seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Seventieslord's Definitive Objective Comparison and Analysis of the careers of Joe Sakic and Steve Yzerman
Sakic vs. Yzerman is bound to be a popular debate in the upcoming years. I thought of a multitude of categories to compare Yzerman and Sakic in, and naturally some are more important than others, but I wanted to be as complete as possible. Where applicable, I have accounted for the unfair interference of the generational talents Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux. This did affect Yzerman's place in hockey's pecking order, but, make no mistake - it affected Sakic too.
Offense, Regular Season:
Goal-scoring: The only way to fairly judge a player's goal-scoring prowess across history, is to look at where he ranked in the league season to season. Generally I speak the language of top-10 finishes, but since I wanted to be complete, I have extended the study to include all finishes in the top-15. So, here are each players' top-15 finishes in goals:
Yzerman: 2, 2, 3, 6, 6, 6, 11.
Sakic: 2, 5, 6, 6, 10, 15.
I like to eliminate the identical finishes to break down who did better. So, remove a 2 and two 6's from each side and you're left with:
Yzerman: 2, 3, 6, 11.
Sakic: 5, 10, 15.
Safe to say that Yzerman has been a better goal-scorer over time.
If you remove Gretzky and Lemieux from the equation and pretend they never existed, here's where they would have placed:
Yzerman: 2, 2, 2, 5, 5, 6, 11.
Sakic: 2, 4, 6, 6, 10, 14.
Playmaking: Same thing. Top-15 finishes:
Yzerman: 3, 3, 7, 7, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15.
Sakic: 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 11, 12.
Eliminating equal finishes (3, 3, 11), we're left with:
Yzerman: 7, 7, 10, 13, 14, 15.
Sakic: 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12.
Sakic is definitely the superior playmaker.
For fun, let's eliminate the freaks of nature again.
Yzerman: 1, 1, 6, 6, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14.
Sakic: 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 10, 10, 10, 15.
Yzerman could have led the NHL in assists twice if Gretz and Mario ceased to exist. But even with that, Sakic has him beaten 6-2 in top-5's and 11-6 in top-10's.
Point production:
Yzerman: 3, 3, 4, 7, 7, 10, 13.
Sakic: 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 8, 10, 14.
Eliminating the identicals (3, 4, 10), we're left with:
Yzerman: 3, 7, 7, 13.
Sakic: 2, 2, 5, 5, 6, 6, 8, 14.
Easy edge to Sakic.
Eliminating Gretz and Lemieux:
Yzerman: 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 10, 11.
Sakic: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 5, 5, 8, 8, 12.
I haven't done the eliminations at this stage in goals and assists, but let's eliminate the identical 1, 2, 3, and 5.
Yzerman: 6, 10, 11.
Sakic: 4, 5, 5, 5, 8, 8, 12.
You could say Yzerman's 6, 10, 11 could cancel out Sakic's 8, 8, 12, basically meaning Sakic has done everything Yzerman has done, PLUS 4th, 5th, 5th, and 5th place points finishes, even after accounting for Gretzky and Lemieux.
*If you're really perceptive, you might have noticed Sakic was credited with a scoring title with Gretzky and Lemieux eliminated, though he never finished as runner-up to either of them. The reason is Mario Lemieux's 2000-01 comeback. Everyone knows that Mario propelled Jagr to first in the scoring race. Jagr was languishing in mediocrity before Mario came back, and it's widely accepted that Lemieux earned an assist on that Art Ross. No Lemieux = Art Ross for Sakic.
Longevity of regular season offense:
Simple calculation - number of seasons between each player's first and last top-10 finish in goals, assists and points, as well as top-5 finishes.
Yzerman: Top-10 in goals over a span of 6 seasons
Sakic: Top-10 in goals over a span of 14 seasons
Yzerman: Top-10 in assists over a span of 11 seasons
Sakic: Top-10 in assists over a span of 15 seasons
Yzerman: Top-10 in points over a span of 12 seasons
Sakic: Top-10 in points over a span of 17 seasons
Yzerman: Top-5 in goals over a span of 3 seasons
Sakic: Top-5 in goals over a span of 6 seasons
Yzerman: Top-5 in assists over a span of 9 seasons
Sakic: Top-5 in assists over a span of 10 seasons
Yzerman: Top-5 in points over a span of 5 seasons
Sakic: Top-5 in points over a span of 10 seasons
Sakic's span is greater than Yzerman's in all six comparisons.
Offense, Playoffs
There will be no elimination of Gretzky and Lemieux for two reasons: 1) their effect on these two players' playoff rankings are fairly minimal, and 2) You have to advance to place high in the playoff rankings, and Gretzky and Lemieux are no longer individuals once the playoffs begin - it's still up to their teams to advance far enough for them to make the leaderboard.
