Everything COVID19 - PART 4

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BankStreetParade

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Jan 22, 2013
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I'm skeptical of this research. I've personally been accused of being a bot on twitter. This crisis draws a lot of people back on the platform. Their accounts have been idle for years but they turn into twitter junkies over covid because they have strong, often negative, views about it. The people who tweet about what they had for lunch everyday then label them all as bots because they don't have a lot of followers or activity. And a big chunk or all of their total tweets are negative posts about covid.

Define that profile as a bot and yeah, it looks like there's a lot of them.
From the npr article:

Using a so-called bot-hunter tool, researchers flagged accounts that tweet more than is humanly possible or claim to be in multiple countries within a few hours' period. Researchers say they examine a Twitter account's followers, frequency of tweeting and how often the user is mentioned on the platform in determining whether the tweeter is a bot account.
...
Twitter says its automated systems have "challenged" 1.5 million accounts that were targeting discussions about COVID-19 with malicious or manipulative behavior.

Doesn't really match up with what you're saying. They have sophisticated software and don't seem to use much, if any, of the criteria you mentioned to determine if an account is real or likely not. In addition, Twitter is clearly aware there is a problem because they've challenged over a million different accounts for potentially being bots tweeting misinformation about Covid-19.
 
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DrEasy

Out rumptackling
Oct 3, 2010
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I'm skeptical of this research. I've personally been accused of being a bot on twitter. This crisis draws a lot of people back on the platform. Their accounts have been idle for years but they turn into twitter junkies over covid because they have strong, often negative, views about it. The people who tweet about what they had for lunch everyday then label them all as bots because they don't have a lot of followers or activity. And a big chunk or all of their total tweets are negative posts about covid.

Define that profile as a bot and yeah, it looks like there's a lot of them.
Wait, you're not a bot? J/K
 

Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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COVID-19: Daily epidemiologic summaries from Public Health Ontario

You'll have to pull up day by day but if you scroll down several pages (16-17) you'll see positive tests cumulative by public health region.

So for example on May 24th reporting (May 23rd data) Eastern Ontario had 2,514 and on May 23rd reporting they had 2,506 so 8 new cases.

Toronto (excluding a lot of suburbs and surrounding area) had 192 cases between those two days.

I'm sure there's raw data as well they compile to create these reports but I haven't really had time to look at data.ontario.ca or whatever their website is.

Thanks .. I did end up going to the data.ontario site and downloaded their case data (csv). basically has a row for each case in ontario with some basic info on the patient and the health unit ... so you can filter it sort it ... It also has longitude latitude data for mapping. It does not have a today only data set from what gathered. It has a data dictionary but its not really required. Maybe play with it a bit
 

dumbdick

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May 31, 2008
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From the npr article:



Doesn't really match up with what you're saying. They have sophisticated software and don't seem to use much, if any, of the criteria you mentioned to determine if an account is real or likely not. In addition, Twitter is clearly aware there is a problem because they've challenged over a million different accounts for potentially being bots tweeting misinformation about Covid-19.

I don't know. The part about examining the number of followers and activity to determine if an account is a bot sounds exactly like what I was describing:

Researchers say they examine a Twitter account's followers, frequency of tweeting and how often the user is mentioned on the platform in determining whether the tweeter is a bot account.

As for "sophisticated software", they're still limited to the data that Twitter makes available from their API, which doesn't give them a tonne to work with. They wouldn't have IPs or sign-up emails, for example.

If the accounts are posting 50 tweets in 10 seconds, or a tweet every 10 minutes for 30 consecutive hours, sure, those are likely bots and that info would be available to researchers. If it is showing up as multiple countries in a short period of time, I'd want to rule out human users using a VPN, or at least know that they tried somehow.

That said, I'm sure there are bots on there. I'm just skeptical of this research because they get to first define what a bot is from the limited data they have and then report on how many they found.

They probably threw together some heuristic way of defining a bot. Probably something like high percentage of total tweets were about covid, with a negative sentiment score, maybe some references to keywords or low variability between tweets, maybe some time pattern that they feel is suspicious, etc. They don't have training data of "real" bot behaviour, which somewhat rules out traditional machine learning methods.

"When we see a whole bunch of tweets at the same time or back to back, it's like they're timed," Carley said. "We also look for use of the same exact hashtag, or messaging that appears to be copied and pasted from one bot to the next."

Nothing here screams 100% for sure bot behaviour. Seems like the way some people behave on twitter, especially when they're dufuses with an axe to grind about something political.

Basically, I don't think the research rules out the possibility that covid drove a lot of angry people onto twitter that normally don't tweet a lot. And those accounts would look a lot like bots. No followers, not following anybody, echo chamber behaviour, no conversations or friends on there, just pissed off tweets in large volumes all about covid. They don't look like regular human twitter users because they're not regular human twitter users. They're there to influence others about covid, not because they like using twitter. As this dies down many of them will disappear again from the platform, making the accounts look even more suspicious.

I'm not saying this theory is correct, but it seems as plausible to me as half the tweets representing espionage via bot army run by malicious state actors.

Maybe I'm wrong and they've got more exacting methods. It's hard to say without reading their paper, which unfortunately doesn't seem to be published anywhere yet.
 

dumbdick

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May 31, 2008
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How do you feel about segmenting of when people go out?

Example: If your last name starts with A-C, aim to go shopping on Mon or Thurs on odd-numbered hours.

Even if it was all 100% voluntary, I think the prov would be smart to publish a recommended schedule for people who want to follow it.

