo and Vancouver make very good trade partners since Buffalo can afford to move one of Power or Byram.

I also believe Adams and Allvin have made trades with each other but not 100% certain he Stillman trade was him or not. Point being there is a history to begin a conversation.

I probably have a post from like 2020 when I first questioned my dedication to Pettersson as a fan and immedietly signaled out Buffalo as a perfect fit.

Something about a Pettersson Dahlin combo that just looks and feels right.

I personally love Cozens and his contract.

I understand the downgrade from one to the other but unlike others I highly value the 4.5 million difference yet still having cap certainty for 6 years.

This team is icing Phil Di Guiseppe today.

In offseason we got Debrusk for 5.5.

In my head, Cozens and another Debrusk > Pettersson and Di Guiseppe

Not to mention whatever else we get on top of Cozens (ostlund, helenius, picks?)

Even if we give up the best player in the deal there is so many paths to being a better team.

 

[Johnsie19]

Petts isnt a surefire bet for 100 points. In fact that hes more likely to not hit a PPG pace. Hes had 1 elite season and 1 other at PPG. Thats a risk, especially when his GM and captain have confirmed theres issues.

hahah ya he basically set records every yr for scoring for his age. 102 two yrs ago. On pace for well over 100 again for the first 40 last yr. Then something happened. This yr Miller takes a dozen games off, Petey back on 100 point pace. So ya he's a bonafide no.1 talent. Small worts sure but easily one you bet on the talent. Certainly dont sell low on him.

 

[toddkaz]

I probably have a post from like 2020 when I first questioned my dedication to Pettersson as a fan and immedietly signaled out Buffalo as a perfect fit.

Something about a Pettersson Dahlin combo that just looks and feels right.

I personally love Cozens and his contract.

I understand the downgrade from one to the other but unlike others I highly value the 4.5 million difference yet still having cap certainty for 6 years.

This team is icing Phil Di Guiseppe today.

In offseason we got Debrusk for 5.5.

In my head, Cozens and another Debrusk > Pettersson and Di Guiseppe

Not to mention whatever else we get on top of Cozens (ostlund, helenius, picks?)

Even if we give up the best player in the deal there is so many paths to being a better team.

Cozens is a weird one. Previous 30 goal scorer and dominated the world cup last year for Canada. Feels like a change of scenery is exactly what he needs.

I don't think Pettersson gets Cozens and Power. I think something like Cozens + Top Prospect + 1st lottery protected(Top 10 pick)

Might get it done. Cozens would be a great fit for Vancouver and Pettersson for Buffalo.

 

[Johnsie19]

Agree to disagree, I suppose. I can't imagine NYI wanting EP, but offering Barzal for him. Same with Larkin, Suzuki, etc... If you're DET, it would only make sense to acquire EP to end up with him + Larkin. If WPG acquires him, it would be to have Schiefele + EP at C. If CAR did, it would be to have Aho + EP. As I have said, I don't actually think it's a good idea to trade him unless they really do have to get one of EP or Miller off the team. Don't forget, it is 100% VAN being pressured into making a deal to resolve this situation, if it really is that bad, so they don't have the advantage. I'm only proposing EP deals because I expect any Miller return to be very underwhelming relative to his raw value on the ice (age + contract + full NTC).

All I'm suggesting is that these barriers with a hypothetical EP trade could be overcome, simply because VAN is not obligated to keep what they get in return for EP if it's not a fit with staying competitive in a 3-6 year window, as they were shaping up to be when all this nonsense started.

And again, you seem like you're not looking at those trades in totality. DET's 1st will likely be in the 6-11 range, even if they add EP, which is extremely valuable (whether VAN makes the pick or not). The "1st for Granlund" deal includes clearing Desharnais as well, which is worth a fair bit (again, not saying it's 100% fair, just spitballing, really). The Romanov deal involves (for example) keeping the WPG 1st and Perfetti along with him, etc etc...

You can want Larkin+Petey or Barzal+Petey all you want but your idea that the Canucks should trade Petey for spare parts and then move those spare parts and their 1st in like 5 other deals to end up with like Romanov and some other garbage is so far gone it beyond belief.

The Canucks have some pressure to move one of them if the situation isn't fixable sure but they aren't under any actual timeline. And for those teams that might acquire an all star potential franchise cornerstone 26 yr old 1c in Petey they are going to want to act fast with their proposals because they aren't ever available. Eichel was the last and that came with far more issues than Petey has. And of course it's worked out great for Vegas and not so great for Buffalo.

I don't even want to entertain each deal individually because making 5+ separate multi player deals is just not realistic. It never happens and its not conducive to winning. Generally though all of your proposals individually aren't plausible for many reasons.

 

[Fatass]

The mikael backlund and rasmus andersson thread below is a great example of how I feel.

As is the Barrie and Kuzmenko thread LOL.


If this were still Benning, id be very fearful of "veterans backlund and andy" being the duo to calm the sinking ship because truly they are both exactly what this team needs to calm things down.

Out would be Lekkerimaki, Willander, and like five 1st round picks because Benning was a clown and would double down on this core.

Or maybe he gets told no by Aqua in which case he pivots to Kuzy and Barrie as stopgaps, while still overpaying somehow.

Instead we have a great management group that has proven they can judge talent.