Goal-scoring:
As usual, top-15 finishes:
Yzerman: 4, 8, 12, 12, 12.
Sakic: 1, 1, 2, 8, 10, 10, 12.
For lack of a better term, Sakic PWNS yzerman in this category. After eliminating 4, 8, and 12 from each side, we're left with:
Yzerman: 12, 12.
Sakic: 1, 1, 2, 10, 10.
Sakic is a FAR more accomplished playoff goal-scorer, completely turning the tables on the regular season gap, and then some.
Playmaking:
Yzerman: 1, 2, 7, 8, 15.
Sakic: 1, 2, 3, 4, 8.
Again, another clear victory for Sakic, because as you can see, after eliminating 1, 2, and 8:
Yzerman: 7, 15.
Sakic: 3, 4.
Point Production:
Yzerman: 1, 2, 6, 12, 12, 13.
Sakic: 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 14.
Another clear victory for Sakic. After eliminating 1 and 2:
Yzerman: 6, 12, 12, 13.
Sakic: 1, 3, 4, 14.
Leading team in playoff goals or points:
You can't advance every single season. To be as fair as possible, I counted the number of times each player led (or tied for the lead) in playoff goals or points on their team.
Yzerman led his team in playoff goals 7 times, and points 9 times.
Sakic led his team in playoff goals 7 times, and points 8 times.
In other words, Yzerman did it one more time, but his total is inflated by two seasons (1984 and 1985) in which he led the Wings in both goals and points in 3 and 4-game preliminary round losses. Given that, I'm calling this even.
Conclusion: Sakic's playoff offense has beaten that of Yzerman at every turn.
Career Per-Game Averages, Regular Season and Playoffs:
Normally I don't bother with stuff like this, but these two players are similar in style and played careers that overlapped by 17 seasons.
Regular season GPG, APG, PPG:
Yzerman: .46 .70 1.16
Sakic: .45 .74 1.19
Sakic has Yzerman beaten in points and assists, and is right with him in goals. However, there is more to it than that. The years in which their careers did not overlap show an even greater difference. Yzerman played 5 seasons in the wide-open 1980's before Sakic arrived. NHL goal scoring was at 3.79 GPG during these 5 years. In the three seasons (including this year) that Sakic has played in an Yzerman-less NHL, goal scoring has been at 2.79 GPG. Sakic is clearly at a disadvantage because of eras, but still comes out on top.
Playoff GPG, APG, PPG:
Yzerman: .36 .58 .94
Sakic: .49 .60 1.09
Sakic has Yzerman beaten in all three categories in the playoffs. This is an extremely decisive edge too, when you consider that Sakic played his first playoff game in 1993 when the wide-open era was coming to an end. By this time Yzerman had played in 50 playoff games, scoring 55 points from 1984-1992. He scored 130 in his final 146 playoff games (0.89), while Sakic scored 178 in 162 games during that same time (1.10).
Easy edge to Sakic, before you consider disrepancies due to era.
Clutch play:
For obvious reasons, only individual playoff achievements should count here. For simplicity, all I can really do is look at GWG and OTG.
- Yzerman has 12 career playoff GWG in 196 GP. (.06/GP)
- Sakic has 19 career playoff GWG in 172 GP. (.11/GP)
In other words, Sakic has been nearly twice as likely to score the game winner in his playoff games. Sakic is 4th all-time in playoff GWG.
- Yzerman has 1 career playoff OT goal.
- Sakic has 8 career playoff OT goals, which is two more than anyone else has in NHL history.
Easy edge to Sakic.
Clean Play:
Both these guys play a clean, hard game. The fewer penalties you take, the more often you can be on the ice helping your team and the less often your team has to kill a penalty.
Yzerman: .61 PIM/GP.
Sakic: .45 PIM/GP.
That works out to 50 and 37 PIM per 82 games. It's not a huge difference, but this means that in an average season, Detroit had to kill 6-7 more Yzerman penalties than Quebec/Colorado had to to for Sakic.
Edge to Sakic, though I admit it is small.
Durability:
I calculated durability in three ways: Percentage of games missed, percentage of games missed in 12 prime years, and percentage of playoff games missed.
% of games missed in career:
Yzerman: 13.8%
Sakic: 10.8%
% of games missed in 12 prime years (age 21 through 32)
Yzerman: 6%
Sakic: 9%
% of playoff games missed in career:
Yzerman: 13.7% (31 games)
Sakic 1.7% (3 games)
Sakic takes two of three categories, including the most important one.
Awards:
Looking simply at who won what and who didn't, is too simplistic. Since we have access to all old voting records for awards, we can take a look at how these guys did over the years. I'll go over the three awards most pertinent to these two players: The Hart Trophy as league MVP, The Selke Trophy as the top defensive forward, and the postseason All-Star Team position at Centre.
