Rumor: Everything JT Miller | Elias Pettersson trade Thread | Part 409

[Habs Halifax]

There is no “latest noise”.

The only thing the two have said about each other is that there is no issue and it’s the media reaching.

Not trying to disrespect you, but I'm not sure I agree this is all fans/media generated. I do think the fans/media have increased it yes but it came from somewhere recently and that's hard to figure out.

 

[wintersej]

What you cited has nothing to do with play driving.

I mean the trend is the same if you look at shots for %, corsi %, scoring chance %, etc. The Canucks are underwater with EP or Miller on the ice without Quinn Hughes to drive play.

 

[sting101]

What we don't know is what causes this latest smoke? Correct? Something had to happen lately or is this just the Canucks doing their due diligence and the fans/media are spinning it? No idea

All I can do as a Habs fan is throw out some different type of proposals we can afford. If it don't meet what you are after, we can't go deeper. And we are not interested in Miller. If EP40 is traded, I'd like to know what other teams are offering and if we have a shot at matching or beating it. If we can't, we pass. That's probably our approach

We're not good trading partners. The only player who can replace the immediate (now to 2yr) impact and address our needs would be Suzuki.
I'm certain by looking at what you offered (and it would be mine if i was a Habs fan) that the intention would be to find that 1-2 punch C tandem with Suzuki now with Hutson being fantastic that makes you guys legit contenders with good surroundings.
We're not looking for a asset value collection. We would need a 20minute PP controlling all star C back or were done as contenders. We're not in the top tier currently and even a small step back makes us mushy middle with Hughes in his prime value years

 

[Three On Zero]

Not trying to disrespect you, but I'm not sure I agree this is all fans/media generated. I do think the fans/media have increased it yes but it came from somewhere recently and that's hard to figure out.

You said “players need to stop commenting about each other”. I’m saying they haven’t been commenting about each other.

The source is media exaggerating the typical locker room issues teams that are underperforming go through. Miller is a very upfront and straight forward person. But there is no indication it’s created some rift in the locker room or between the players. Like you said, if they start winning , this will go away.

 

[wintersej]

I would consider Zacha and Zadorov as the basis of a JT Miller package, but I think there would need to be a protected 1st rounder included.

I had suggested Carlo + Coyle + Poitras for Miller on the Bruins board and got cussed for underrating Bruins players.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You said “players need to stop commenting about each other”. I’m saying they haven’t been commenting about each other.

The source is media exaggerating the typical locker room issues teams that are underperforming go through. Miller is a very upfront and straight forward person. But there is no indication it’s created some rift in the locker room or between the players. Like you said, if they start winning , this will go away.

Sorry, but I don't believe this latest smoke is all media driven. Something else had to happen that we don't know about as fans. Way too much smoke for it all to be media/fans driven IMO.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I mean the trend is the same if you look at shots for %, corsi %, scoring chance %, etc. The Canucks are underwater with EP or Miller on the ice without Quinn Hughes to drive play.

Those are still on-ice stats, all of which are flawed proxies for individual impacts for play driving, especially when ignoring usage.

Its also not entirely true when it comes to Pettersson, who has a similar xGF% and HDCF% to Hughes when they play apart, despite Pettersson playing far heavier defensive minutes without Hughes than Hughes does without Pettersson.

 

[EP to EP back to EP]

I had suggested Carlo + Coyle + Poitras for Miller on the Bruins board and got cussed for underrating Bruins players.

That offer is basically Carlo for Miller. We already have plenty of bottom 6 players

 

[ginner classic]

I had suggested Carlo + Coyle + Poitras for Miller on the Bruins board and got cussed for underrating Bruins players.

Carlo or Zadorov alongside Zacha plus a high pick is what it would take from my perspective. Zads is a borderline cap dump , there to match contracts but useful from our perspective. Zacha is a decent 2nd line center. Pick compensates for quality.

 

[sting101]

Neither player is as good as pavel bure. Use that trade as the bar - then reduce the return a little.

Bure asked to be traded had blown his ACL a year and half before and was in a contract dispute with a year left before being able to walk
Following the 1997–98 season, Bure told newly appointed general manager Brian Burke that he would not play for the Canucks again, despite still having a year left in his contract worth. He then went public with the declaration, stating he intended to leave the club for "personal reasons". Bure did not report to the club the following season.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Carlo or Zadorov alongside Zacha plus a high pick is what it would take from my perspective. Zads is a borderline cap dump , there to match contracts but useful from our perspective. Zacha is a decent 2nd line center. Pick compensates for quality.