Or go the tech route and publish a website that gives you exact recommended time blocks. Personalize who gets in the same time block. Dont put a 90 year old with a taxi driver. Dont have people from all over the city interacting together.

Basically, stick as many little firebreaks between networks of people as you can.
 

Laphroaig

Registered User
Aug 26, 2011
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The Town Fun Forgot
How do you feel about segmenting of when people go out?

Example: If your last name starts with A-C, aim to go shopping on Mon or Thurs on odd-numbered hours.

Even if it was all 100% voluntary, I think the prov would be smart to publish a recommended schedule for people who want to follow it.

Or go the tech route and publish a website that gives you exact recommended time blocks. Personalize who gets in the same time block. Dont put a 90 year old with a taxi driver. Dont have people from all over the city interacting together.

Basically, stick as many little firebreaks between networks of people as you can.
I don't have much faith in voluntary measures. I shopped during a period that was set aside for seniors and close to half the shoppers were clearly not supposed to be there. I'm also seeing a pathetically low percentage of people wearing masks while buying groceries.
 
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ReginKarlssonLehner

Let's Win It All
May 3, 2010
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I don't have much faith in voluntary measures. I shopped during a period that was set aside for seniors and close to half the shoppers clearly weren't seniors. I'm also seeing a pathetically low percentage of people wearing masks while buying groceries.

It's brutal. Like I said before, even security TSA members at the airports didnt have freakin masks.

Is it ego? I know maybe some don't have but like you said, pathetically low percentage.
 
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Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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province wide edicts are stupid

For someone that goes up to Northern Ontario to camp and fish .. I agree. The baby gets thrown out with the bath water there. No camping on crown land.
No camping in provincial parks. Now this has been a non operating park for years. Its not staffed. Its free to camp always. There are no reservations and no one to call if you felt strongly about making one. So can't camp there. We go every year and might see another boat on the water in a huge area, This is being equated to Silver Lake or Sharbot Lake or Sand banks .. car camping .. with the blanket province wide rules.
 

dumbdick

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May 31, 2008
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For someone that goes up to Northern Ontario to camp and fish .. I agree. The baby gets thrown out with the bath water there. No camping on crown land.
No camping in provincial parks. Now this has been a non operating park for years. Its not staffed. Its free to camp always. There are no reservations and no one to call if you felt strongly about making one. So can't camp there. We go every year and might see another boat on the water in a huge area, This is being equated to Silver Lake or Sharbot Lake or Sand banks .. car camping .. with the blanket province wide rules.
I've always wondered about those non-operating parks. How's it work with camping...just show up and hope a site is free, or are they all unlabeled?
 

Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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I've always wondered about those non-operating parks. How's it work with camping...just show up and hope a site is free, or are they all unlabeled?
I go to Little Abitibi provincial park or Little Abitibi Lake (crown land) .. Most of the camp sites are labelled. Depending on where (which park and how close to a city) you go ... it will either more or less busy. Little Ab gets some fishermen and some hunters in the fall.. but not many camping parties when I go (spring and fall)... do not know about mid summer. Most of those parks do have web sites that provide some info and there is usually info you can find in blogs online.
 
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dumbdick

Galactic Defender
May 31, 2008
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That would not have gone over well if Ford had different rules for the GTA than the rest of Ontario even if it had been the correct approach.

This thing is costing us a trillion dollars. f*** Toronto's sensibilities. f*** Ottawa's too, since we'd probably also be under more strict lockdowns than rural areas.
 

Masked

(Super/star)
Apr 16, 2017
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This thing is costing us a trillion dollars. f*** Toronto's sensibilities. f*** Ottawa's too, since we'd probably also be under more strict lockdowns than rural areas.

It's not just about sensibilities. It's about telling the GTA that they can't do things other parts of the province can, Torontonians getting upset about it and then disregarding the policies out of spite. Look at at how well they followed the rules in Bellwoods park.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
34,948
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It's not just about sensibilities. It's about telling the GTA that they can't do things other parts of the province can, Torontonians getting upset about it and then disregarding the policies out of spite. Look at at how well they followed the rules in Bellwoods park.

Exactly. Folks in the GTA see that a rural area is opening for business, and next thing you know ten thousand Torontoarians invade the place.

It sucks for places that have the virus under control....but it also helps keep them safe.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
54,094
31,296
Ugh...

Not going to sugar coat is, this crap pisses me off. Hopefully by shinning the light on the problem we'll invest whats needed to fix it, but the pessimist in me fears we'll see some finger pointing, pats on the back for bringing accountability to those deemed responsible without addressing the root of the problem, and then go back to the status quo and watch the cycle repeat.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-military-ltc-report-1.5585131
 
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Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
34,948
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Ugh...

Not going to sugar coat is, this crap pisses me off. Hopefully by shinning the light on the problem we'll invest whats needed to fix it, but the pessimist in me fears we'll see some finger pointing, pats on the back for bringing accountability to those deemed responsible without addressing the root of the problem, and then go back to the status quo and watch the cycle repeat.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-military-ltc-report-1.5585131

Yes, everyone will be outraged now, and then vote down the road for the politician who promises to lower taxes. Sorry folks, but we kinda need MONEY to pay for better staff, better healthcare, better infrastructure, better education....better everything in this province and country. And that means higher taxes, and better oversight in distributing said taxes.

No matter what anyone says, or how anyone feels....MONEY is the bottom line. You simply can't get around it.
 
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Sens of Anarchy

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