Both players have a well-deserved Conn Smythe Trophy as playoff MVP, and a Lester Pearson award as the players' MVP. They all cancel eachother out. Since voting records are not available for these awards, we will never know who was a runner-up or finalist for these awards and how many times. So the discussion about these awards ends here.
Hart:
Here are each players' Hart Trophy voting record:
Yzerman: 3, 4, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 13.
Sakic: 1, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8, 14, 14, 15.
Quite close. Sakic is the only one to have won the award. Eliminating identical finishes 7, 7, 7, 8, you're left with:
Yzerman: 3, 4, 8, 13.
Sakic: 1, 7, 14, 14, 15.
Amazingly close. But Yzerman's prime was blocked by the primes of the freaks. Eliminate Gretzky and Lemieux and you've got:
Yzerman: 1, 2, 5, 6, 6, 7, 8, 13.
Sakic: 1, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 13, 14, 15.
Eliminate identical finishes 1, 6, 6, 7, 8, 13, and you're left with:
Yzerman: 2, 5.
Sakic: 7, 14, 15.
Two high finishes versus three moderate finishes. A very tight race, to be sure. I'd give a slight edge to Yzerman, though.
Selke:
Yzerman: 1, 3, 4, 5, 9, 11.
Sakic: 2, 9, 10, 13, 15, 15.
I'm not going to eliminate identicals here becauase then we'd be just eliminating a 9. Both guys have six top-15 finishes, but Yzerman has five top-10s to Sakic's three, and four top-5's to Sakic's 1. Plus he won the Selke and Sakic didn't. Definite edge in Selke voting goes to Yzerman.
All-Star team: A 1 or a 2 means he was actually voted to the 1st or 2nd all-star team, a 3-10 means he earned votes but was not top-2.
Yzerman: 1, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 6, 10.
Sakic: 1, 1, 1, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 7.
Eliminate the 1, 3, 3, 4, 4, and 6, and you're left with:
Yzerman: 5, 6, 10.
Sakic: 1, 1, 4, 4, 7.
Looks to be an easy edge for Yzerman. Two more top-15s, Three more top-10s, and three more top-5s, plus three berths on the first team. But, remember there were healthy freaks back then and we must consider that. Eliminating The Great one and Le Magnifique:
Yzerman: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9.
Sakic: 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 6.
After eliminating identicals again, (1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6), we have:
Yzerman: 2, 9.
Sakic: 1, 3, 4, 4.
Sakic has a clear edge on Yzerman in All-Star team voting even after completely eliminating the Gretzky/Lemieux effect.
Team Success:
We can't hold them entirely responsible for their team's failures or completely anoint them their team's sole reason for victory. But, it's clear that these two greats had a lot to do with their teams' successes over the years. Early in their careers, they were not the captain of their team and I think it's only fair that we limit this to seasons after they became captains. A captain should be able to provide the leadership to prevent them from losing a series they should win, and of course getting them through a series that they had no business winning would be nice too. A "better" team is one that had 10+ points more than Sakic/Yzerman's team, a "worse" team is one that had 10+ points less. All other teams are "even" teams.
Yzerman's playoff series W/L record
vs. Better Teams: 1-3 (.250)
vs. Even Teams: 6-3 (.667)
vs. Worse Teams: 18-9 (.667) - Failures in 89, 94, 95, 96, 00, 01, 03, 04, 06.
Total: 26-15 (.634)
Sakic's playoff series W/L record
vs. Better Teams: 3-3 (.500)
vs. Even Teams: 7-4 (.636)
vs. Worse Teams: 9-4 (.692) - Failures in 95, 97, 98, 03.
Total: 19-11 (.633)
Very, very similar. What I see a difference in, is that Sakic has been able to lift his team to victory three times over teams Colorado shouldn't have beaten, while Yzerman could only do this once. Yzerman's wings also choked against an inferior team 9 times while Sakic's Nords/Avs choked just 4 times.
Head To Head:
What about head to head matchups between these players? Detroit and Colorado met five times in the playoffs - 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002. Colorado won 3 of these 5 matchups, and 17 of the 30 games. In addition, Detroit's regular season point differential versus Colorado in these five seasons was +27, -13, -8, +12, and +17, for an average of +8. Detroit was favoured to win more often, but won less often. For winning more often when being expected to win less often, Sakic gets the edge.
Cups/Finals appearances:
Let's not forget two other simple things, though - Yzerman has been to the finals two more times than Sakic, and won the cup one more time than Sakic.
Playing on Poor Teams:
Both players played on good teams for the majority of their careers. However, for short portions of ther careers, mostly at the beginning, Sakic and Yzerman had the misfortune of playing on some bad squads. Each played four seasons where their team had 70 points or less. For Sakic, it was his first four seasons. For Yzerman, it was his first three seasons and 1990. Sakic's Nordiques' point totals were 61, 31, 46, and 52. Yzerman's wings had 69, 66, 40, and 70.
