Even-strength VsX

[Hockey Outsider]

As requested for the ATD, here's even-strength VsX. I'm posting this here (rather than the ATD forum) as I'm sure there are undrafteds included here.

Disclaimers:

• All the ES numbers were taken from Overpass's spreadsheet, and the yearly benchmarks were taken from Sprague Cleghorn's post. I haven't attempted to confirm/verify any of their information.
• The data only goes back to 1960.
• Each year is normalized to 70.

Results - top 300 ES VsX (1960-2017) - best seven years

1	GRETZKY, WAYNE	111
2	JAGR, JAROMIR	81
3	ESPOSITO, PHIL	75
4	LEMIEUX, MARIO	74
5	HULL, BOBBY	74
6	LAFLEUR, GUY	72
7	MIKITA, STAN	71
8	CROSBY, SIDNEY	70
9	YZERMAN, STEVE	68
10	THORNTON, JOE	68
11	BOSSY, MIKE	67
12	OVECHKIN, ALEX	67
13	SAKIC, JOE	66
14	DIONNE, MARCEL	66
15	KURRI, JARI	66
16	ULLMAN, NORM	66
17	RICHARD, HENRI	65
18	LINDROS, ERIC	65
19	RATELLE, JEAN	65
20	IGINLA, JAROME	65
21	ST. LOUIS, MARTIN	64
22	HOWE, GORDIE	64
23	KANE, PATRICK	64
24	ORR, BOBBY	64
25	TROTTIER, BRYAN	64
26	MAHOVLICH, FRANK	64
27	LECLAIR, JOHN	64
28	BATHGATE, ANDY	64
29	SELANNE, TEEMU	63
30	MALKIN, EVGENI	63
31	ROBITAILLE, LUC	63
32	SEDIN, HENRIK	63
33	OATES, ADAM	62
34	MESSIER, MARK	62
35	STASTNY, PETER	62
36	RECCHI, MARK	61
37	HULL, BRETT	61
38	BUCYK, JOHNNY	60
39	SUNDIN, MATS	60
40	BELIVEAU, JEAN	60
41	BURE, PAVEL	59
42	FORSBERG, PETER	59
43	SEDIN, DANIEL	59
44	GETZLAF, RYAN	59
45	TANGUAY, ALEX	58
46	HODGE, KEN	58
47	CLARKE, BOBBY	58
48	GILBERT, ROD	58
49	HEATLEY, DANY	58
50	HAWERCHUK, DALE	58
51	MODANO, MIKE	58
52	FRANCIS, RON	58
53	DELVECCHIO, ALEX	57
54	FLEURY, THEOREN	57
55	FEDOROV, SERGEI	57
56	STAMKOS, STEVEN	57
57	GILMOUR, DOUG	57
58	SAVARD, DENIS	57
59	DATSYUK, PAVEL	57
60	TURGEON, PIERRE	57
61	SITTLER, DARRYL	57
62	STAAL, ERIC	57
63	KOVALCHUK, ILYA	57
64	GOULET, MICHEL	56
65	SHUTT, STEVE	56
66	SPEZZA, JASON	56
67	WHEELER, BLAKE	56
68	ELIAS, PATRIK	56
69	PERREAULT, GILBERT	56
70	PERRY, COREY	56
71	COFFEY, PAUL	56
72	BENN, JAMIE	56
73	TAVARES, JOHN	55
74	ANDERSON, GLENN	55
75	ROENICK, JEREMY	55
76	LECAVALIER, VINCENT	55
77	ZETTERBERG, HENRIK	55
78	KARIYA, PAUL	55
79	MOGILNY, ALEXANDER	55
80	LEMAIRE, JACQUES	55
81	ALFREDSSON, DANIEL	55
82	TOEWS, JONATHAN	54
83	AMONTE, TONY	54
84	KESSEL, PHIL	54
85	HOSSA, MARIAN	54
86	RIBEIRO, MIKE	54
87	MULLEN, JOE	54