Zacha to me is not a guy you want at 2C. His numbers has improved with the Bruins but I would not be fooled by that. This season, he is a 40 pts center again (at best). He's more like a 3C and he's 27 in the heat of his prime. Zacha's draft pedigree days are long behind him. His career numbers are 0.53 pts/game and that's who he is at age 27 today

 

[krutovsdonut]

Reposting from the Hughes appreciation thread. Does this give y'all as much pause as it does me when thinking about big offers for EP and Miller?

View attachment 960338

that's actually impressive for miller and ep40 when you look at the rest of the canucks defensive lineup this season.

 

[Three On Zero]

Sorry, but I don't believe this latest smoke is all media driven. Something else had to happen that we don't know about as fans. Way too much smoke for it all to be media/fans driven IMO.

Again, what latest smoke?

 

[sting101]

It's always fun to muse about what package of what value can get a star C but it's also about as realistic and digestible as trading yours for the same when you are a team looking to improve vs retooling

People need to digest that comparing Eichel or Bure or ??? until the Canucks have a situation where a demand has been made (or a contract is expiring which is not a thing) that you are gonna have to give equal value to get.

I dont think there is a world where management would want to take away one of the best 1-2 punches at C for strengthening depth in other positions. It's what they have outlined with Hughes and Demko as the cornerstones to contend

Offer a top 50C in a viable contract and age group and start there. Everything else is not realistic.....yet

 

[Habs Halifax]

Again, what latest smoke?

I already said... Something had to happen lately that we don't know today. Too much smoke for this to be all media and fan spins.

 

[Three On Zero]

I already said... Something had to happen lately that we don't know today. Too much smoke for this to be all media and fan spins.

It’s been weeks since we’ve had any kind of update on this “situation”

 

[BruinsJoe]

I have been thinking that IF a Canucks/Bruins trade was going to happen, both teams would be sending guys down for cap purposes and then pulling the trigger AFTER the Mom's trip. On the main board I suggested any movement would start Sunday. Both teams send players to waivers today...

Is this step one?

Dont think Bruins will put the trigger on a trade like this

 

[The don godfather]

I would consider Zacha and Zadorov as the basis of a JT Miller package, but I think there would need to be a protected 1st rounder included.

No way bruins need prospects cupboards are empty.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's always fun to muse about what package of what value can get a star C but it's also about as realistic and digestible as trading yours for the same when you are a team looking to improve vs retooling

People need to digest that comparing Eichel or Bure or ??? until the Canucks have a situation where a demand has been made (or a contract is expiring which is not a thing) that you are gonna have to give equal value to get.

I dont think there is a world where management would want to take away one of the best 1-2 punches at C for strengthening depth in other positions. It's what they have outlined with Hughes and Demko as the cornerstones to contend

Offer a top 50C in a viable contract and age group and start there. Everything else is not realistic.....yet

This is the dilemma... what happens if the teams that call don't offer what the Canucks want for Pettersson and Miller's NMC also affects what he can return. Then what? Stay put and allow Pettersson's NMC to kick in July? Force both to live with each other? Not saying this is impossible... just laying out the potential circumstances.

What we don't know is how serious the Canucks are at trading one of them. What do you think the chances are?

 

[Coach Parker]

View attachment 960281

Looks like he's not really interested in playing for the Rangers either.

 

[sting101]

This is the dilemma... what happens if the teams that call don't offer what the Canucks want for Pettersson and Miller's NMC also affects what he can return. Then what? Stay put and allow Pettersson's NMC to kick in July? Force both to live with each other? Not saying this is impossible... just laying out the potential circumstances.

What we don't know is how serious the Canucks are at trading one of them.

At that point you're talking about a player that wants out. That changes everything.

Everything management has done to date is with Pettersson in the plans as the star C. Look at our drafts and development even. Unless there is an overwhelming desire to want out it's not happening without a deal that makes us better.

The whole issue "from my perspective" is that Miller is an outspoken (on peoples ass hot headed type) guy that knows his chances of being a winner as a key player are diminishing. He's over the top competitive and a throwback power forward type. He's been on Pettersson's ass
Pettersson on the other hand is a quiet cerebral guy that unfortunately got bad knee tendinitis and then wilted when it looked like we had a chance to contend. That combined with his new contract and expectations led to an apex of tensions between the 2. Lots of guys played hurt but refused to use it as an excuse while Pettersson did.

With certainty some things went down this year as this continued that's confirmed.