During these periods of futility, both players were their team's main bright spot. Who shone more while languishing on a bad team?
Yzerman:
1984: Did not place top-15 in anything.
1985: 13th in assists.
1986: Did not place top-15 in anything. (was injured for 29 games but his per-game averages wouldn't have put him near the leaderboard either way)
1990: 2nd in goals, 10th in assists, 3rd in points.
Sakic:
1989: Did not place top-15 in anything.
1990: 12th in assists, 10th in points.
1991: 6th in goals, 11th in assists, 6th in points.
1992: 9th in assists, 14th in points despite missing 11 games.
Conclusion: Sakic had 7 top-15 finishes in the three categories during his team's four worst years. Yzerman had 4. Sakic's Nordiques averaged 49 points in these seasons - Yzerman's wings averaged 61. Sakic clearly did better while on worse teams.
International Play:
Don't forget international play. Half the games are elimination games, and every player on the ice is highly skilled. Let's look at their individual and team successes.
Non-Best on Best:
Individual:
Yzerman: 44 Pts in 35 games in 4 tournaments. Top Forward and 1st All-Star Team of 1990 World Championships.
Sakic: 22 Pts in 25 games in 3 tournaments. No individual accolades.
Team:
Yzerman: WJC Bronze (1983), World Championship Bronze, Bronze, Gold (1985, 1989, 1990)
Sakic: World Championship Bronze, Gold (1991, 1994)
Best-On-Best:
Individual:
Yzerman: 11 Pts in 22 games in 4 tournaments. No individual accolades.
Sakic: 23 points in 30 games in 5 tournaments. Top forward and 1st All-Star Team of 2002 Olympics.
Team:
Yzerman: 1997 World Cup Silver, 2002 Olympic Gold.
Sakic: 1997 World Cup Silver, 2002 Olympic Gold, 2004 World Cup Gold.
Summary: Yzerman appears better in the small tournaments - He played in one more tournament, had more games, more points, more points per game, an individual accolade, and four medals to Sakic's two. Sakic, likewise, has the edge in best-on-best games. More tournaments, more games, more points, more points per game, was the Olympic MVP, and has one more team title than Yzerman. Given that the best-on-best tournaments are, oh, I'd say, about 10 times as important as the other tournaments, I have to give Sakic the edge here.
Intangibles:
Basically, don't give me this nonsense. Intangibles aren't nonsense; they're real. But show me a quote about Joe Sakic's intestinal fortitude, winning attitude, desire, heart, will to win, team-first philosophy, and I can find a quote about Yzerman that says the same thing. Like the Smythe and Pearson, they cancel eachother out. Trying to claim one is better than the other in this area is about as effective as peeing up a rope.
Summary:
Regular season Goal-scoring: Advantage: Yzerman.
Regular season Playmaking: Advantage: Sakic.
Regular season Point Production: Advantage: Sakic.
Longevity of regular season offense: Advantage: Sakic.
Playoff goal-scoring: Advantage: Sakic.
Playoff playmaking: Advantage: Sakic.
Playoff point production: Advantage: Sakic.
Leading team in playoff goals/points: Even.
Career regular season per-game averages: Advantage: Sakic.
Career playoff per-game averages: Advantage: Sakic.
Clutch play: Advantage: Sakic.
Clean Play: Advantage: Sakic.
Durability: Advantage: Sakic.
Hart Record: Advantage: Yzerman.
Selke Record: Advantage: Yzerman.
All-Star Team Record: Advantage: Sakic.
Total Playoff series W/L record: Even.
Pulling off playoff upsets: Advantage: Sakic.
Not being upset by inferior teams: Advantage: Sakic
Head to head matchups: Advantage: Sakic
Cups and Finals appearances: Advantage: Yzerman
International Play: Advantage: Sakic.
Intangibles: Even.
Sakic's decisive wins:
Clutch play
Regular season point production
Regular season playmaking
Longevity of regular season offense
Playoff goal-scoring
Playoff playmaking
Playoff point production
Career playoff per-game averages
All-Star Team Record
Head to head matchups
Playing on poor teams
Sakic's narrow wins:
Clean Play
Durability
International Play
Career regular season per-game averages
Pulling off playoff upsets
Not being upset by inferior teams
Draws:
Leading team in playoff goals/points
Intangibles
Total Playoff series W/L record
Yzerman's narrow wins:
Regular season Goal-scoring
Hart Record
Cups and finals appearances
Yzerman's decisive win:
Selke record
Conclusion:
Joe Sakic has had a career that is slightly yet decidedly and clearly better than that of Steve Yzerman. He scored wins in 17 of the 24 categories analyzed (11 decisively), while Yzerman won four categories, one decisively. Three categories were declared draws. keep in mind that some categories are much more important than others; however, Sakic wins most of the most important ones.