88	TKACHUK, KEITH	54
89	BACKSTROM, NICKLAS	54
90	DEMITRA, PAVOL	53
91	NICHOLLS, BERNIE	53
92	LaFONTAINE, PAT	53
93	CICCARELLI, DINO	53
94	NASH, RICK	53
95	KOPITAR, ANZE	52
96	NASLUND, MARKUS	52
97	PROVOST, CLAUDE	52
98	BACKSTROM, RALPH	52
99	KREJCI, DAVID	52
100	PARISE, ZACH	52
101	DAMPHOUSSE, VINCENT	52
102	FEDERKO, BERNIE	52
103	PROSPAL, VACLAV	52
104	SHANAHAN, BRENDAN	52
105	GABORIK, MARIAN	52
106	HEJDUK, MILAN	52
107	WHARRAM, KENNY	52
108	RICHER, STEPHANE	52
109	ROBERTS, GARY	52
110	YASHIN, ALEXEI	51
111	PRENTICE, DEAN	51
112	OLIVER, MURRAY	51
113	KEON, DAVE	51
114	RICHARDS, BRAD	51
115	WHITNEY, RAY	51
116	GOMEZ, SCOTT	51
117	MURRAY, GLEN	51
118	CASHMAN, WAYNE	51
119	GOYETTE, PHIL	51
120	GARTNER, MIKE	51
121	MARCHAND, BRAD	51
122	SEGUIN, TYLER	51
123	STRAKA, MARTIN	51
124	NYLANDER, MICHAEL	51
125	CARTER, JEFF	51
126	MARUK, DENNIS	51
127	PALFFY, ZIGMUND	50
128	MARTIN, PIT	50
129	BERTUZZI, TODD	50
130	DUCHENE, MATT	50
131	ERIKSSON, LOUI	50
132	MAHOVLICH, PETE	50
133	MCNAB, PETER	50
134	SMITH, BOBBY	50
135	THOMAS, STEVE	50
136	ROUSSEAU, BOBBY	50
137	POMINVILLE, JASON	50
138	VANEK, THOMAS	50
139	BRIND'AMOUR, ROD	50
140	MIDDLETON, RICK	50
141	HALL, TAYLOR	49
142	TAYLOR, DAVE	49
143	PACIORETTY, MAX	49
144	SULLIVAN, STEVE	49
145	BONDRA, PETER	49
146	NIEUWENDYK, JOE	49
147	MARLEAU, PATRICK	49
148	LUCIC, MILAN	49
149	NEDVED, PETR	49
150	BERGERON, PATRICE	49
151	RYAN, BOBBY	49
152	LADD, ANDREW	49
153	PULFORD, BOB	49
154	FERRARO, RAY	48
155	MCDONALD, LANNY	48
156	SAVARD, MARC	48
157	APPS, SYL	48
158	ARNOTT, JASON	48
159	TKACZUK, WALT	48
160	LARMER, STEVE	48
161	NEELY, CAM	48
162	HULL, DENNIS	48
163	GUERIN, BILL	48
164	TONELLI, JOHN	48
165	LAROUCHE, PIERRE	48
166	PRIMEAU, KEITH	48
167	WEIGHT, DOUG	48
168	NEVIN, BOB	48
169	COURTNALL, GEOFF	48
170	STUMPEL, JOZEF	48
171	BRIERE, DANNY	48
172	GIROUX, CLAUDE	48
173	STEVENS, KEVIN	48
174	HAVLAT, MARTIN	48
175	COURNOYER, YVAN	48
176	KOVALEV, ALEXEI	47
177	SYKORA, PETR	47
178	WILLIAMS, JUSTIN	47
179	TOCCHET, RICK	47
180	MULLER, KIRK	47
181	KUNITZ, CHRIS	47
182	PAVELSKI, JOE	47
183	SANDSTROM, TOMAS	47
184	EBERLE, JORDAN	47
185	JOKINEN, OLLI	47
186	MARTIN, RICK	47
187	PROPP, BRIAN	47
188	DOAN, SHANE	47
189	SEMIN, ALEXANDER	47
190	STASTNY, PAUL	47
191	JANNEY, CRAIG	47
192	GAGNE, SIMON	47
193	KELLY, RED	46
194	MACLEISH, RICK	46