Miller was told to take a break (we don't know for certain)and learn to control himself or get his head right. He's been accountable for this and is forthright and honest and says he's all in and needs to be better..
Pettersson called out by Patrick Allvin has since taken ownership accountability and says he's all in and doesn't want to go.

While Pettersson is a calculated guy and may be just tendering platitudes the bottom line is for his contract and role he needs to be better for any team to contend or want him at the price Allvin would need to return.

Long answer but get over it nobody is getting traded unless they demand it or Hughes or management has had enough

Since Petterssonn came back he's looked like a 100pt Selke player. If we trade him we will regret it beyond imaginable.

This is just a adaption period for someone to mature learn to deal with playing hurt and being accountable to the team. Gaming social media making excuses and being mercurial on ice and not training hard enough in the off season is not acceptable for a top paid 26yr old on a team that wants to be the best.
If all these lessens are learned now and someone gets him as he becomes a man it's gonna be ugly. He got 100 pts in his sleep the year prior without good line mates and struggling on the PP somewhat. He's a savant defensively too.

I hope it blows over and nobody makes those demands.

 

[Habs Halifax]

At that point you're talking about a player that wants out. That changes everything.

Everything management has done to date is with Pettersson in the plans as the star C. Look at our drafts and development even. Unless there is an overwhelming desire to want out it's not happening without a deal that makes us better.

The whole issue "from my perspective" is that Miller is an outspoken (on peoples ass hot headed type) guy that knows his chances of being a winner as a key player are diminishing. He's over the top competitive and a throwback power forward type. He's been on Pettersson's ass
Pettersson on the other hand is a quiet cerebral guy that unfortunately got bad knee tendinitis and then wilted when it looked like we had a chance to contend. That combined with his new contract and expectations led to an apex of tensions between the 2. Lots of guys played hurt but refused to use it as an excuse while Pettersson did.

With certainty some things went down this year as this continued that's confirmed.

Miller was told to take a break (we don't know for certain)and learn to control himself or get his head right. He's been accountable for this and is forthright and honest and says he's all in and needs to be better..
Pettersson called out by Patrick Allvin has since taken ownership accountability and says he's all in and doesn't want to go.

While Pettersson is a calculated guy and may be just tendering platitudes the bottom line is for his contract and role he needs to be better for any team to contend or want him at the price Allvin would need to return.

Long answer but get over it nobody is getting traded unless they demand it or Hughes or management has had enough

Since Petterssonn came back he's looked like a 100pt Selke player. If we trade him we will regret it beyond imaginable.

This is just a adaption period for someone to mature learn to deal with playing hurt and being accountable to the team. Gaming social media making excuses and being mercurial on ice and not training hard enough in the off season is not acceptable for a top paid 26yr old on a team that wants to be the best.
If all these lessens are learned now and someone gets him as he becomes a man it's gonna be ugly. He got 100 pts in his sleep the year prior without good line mates and struggling on the PP somewhat. He's a savant defensively too.

I hope it blows over and nobody makes those demands.

Until the smoke clears (whoever created it), it's going to continue to be talked about. Hard to know how serious the Canucks are with trading one of them. From the outside looking in, if this extends past July 1st when Pettersson's NMC kicks in, the Canucks are not that worried about their petty arguments.

You hear panels and chit chat from former players about how you can't like everyone in the room all the time. So is this something that they can get over or is it something serious the Canucks want to manage out. Hard to know one way or another. If a trade happens, I think it's the Canucks management wanting this distraction to be done with. I just think that the Canucks prefer not to trade either of them

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

Bure asked to be traded had blown his ACL a year and half before and was in a contract dispute with a year left before being able to walk
Following the 1997–98 season, Bure told newly appointed general manager Brian Burke that he would not play for the Canucks again, despite still having a year left in his contract worth. He then went public with the declaration, stating he intended to leave the club for "personal reasons". Bure did not report to the club the following season.

Sounds like a dream compared to the Pettersson miller drama.

Anyways. Neither player is as good as bure. So I’m still thinking whatever he got as a trade but a little less.

 

[sting101]

Sounds like a dream compared to the Pettersson miller drama.

Anyways. Neither player is as good as bure. So I’m still thinking whatever he got as a trade but a little less.

And here i thought it might be worth a discussion....

Add context (not even from the salary cap era) and then ignore context....cool bra

Lets get the Bure deal but a little less...sounds wicked

 

[Peter Griffin]

Sounds like a dream compared to the Pettersson miller drama.

Anyways. Neither player is as good as bure. So I’m still thinking whatever he got as a trade but a little less.

That trade was over 25 years ago. You must be trolling.