Sakic vs. Yzerman is bound to be a popular debate in the upcoming years. I thought of a multitude of categories to compare Yzerman and Sakic in, and naturally some are more important than others, but I wanted to be as complete as possible. Where applicable, I have accounted for the unfair interference of the generational talents Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux. This did affect Yzerman's place in hockey's pecking order, but, make no mistake - it affected Sakic too.
Offense, Regular Season:
Goal-scoring: The only way to fairly judge a player's goal-scoring prowess across history, is to look at where he ranked in the league season to season. Generally I speak the language of top-10 finishes, but since I wanted to be complete, I have extended the study to include all finishes in the top-15. So, here are each players' top-15 finishes in goals:
Yzerman: 2, 2, 3, 6, 6, 6, 11.
Sakic: 2, 5, 6, 6, 10, 15.
I like to eliminate the identical finishes to break down who did better. So, remove a 2 and two 6's from each side and you're left with:
Yzerman: 2, 3, 6, 11.
Sakic: 5, 10, 15.
Safe to say that Yzerman has been a better goal-scorer over time.
If you remove Gretzky and Lemieux from the equation and pretend they never existed, here's where they would have placed:
Yzerman: 2, 2, 2, 5, 5, 6, 11.
Sakic: 2, 4, 6, 6, 10, 14.
Playmaking: Same thing. Top-15 finishes:
Yzerman: 3, 3, 7, 7, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15.
Sakic: 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 11, 12.
Eliminating equal finishes (3, 3, 11), we're left with:
Yzerman: 7, 7, 10, 13, 14, 15.
Sakic: 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12.
Sakic is definitely the superior playmaker.
For fun, let's eliminate the freaks of nature again.
Yzerman: 1, 1, 6, 6, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14.
Sakic: 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 10, 10, 10, 15.
Yzerman could have led the NHL in assists twice if Gretz and Mario ceased to exist. But even with that, Sakic has him beaten 6-2 in top-5's and 11-6 in top-10's.
Point production:
Yzerman: 3, 3, 4, 7, 7, 10, 13.
Sakic: 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 8, 10, 14.
Eliminating the identicals (3, 4, 10), we're left with:
Yzerman: 3, 7, 7, 13.
Sakic: 2, 2, 5, 5, 6, 6, 8, 14.
Easy edge to Sakic.
Eliminating Gretz and Lemieux:
Yzerman: 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 10, 11.
Sakic: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 5, 5, 8, 8, 12.
I haven't done the eliminations at this stage in goals and assists, but let's eliminate the identical 1, 2, 3, and 5.
Yzerman: 6, 10, 11.
Sakic: 4, 5, 5, 5, 8, 8, 12.
You could say Yzerman's 6, 10, 11 could cancel out Sakic's 8, 8, 12, basically meaning Sakic has done everything Yzerman has done, PLUS 4th, 5th, 5th, and 5th place points finishes, even after accounting for Gretzky and Lemieux.
*If you're really perceptive, you might have noticed Sakic was credited with a scoring title with Gretzky and Lemieux eliminated, though he never finished as runner-up to either of them. The reason is Mario Lemieux's 2000-01 comeback. Everyone knows that Mario propelled Jagr to first in the scoring race. Jagr was languishing in mediocrity before Mario came back, and it's widely accepted that Lemieux earned an assist on that Art Ross. No Lemieux = Art Ross for Sakic.
Longevity of regular season offense:
Simple calculation - number of seasons between each player's first and last top-10 finish in goals, assists and points, as well as top-5 finishes.
Yzerman: Top-10 in goals over a span of 6 seasons
Sakic: Top-10 in goals over a span of 14 seasons
Yzerman: Top-10 in assists over a span of 11 seasons
Sakic: Top-10 in assists over a span of 15 seasons
Yzerman: Top-10 in points over a span of 12 seasons
Sakic: Top-10 in points over a span of 17 seasons
Yzerman: Top-5 in goals over a span of 3 seasons
Sakic: Top-5 in goals over a span of 6 seasons
Yzerman: Top-5 in assists over a span of 9 seasons
Sakic: Top-5 in assists over a span of 10 seasons
Yzerman: Top-5 in points over a span of 5 seasons
Sakic: Top-5 in points over a span of 10 seasons
Sakic's span is greater than Yzerman's in all six comparisons.
Offense, Playoffs
There will be no elimination of Gretzky and Lemieux for two reasons: 1) their effect on these two players' playoff rankings are fairly minimal, and 2) You have to advance to place high in the playoff rankings, and Gretzky and Lemieux are no longer individuals once the playoffs begin - it's still up to their teams to advance far enough for them to make the leaderboard.
Goal-scoring:
As usual, top-15 finishes:
Yzerman: 4, 8, 12, 12, 12.