195	COURTNALL, RUSS	46
196	UNGER, GARRY	46
197	SATAN, MIROSLAV	46
198	SHARP, PATRICK	46
199	VERBEEK, PAT	46
200	STILLMAN, CORY	46
201	HEXTALL, DENNIS	46
202	GARE, DANNY	46
203	HUNTER, DALE	46
204	ANDREYCHUK, DAVE	46
205	ZHAMNOV, ALEXEI	46
206	LANG, ROBERT	46
207	MACLEAN, JOHN	46
208	HAY, BILL	46
209	LYSIAK, TOM	46
210	RENBERG, MIKAEL	46
211	SMYTH, RYAN	46
212	VORACEK, JAKUB	46
213	HARTNELL, SCOTT	45
214	BROTEN, NEAL	45
215	NASLUND, MATS	45
216	HOLIK, BOBBY	45
217	OLCZYK, ED	45
218	PAPPIN, JIM	45
219	RIDLEY, MIKE	45
220	LINSEMAN, KEN	45
221	KOZLOV, VYACHESLAV	45
222	LUCE, DON	45
223	LANGKOW, DAYMOND	45
224	ROBERT, RENE	45
225	DUMONT, J.P.	44
226	CONROY, CRAIG	44
227	HADFIELD, VIC	44
228	MACLEAN, PAUL	44
229	STASTNY, ANTON	44
230	BACKES, DAVID	44
231	BOURQUE, RAY	44
232	NOLAN, OWEN	44
233	COLE, ERIK	44
234	KEHOE, RICK	44
235	PRONOVOST, JEAN	44
236	STEMKOWSKI, PETE	44
237	PARISE, JEAN-PAUL	44
238	BOLDIREV, IVAN	44
239	HORTON, NATHAN	44
240	REICHEL, ROBERT	44
241	SHEPPARD, RAY	44
242	RAMSAY, CRAIG	44
243	O'REILLY, TERRY	44
244	NEAL, JAMES	44
245	BURROWS, ALEXANDRE	44
246	WILLIAMS, TOMMY	44
247	GOLDSWORTHY, BILL	44
248	BELLOWS, BRIAN	44
249	MORRISON, BRENDAN	44
250	PAIEMENT, WILF	43
251	OGRODNICK, JOHN	43
252	SIMMER, CHARLIE	43
253	KARLSSON, ERIK	43
254	BOYES, BRAD	43
255	BLAKE, JASON	43
256	MCEACHERN, SHAWN	43
257	STEPAN, DEREK	43
258	MACMILLAN, BOB	43
259	KHRISTICH, DMITRI	43
260	RONNING, CLIFF	43
261	MORROW, BRENDEN	43
262	ROY, DEREK	43
263	HUDLER, JIRI	43
264	BARBER, BILL	43
265	VAIVE, RICK	42
266	ELLIS, RON	42
267	BALON, DAVE	42
268	SAMSONOV, SERGEI	42
269	CULLEN, JOHN	42
270	BULLARD, MIKE	42
271	ARMSTRONG, GEORGE	42
272	FOLIGNO, MIKE	42
273	BRUNETTE, ANDREW	42
274	VICKERS, STEVE	42
275	NILSSON, KENT	42
276	POULIN, DAVE	42
277	STANFIELD, FRED	42
278	PEDERSON, BARRY	42
279	CRAVEN, MURRAY	42
280	FOX, JIM	42
281	KERR, TIM	42
282	PLEKANEC, TOMAS	42
283	LEMIEUX, CLAUDE	42
284	TREMBLAY, MARIO	41
285	TIKKANEN, ESA	41
286	GILLIES, CLARK	41
287	KESLER, RYAN	41
288	DUPUIS, PASCAL	41
289	BERENSON, RED	41
290	LEACH, REGGIE	41
291	ERAT, MARTIN	41
292	COUTURE, LOGAN	41
293	KOIVU, MIKKO	41
294	STEEN, THOMAS	41
295	GELINAS, MARTIN	41
296	KRUSHELNYSKI, MIKE	41
297	BOUDRIAS, ANDRE	41
298	LANGENBRUNNER, JAMIE	41
299	FILPPULA, VALTTERI	41
300	LITTLE, BRYAN	41