This core is stale, IMO. This is our chance to change things.

They didnt draft a single one of the core.

They have no true allegience to any.

Theyve already tried to trade Miller multiple times and even threatened Petey to Carolina.

I just hope they can find some defenseman cause its the one thing theyve failed at judging and aquiring thus far.

So Benning?

 

[sxvnert]

Trading both for young talent wouldn't be the worst idea.

 

[Johnsie19]

Missed this nugget in the op because f*** Musk. But this is just mindblowingly deep analysis here lol:

"There's really three [options]: Neither gets dealt, one of them gets dealt, or both get dealt. That's on the table. I don't want to predict the likelihood of any particular scenario, but all three of those outcomes are possible."

I'm still not sure if it's satire or not. It's basically what Friedman says about everything but just taken to an even more absurd level.

 

[bruins4thecup65]

As much as I love the Canucks you’re trading a player that is pd $11m per season

He was good last year

There is no guarantee he will be good next year

Vancouver will get this years value of Petey, not last.

 

[Diablo2020]

Cozens is a weird one. Previous 30 goal scorer and dominated the world cup last year for Canada. Feels like a change of scenery is exactly what he needs.

I don't think Pettersson gets Cozens and Power. I think something like Cozens + Top Prospect + 1st lottery protected(Top 10 pick)

Might get it done. Cozens would be a great fit for Vancouver and Pettersson for Buffalo.

Over the last couple years ive probably thought of every possible Buffalo scenario.

At one point, Cozens being a RHC signed the exact same length as Miller gave me the ultimate 1-2 punch IF we moved away from Petey.

But things have changed, we desperately need defense. Plus we'd need a center that can play NOW.

And Miller staying longterm has gone to heck plus Terry is cheap.

My buffalo hopes are dwindling by the day all while it becomes a more realisitic destination, if that makes sense.

As a armchair fan I cant see a better shot in the arm for a team like Buffalo than taking a big swing and adding Petey though to show they mean business.

If they could keep Cozens somehow I have to believe Pettersson, Thomspon, Cozens couldnt be the scariest center corps in the league one thru three.

I also have thought about the Hall - Larsson trade and it just being Power straight up.

Everyone says Nucks lost their mind then 3 years from now we look like geniuses and it makes sense as Power becomes a mainstay.

I also like the idea of reuiniting Ostlund and Lekkerimaki. I also have a soft spot for RHC Helenius who plays a two way game and is already playing in NA. I also like top 10 picks where we can draft whatever we want.

So many ways it can go the teams are perfect I agree.

 

[Johnsie19]

Trading both for young talent wouldn't be the worst idea.

it absolutely would be. We have Hughes and Demko on sweetheart deals currently. Wasting yrs of that retooling/rebuilding because we traded two 1c would be a bad idea. If one has to go you take your lumps but trading both in a world where half the teams a looking for a top 6 center would be a disaster. Huggy would walk as soon as his contract ended.

 

[Rowlet]

As much as I love the Canucks you’re trading a player that is pd $11m per season

He was good last year

There is no guarantee he will be good next year

Vancouver will get this years value of Petey, not last.

That's how every trade works

 

[Diablo2020]

it absolutely would be. We have Hughes and Demko on sweetheart deals currently. Wasting yrs of that retooling/rebuilding because we traded two 1c would be a bad idea. If one has to go you take your lumps but trading both in a world where half the teams a looking for a top 6 center would be a disaster. Huggy would walk as soon as his contract ended.

Demko being on a sweetheart deal means nothing and has absolutely gone to heck in the last calendar year in case you hadnt noticed.

To quote varsity blues, "Things change Mox, Lanks is the starting goaltender now".

Mason McTavish and 11.6 million in capspace for example should be enough wiggle room to find a new center even in this centerless enviroment we live in.

Cole Sillinger and 6 million in capspace for example should be enough wiggle room to find a new center to replace Miller as well.

 

[Peter Griffin]

As much as I love the Canucks you’re trading a player that is pd $11m per season

He was good last year

There is no guarantee he will be good next year

Vancouver will get this years value of Petey, not last.

No they’ll get whatever a team is willing to give them.

 

[robes1]

Miller is obviously the one you want to trade. EP40 has a higher ceiling and 5 years younger.

 

[Coffee]

As much as I love the Canucks..

Do you really mean that?

 

[wintersej]

I think 11.6 is crazy for Elias, personally.

But NHL GM's will not. He's the fifth highest today and it sucks, he'll be outside the top 10 by this offseason, and probably around the 30th highest paid in a calendar year.

Three years from now when he's 29 and hopefully put up multiple 100 point seasons for his new team, 11.6 will be what every PPG player gets.

Plus as an owner today, hes already been paid his bonus and only makes 2.5 so you probably save money NOW while selling a buttload of Petey merch before that 10m is due next season.

And Miller wont be leading the team. It'll still be Hughes, whatever talent we get back from the trade, and whatever we do with Petey's 11.6 capspace. One way or another we will address the center position even if we kept Miller around.

Please list the 25 guys signing for more than 11.6 in the next year.

Miller is obviously the one you want to trade. EP40 has a higher ceiling and 5 years younger.

True but Miller is older and has a full NMC. You are gonna get WAY less back.