Sakic: 1, 1, 2, 8, 10, 10, 12.
For lack of a better term, Sakic PWNS yzerman in this category. After eliminating 4, 8, and 12 from each side, we're left with:
Yzerman: 12, 12.
Sakic: 1, 1, 2, 10, 10.
Sakic is a FAR more accomplished playoff goal-scorer, completely turning the tables on the regular season gap, and then some.
Playmaking:
Yzerman: 1, 2, 7, 8, 15.
Sakic: 1, 2, 3, 4, 8.
Again, another clear victory for Sakic, because as you can see, after eliminating 1, 2, and 8:
Yzerman: 7, 15.
Sakic: 3, 4.
Point Production:
Yzerman: 1, 2, 6, 12, 12, 13.
Sakic: 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 14.
Another clear victory for Sakic. After eliminating 1 and 2:
Yzerman: 6, 12, 12, 13.
Sakic: 1, 3, 4, 14.
Leading team in playoff goals or points:
You can't advance every single season. To be as fair as possible, I counted the number of times each player led (or tied for the lead) in playoff goals or points on their team.
Yzerman led his team in playoff goals 7 times, and points 9 times.
Sakic led his team in playoff goals 7 times, and points 8 times.
In other words, Yzerman did it one more time, but his total is inflated by two seasons (1984 and 1985) in which he led the Wings in both goals and points in 3 and 4-game preliminary round losses. Given that, I'm calling this even.
Conclusion: Sakic's playoff offense has beaten that of Yzerman at every turn.
Career Per-Game Averages, Regular Season and Playoffs:
Normally I don't bother with stuff like this, but these two players are similar in style and played careers that overlapped by 17 seasons.
Regular season GPG, APG, PPG:
Yzerman: .46 .70 1.16
Sakic: .45 .74 1.19
Sakic has Yzerman beaten in points and assists, and is right with him in goals. However, there is more to it than that. The years in which their careers did not overlap show an even greater difference. Yzerman played 5 seasons in the wide-open 1980's before Sakic arrived. NHL goal scoring was at 3.79 GPG during these 5 years. In the three seasons (including this year) that Sakic has played in an Yzerman-less NHL, goal scoring has been at 2.79 GPG. Sakic is clearly at a disadvantage because of eras, but still comes out on top.
Playoff GPG, APG, PPG:
Yzerman: .36 .58 .94
Sakic: .49 .60 1.09
Sakic has Yzerman beaten in all three categories in the playoffs. This is an extremely decisive edge too, when you consider that Sakic played his first playoff game in 1993 when the wide-open era was coming to an end. By this time Yzerman had played in 50 playoff games, scoring 55 points from 1984-1992. He scored 130 in his final 146 playoff games (0.89), while Sakic scored 178 in 162 games during that same time (1.10).
Easy edge to Sakic, before you consider disrepancies due to era.
Clutch play:
For obvious reasons, only individual playoff achievements should count here. For simplicity, all I can really do is look at GWG and OTG.
- Yzerman has 12 career playoff GWG in 196 GP. (.06/GP)
- Sakic has 19 career playoff GWG in 172 GP. (.11/GP)
In other words, Sakic has been nearly twice as likely to score the game winner in his playoff games. Sakic is 4th all-time in playoff GWG.
- Yzerman has 1 career playoff OT goal.
- Sakic has 8 career playoff OT goals, which is two more than anyone else has in NHL history.
Easy edge to Sakic.
Clean Play:
Both these guys play a clean, hard game. The fewer penalties you take, the more often you can be on the ice helping your team and the less often your team has to kill a penalty.
Yzerman: .61 PIM/GP.
Sakic: .45 PIM/GP.
That works out to 50 and 37 PIM per 82 games. It's not a huge difference, but this means that in an average season, Detroit had to kill 6-7 more Yzerman penalties than Quebec/Colorado had to to for Sakic.
Edge to Sakic, though I admit it is small.
Durability:
I calculated durability in three ways: Percentage of games missed, percentage of games missed in 12 prime years, and percentage of playoff games missed.
% of games missed in career:
Yzerman: 13.8%
Sakic: 10.8%
% of games missed in 12 prime years (age 21 through 32)
Yzerman: 6%
Sakic: 9%
% of playoff games missed in career:
Yzerman: 13.7% (31 games)
Sakic 1.7% (3 games)
Sakic takes two of three categories, including the most important one.
Awards:
Looking simply at who won what and who didn't, is too simplistic. Since we have access to all old voting records for awards, we can take a look at how these guys did over the years. I'll go over the three awards most pertinent to these two players: The Hart Trophy as league MVP, The Selke Trophy as the top defensive forward, and the postseason All-Star Team position at Centre.
