Value of: Everyone on the Islanders

[WarriorOfGandhi]

Sorokin with 25% retention to Colorado for a 1st, pretty much any prospect you want, Georgiev, and Girard

 

[iggy]

What would it take to get Brock Nelson in Toronto 50% retained? Obviously most of the value would have to come from picks/prospects but Liligren Robertson Kampf Jarnkrok are all available to make salaries work.

Lol you mean we get to choose between that crap for our 35 goal per year center AND we get to retain 50%? Make that deal Lou lol.

 

[miscs75]

Im objectively looking at the Isles as an orginization top to bottom.

From THIS westcoaster, your Pittsburgh without the cups.

A slew of 30+ players signed long term.

I see FOUR solid pieces in Barzal, Horvat, Dobson and Sorokin.

I see THREE solid prospects in Eiserman, Nelson and Odelius. I could be wrong on Odelius.

I see a team pandering to Matt Martins 1000 NHL game like he won them a cup and hes Pascal Dupuis or Max Talbot.

IMO you trade those 4 because thats the only way you change the identity and build a 50 man roster.

If ever there was a team that needed a Hagens, Misa, Frondell calibre young center its the Islanders imo.

As a Canuck fan im sad at the state of Islander prospect pool, and that says something.

Like I said before, trading those 4 to get garbage and magic beans in the form of 1st round picks ain’t it. Moving those 4 and getting 1sts with top prospects would be the only way it happens. By top prospects, I’m talking those ones teams don’t want to let go of, not overhyped because of who drafted them.
You’re trading all 4 away like you’re giving up 3rd liners and 2nd pairing blue liners with those offers you posted.

 

[miscs75]

Sorokin with 25% retention to Colorado for a 1st, pretty much any prospect you want, Georgiev, and Girard

Too many years to retain 25% and the Isles have 3 better options than the boldes. No interest in that package.

 

[SI90]

What would it take to get Brock Nelson in Toronto 50% retained? Obviously most of the value would have to come from picks/prospects but Liligren Robertson Kampf Jarnkrok are all available to make salaries work.

Is that really what Toronto needs? Yes he’d help but if they’re giving up assets I feel like defense and/or legit goalie is what they need.

 

[miscs75]

Is that really what Toronto needs? Yes he’d help but if they’re giving up assets I feel like defense and/or legit goalie is what they need.

They don’t have either to truly offer.

 

[Green]

Seems like most people are mentioning Brock Nelson. Perhaps the Isles start there, find a team he would accept a deal to and make the best futures trade they can.

The thing is once you trade Nelson it ensures the Islanders are a much worse team and have no chance of getting better anytime in the near future so given the age of the roster you have to go all in and trade everyone

Sorokin with 25% retention to Colorado for a 1st, pretty much any prospect you want, Georgiev, and Girard

Sold, unless there is a better offer

 

[Diablo2020]

Like I said before, trading those 4 to get garbage and magic beans in the form of 1st round picks ain’t it. Moving those 4 and getting 1sts with top prospects would be the only way it happens. By top prospects, I’m talking those ones teams don’t want to let go of, not overhyped because of who drafted them.
You’re trading all 4 away like you’re giving up 3rd liners and 2nd pairing blue liners with those offers you posted.

I completely understand. Never in 1,000,000 years would I have accepted Beauvillier, Raty and a 1st for Bowie Horvat on HFboards if it was proposed.

Then I found out we also ate %25 somehow.

But two years later I now see that magic beans and 1sts are what teams actually trade away for your heart and soul when your a middling franchise with descisions to make.

Two years later the Horvat trade tree is multiple pages and reallocated capspace long. Hronek, Kuzmenko, Debrusk all factor.

Sorokin with 25% retention to Colorado for a 1st, pretty much any prospect you want, Georgiev, and Girard

Not saying I was on value above, not saying this is either, but a great example of magic beans and close to what I believe it should be.

A bad tendy, two 1sts, and either u eat Ellis for 3 or you retain for 8 for a middling Girard.

(No one is retaining for 8!)

Lol you mean we get to choose between that crap for our 35 goal per year center AND we get to retain 50%? Make that deal Lou lol.

Islander fans shouldnt worry about the %50s or the crap that comes back. Its all about the "picks or prospects" in that example.

The crap coming back is because its OCT and half the league is over the cap.

Its the cost of doing business.

Hope its more Kuzmenko capdump than Ryan Ellis is all you can try for.

 

[Green]

Edit

 

[miscs75]

I completely understand. Never in 1,000,000 years would I have accepted Beauvillier, Raty and a 1st for Bowie Horvat on HFboards if it was proposed.

Then I found out we also ate %25 somehow.

But two years later I now see that magic beans and 1sts are what teams actually trade away for your heart and soul when your a middling franchise with descisions to make.

Two years later the Horvat trade tree is multiple pages and reallocated capspace long. Hronek, Kuzmenko, Debrusk all factor.



Not saying I was on value above, not saying this is either, but a great example of magic beans and close to what I believe it should be.

A bad tendy, two 1sts, and either u eat Ellis for 3 or you retain for 8 for a middling Girard.

(No one is retaining for 8!)



Islander fans shouldnt worry about the %50s or the crap that comes back. Its all about the "picks or prospects" in that example.

The crap coming back is because its OCT and half the league is over the cap.

Its the cost of doing business.

Hope its more Kuzmenko capdump than Ryan Ellis is all you can try for.