Both players have a well-deserved Conn Smythe Trophy as playoff MVP, and a Lester Pearson award as the players' MVP. They all cancel eachother out. Since voting records are not available for these awards, we will never know who was a runner-up or finalist for these awards and how many times. So the discussion about these awards ends here.
Hart:
Here are each players' Hart Trophy voting record:
Yzerman: 3, 4, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 13.
Sakic: 1, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8, 14, 14, 15.
Quite close. Sakic is the only one to have won the award. Eliminating identical finishes 7, 7, 7, 8, you're left with:
Yzerman: 3, 4, 8, 13.
Sakic: 1, 7, 14, 14, 15.
Amazingly close. But Yzerman's prime was blocked by the primes of the freaks. Eliminate Gretzky and Lemieux and you've got:
Yzerman: 1, 2, 5, 6, 6, 7, 8, 13.
Sakic: 1, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 13, 14, 15.
Eliminate identical finishes 1, 6, 6, 7, 8, 13, and you're left with:
Yzerman: 2, 5.
Sakic: 7, 14, 15.
Two high finishes versus three moderate finishes. A very tight race, to be sure. I'd give a slight edge to Yzerman, though.
Selke:
Yzerman: 1, 3, 4, 5, 9, 11.
Sakic: 2, 9, 10, 13, 15, 15.
I'm not going to eliminate identicals here becauase then we'd be just eliminating a 9. Both guys have six top-15 finishes, but Yzerman has five top-10s to Sakic's three, and four top-5's to Sakic's 1. Plus he won the Selke and Sakic didn't. Definite edge in Selke voting goes to Yzerman.
All-Star team: A 1 or a 2 means he was actually voted to the 1st or 2nd all-star team, a 3-10 means he earned votes but was not top-2.
Yzerman: 1, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 6, 10.
Sakic: 1, 1, 1, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 7.
Eliminate the 1, 3, 3, 4, 4, and 6, and you're left with:
Yzerman: 5, 6, 10.
Sakic: 1, 1, 4, 4, 7.
Looks to be an easy edge for Yzerman. Two more top-15s, Three more top-10s, and three more top-5s, plus three berths on the first team. But, remember there were healthy freaks back then and we must consider that. Eliminating The Great one and Le Magnifique:
Yzerman: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9.
Sakic: 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 6.
After eliminating identicals again, (1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6), we have:
Yzerman: 2, 9.
Sakic: 1, 3, 4, 4.
Sakic has a clear edge on Yzerman in All-Star team voting even after completely eliminating the Gretzky/Lemieux effect.
Team Success:
We can't hold them entirely responsible for their team's failures or completely anoint them their team's sole reason for victory. But, it's clear that these two greats had a lot to do with their teams' successes over the years. Early in their careers, they were not the captain of their team and I think it's only fair that we limit this to seasons after they became captains. A captain should be able to provide the leadership to prevent them from losing a series they should win, and of course getting them through a series that they had no business winning would be nice too. A "better" team is one that had 10+ points more than Sakic/Yzerman's team, a "worse" team is one that had 10+ points less. All other teams are "even" teams.
Yzerman's playoff series W/L record
vs. Better Teams: 1-3 (.250)
vs. Even Teams: 6-3 (.667)
vs. Worse Teams: 18-9 (.667) - Failures in 89, 94, 95, 96, 00, 01, 03, 04, 06.
Total: 26-15 (.634)
Sakic's playoff series W/L record
vs. Better Teams: 3-3 (.500)
vs. Even Teams: 7-4 (.636)
vs. Worse Teams: 9-4 (.692) - Failures in 95, 97, 98, 03.
Total: 19-11 (.633)
Very, very similar. What I see a difference in, is that Sakic has been able to lift his team to victory three times over teams Colorado shouldn't have beaten, while Yzerman could only do this once. Yzerman's wings also choked against an inferior team 9 times while Sakic's Nords/Avs choked just 4 times.
Head To Head:
What about head to head matchups between these players? Detroit and Colorado met five times in the playoffs - 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002. Colorado won 3 of these 5 matchups, and 17 of the 30 games. In addition, Detroit's regular season point differential versus Colorado in these five seasons was +27, -13, -8, +12, and +17, for an average of +8. Detroit was favoured to win more often, but won less often. For winning more often when being expected to win less often, Sakic gets the edge.
Cups/Finals appearances:
Let's not forget two other simple things, though - Yzerman has been to the finals two more times than Sakic, and won the cup one more time than Sakic.
Playing on Poor Teams:
Both players played on good teams for the majority of their careers. However, for short portions of ther careers, mostly at the beginning, Sakic and Yzerman had the misfortune of playing on some bad squads. Each played four seasons where their team had 70 points or less. For Sakic, it was his first four seasons. For Yzerman, it was his first three seasons and 1990. Sakic's Nordiques' point totals were 61, 31, 46, and 52. Yzerman's wings had 69, 66, 40, and 70.