The issue I have is that if you compare the Isles to Vancouver it’s (in terms of roster importance):
Barzal = EP40
Dobson = Quinn
Sorokin = Demko
Nelson = JT Miller

So moving out Horvat at the time made sense to clear out a core piece that was most likely on the way out in free agency.
The pieces returned essentially what the Islanders got in Romanov (top pairing defenseman) and a decent prospect. The Islanders have the core pieces to contend but the complimentary ones need to be replaced. Ideally next season they should go in with something like this (pending both Nelson and Palmieri come back on team friendly deals and nothing else changes):

Duclair-Horvat-Barzal
????-Nelson-Palmieri
Tsyplakov-Pageau-Holmstrom
Cizikas-Maclean-Lee

Pelech-Pulock
Romanov-Dobson
?????-Mayfield

Sorokin
Varlamov

Moving out the 4 core pieces you listed puts a HUGE hole in that roster with no one even capable of filling top 6 minutes as a free agent this summer as a stop gap. It would be a massive blow to the organization with a huge year next season due to the ASG being hosted at UBS.

Removing those 4 and not signing Nelson or Palmieri makes the team look like this which is an absolute dumpster fire:

Duclair-Pageau-Lee
Duclair-Cizikas-Holmstrom
Tsyplakov- Maclean-????
????-????-???

Pelech-Pulock
Romanov-Mayfield
????-?????

Varlamov
Hogberg

 

[Diablo2020]

First off i appreciate a well thought out detailed rebuttle so I give you credit.

The issue I have is that if you compare the Isles to Vancouver it’s (in terms of roster importance):
Barzal = EP40
Dobson = Quinn
Sorokin = Demko
Nelson = JT Miller

So moving out Horvat at the time made sense to clear out a core piece that was most likely on the way out in free agency.

No it was literally about sending a message that the team was stale, needed new direction and leadership and wasnt going to accept whatever purgatory we were in.

We had capspace to keep our 28 yr old faceoff wiz goal scoring captain. We chose not to.

It took balls but like others above said thats almost whats needed on Long Island.

The pieces returned essentially what the Islanders got in Romanov (top pairing defenseman) and a decent prospect. The Islanders have the core pieces to contend but the complimentary ones need to be replaced.

Not that Frank Nazar was a home run miss but therein lies my problem with your arguments.

Calling Romanov a top pairing defenseman and thinking you have the core pieces to contend but just need some help around the edges is crazy to me, sorry.

I see 4 core pieces to a cup winners probably 11.

And yeah I see zero complimentary pieces that will be there longer than 2 yrs.

Ideally next season they should go in with something like this (pending both Nelson and Palmieri come back on team friendly deals and nothing else changes):

Duclair-Horvat-Barzal
????-Nelson-Palmieri
Tsyplakov-Pageau-Holmstrom
Cizikas-Maclean-Lee

Pelech-Pulock
Romanov-Dobson
?????-Mayfield

Sorokin
Varlamov

Dude theyre asking for Lou and Pattys heads already 8 games in and you think "just run it back" but add another Duclair on the 2nd line and a new Mike Rielly?

If its a Dougie Weight or Keith Tkachuk trade and sign im actually all for it but if they keep Nelson and Palmieri at 33 its huge Tanner Pearson 3yr and keeping Hamhuis through a deadline vibes sorry.

Moving out the 4 core pieces you listed puts a HUGE hole in that roster with no one even capable of filling top 6 minutes as a free agent this summer as a stop gap. It would be a massive blow to the organization with a huge year next season due to the ASG being hosted at UBS.

Yeah embrace the tank its for the best.

Matt Martin will get 45 games in no problem that way. Im thinking of him really.

And thats perfect then! Show off the sparkling facilities to the NHL stars you will be courting over the next decade with all the ammo you stockpiled by burning it down today.

Removing those 4 and not signing Nelson or Palmieri makes the team look like this which is an absolute dumpster fire:

Duclair-Pageau-Lee
Duclair-Cizikas-Holmstrom
Tsyplakov- Maclean-????
????-????-???

Pelech-Pulock
Romanov-Mayfield
????-?????

Varlamov
Hogberg

Im sorry it already just looks bad to me as an outsider. I believe Isles should just get ahead of it be first to market and ensure they get those 1sts for Pelech, Pulock, Palms, ect before those 30+ yr olds, some on their own crazy longterm contracts, become untradable for some reason (pulock could become krug tomorrow buddy)

Maybe I way undervalued Dobson. Maybe hes a 70 point not great defender who is gonna ask for 10m.

Maybe the equivilant of 4 firsts for Barzal wasnt enough quality as well. Maybe hes a career %42 faceoff guy who cant play C.

Id like to see the Isles put out that NYR type letter then turn the 4 core pieces into 8 along with drafting top 5 and somehow beat BUF, DET, OTT out of the rebuild in 2 years.

 

[icelander25]

Seems like most people are mentioning Brock Nelson. Perhaps the Isles start there, find a team he would accept a deal to and make the best futures trade they can.

Exactly. People need to chill with how tearing down works. Lou has literally NEVER sold as the Isles gm. Not once. He better this year but the only players I see being moved are Nelson and Palmieri (attractive trade pieces), Lee and Pageau (somewhat valuable depending on landing spot), or Varly (who’s a wildcard). Nobody else is being traded, at least mid season. The higher the pick the better, sure. But this is an actual retool, and not just a swap one player in for another type deal that we’ve been doing for the past few years. Now there can actually be some change, and for the better.