During these periods of futility, both players were their team's main bright spot. Who shone more while languishing on a bad team?
Yzerman:
1984: Did not place top-15 in anything.
1985: 13th in assists.
1986: Did not place top-15 in anything. (was injured for 29 games but his per-game averages wouldn't have put him near the leaderboard either way)
1990: 2nd in goals, 10th in assists, 3rd in points.
Sakic:
1989: Did not place top-15 in anything.
1990: 12th in assists, 10th in points.
1991: 6th in goals, 11th in assists, 6th in points.
1992: 9th in assists, 14th in points despite missing 11 games.
Conclusion: Sakic had 7 top-15 finishes in the three categories during his team's four worst years. Yzerman had 4. Sakic's Nordiques averaged 49 points in these seasons - Yzerman's wings averaged 61. Sakic clearly did better while on worse teams.
International Play:
Don't forget international play. Half the games are elimination games, and every player on the ice is highly skilled. Let's look at their individual and team successes.
Non-Best on Best:
Individual:
Yzerman: 44 Pts in 35 games in 4 tournaments. Top Forward and 1st All-Star Team of 1990 World Championships.
Sakic: 22 Pts in 25 games in 3 tournaments. No individual accolades.
Team:
Yzerman: WJC Bronze (1983), World Championship Bronze, Bronze, Gold (1985, 1989, 1990)
Sakic: World Championship Bronze, Gold (1991, 1994)
Best-On-Best:
Individual:
Yzerman: 11 Pts in 22 games in 4 tournaments. No individual accolades.
Sakic: 23 points in 30 games in 5 tournaments. Top forward and 1st All-Star Team of 2002 Olympics.
Team:
Yzerman: 1997 World Cup Silver, 2002 Olympic Gold.
Sakic: 1997 World Cup Silver, 2002 Olympic Gold, 2004 World Cup Gold.
Summary: Yzerman appears better in the small tournaments - He played in one more tournament, had more games, more points, more points per game, an individual accolade, and four medals to Sakic's two. Sakic, likewise, has the edge in best-on-best games. More tournaments, more games, more points, more points per game, was the Olympic MVP, and has one more team title than Yzerman. Given that the best-on-best tournaments are, oh, I'd say, about 10 times as important as the other tournaments, I have to give Sakic the edge here.
Intangibles:
Basically, don't give me this nonsense. Intangibles aren't nonsense; they're real. But show me a quote about Joe Sakic's intestinal fortitude, winning attitude, desire, heart, will to win, team-first philosophy, and I can find a quote about Yzerman that says the same thing. Like the Smythe and Pearson, they cancel eachother out. Trying to claim one is better than the other in this area is about as effective as peeing up a rope.
Summary:
Regular season Goal-scoring: Advantage: Yzerman.
Regular season Playmaking: Advantage: Sakic.
Regular season Point Production: Advantage: Sakic.
Longevity of regular season offense: Advantage: Sakic.
Playoff goal-scoring: Advantage: Sakic.
Playoff playmaking: Advantage: Sakic.
Playoff point production: Advantage: Sakic.
Leading team in playoff goals/points: Even.
Career regular season per-game averages: Advantage: Sakic.
Career playoff per-game averages: Advantage: Sakic.
Clutch play: Advantage: Sakic.
Clean Play: Advantage: Sakic.
Durability: Advantage: Sakic.
Hart Record: Advantage: Yzerman.
Selke Record: Advantage: Yzerman.
All-Star Team Record: Advantage: Sakic.
Total Playoff series W/L record: Even.
Pulling off playoff upsets: Advantage: Sakic.
Not being upset by inferior teams: Advantage: Sakic
Head to head matchups: Advantage: Sakic
Cups and Finals appearances: Advantage: Yzerman
International Play: Advantage: Sakic.
Intangibles: Even.
Sakic's decisive wins:
Clutch play
Regular season point production
Regular season playmaking
Longevity of regular season offense
Playoff goal-scoring
Playoff playmaking
Playoff point production
Career playoff per-game averages
All-Star Team Record
Head to head matchups
Playing on poor teams
Sakic's narrow wins:
Clean Play
Durability
International Play
Career regular season per-game averages
Pulling off playoff upsets
Not being upset by inferior teams
Draws:
Leading team in playoff goals/points
Intangibles
Total Playoff series W/L record
Yzerman's narrow wins:
Regular season Goal-scoring
Hart Record
Cups and finals appearances
Yzerman's decisive win:
Selke record
Conclusion:
Joe Sakic has had a career that is slightly yet decidedly and clearly better than that of Steve Yzerman. He scored wins in 17 of the 24 categories analyzed (11 decisively), while Yzerman won four categories, one decisively. Three categories were declared draws. keep in mind that some categories are much more important than others; however, Sakic wins most of the most important ones.