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Gretzky is off the charts (even more dominant when looking just as ES, compared to looking at total offense).

Defensemen look much worse compared to the overall VsX summary. Coffey, Bourque and Karlsson are the only blueliners in the top 300. Most (all?) of Kelly's time from 1960 onwards was as a forward.

Henri Richard looks superb according to this metric (perhaps the strongest proof of his excellent ES scoring and limited powerplay time?) Joe Thornton also looks better than I thought.

Hall of Famer Dave Andreychuk is out of the 200, behind luminaries like Garry Unger, Miro Satan and Dennis Hextall.

Click to read more...

 

[BenchBrawl]

The difference between Gretzky and 2nd place Jagr is as big as the difference between Jagr and Jozef Stumpel.

Thanks for doing that HO, much appreciated.

 

[overpass]

• All the ES numbers were taken from Overpass's spreadsheet,

The ES assists in my spreadsheet from 1968-1987 are from HSP data. I haven't updated them with the official NHL numbers yet. I'm pretty sure there are some minor discrepancies between the two.

Regardless, it's much appreciated.

 

[frisco]

Hall of Famer Dave Andreychuk is out of the 200, behind luminaries like Garry Unger, Miro Satan and Dennis Hextall.

I know everyone likes to dump on Andreychuk but his forte was the power play. He's also ahead of HOFers Bill Barber and Clark Gillies on this list. Anyway, good work overall. Very nice chart.

My Best-Carey

 

[BraveCanadian]

We already knew that Gretzky was far and away the best ES player ever but it's interesting to see another perspective of it.

And hey, how about that Jammy Jagr guy? We knew about him at ES already too from overpass' earlier adjusted plus minus ratings.. but considering the dumpster fire teams he was playing on in his prime that is mighty impressive.

 

[Sadekuuro]

And hey, how about that Jammy Jagr guy? We knew about him at ES already too from overpass' earlier adjusted plus minus ratings.. but considering the dumpster fire teams he was playing on in his prime that is mighty impressive.

And ahead of that #66 guy, no less...

 

[reckoning]

Alex Tanguay in the top 50 ahead of several HHOFers is a big surprise.

 

[reckoning]

Also surprised that Bossy was significantly ahead of Trottier. I assumed removing power plays from their totals would've hurt him.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Both Jagr and Lafleur were impressive ES scorers.I wonder what Lafleur's score is for 6 years, which would reveal his true value without being screwed by the weak 7th year.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

The difference between Gretzky and 2nd place Jagr is as big as the difference between Jagr and Jozef Stumpel.

Great observation.

The ES assists in my spreadsheet from 1968-1987 are from HSP data. I haven't updated them with the official NHL numbers yet. I'm pretty sure there are some minor discrepancies between the two.

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting your numbers were incorrect - just that I haven't verified them personally. If anyone sees anything that looks out of line, let me know.

I know everyone likes to dump on Andreychuk but his forte was the power play. He's also ahead of HOFers Bill Barber and Clark Gillies on this list. Anyway, good work overall. Very nice chart.

I don't want to discount Andreychuk's performance on the powerplay - a point is a point - but it really emphasizes how reliant his production was on the PP.

Alex Tanguay in the top 50 ahead of several HHOFers is a big surprise.

He was an underrated ES scorer. In 2001 (Sakic's MVP season), Tanguay quitely finished 5th in ES scoring, but only had 18 PP points. In 2003 (Forsberg's MVP season), Tanguay was 10th in ES scoring, but only had 15 on the PP. In 2004, he was 5th again (5 points out of the league lead) - he had a much stronger 25 points with the man advantage. Then he was 7th in 2007, with only 21 PP points in a year where everyone was racking up points.

Also surprised that Bossy was significantly ahead of Trottier. I assumed removing power plays from their totals would've hurt him.

I was surprised as well. They were virtually even through their best four years, then Bossy pulls ahead.

Both Jagr and Lafleur were impressive ES scorers.I wonder what Lafleur's score is for 6 years, which would reveal his true value without being screwed by the weak 7th year.

Lafleur would have been 4th through six years (behind only Gretzky, Jagr and Esposito).

 

[BenchBrawl]

The LeClair-Lindros show their value at even-strenght.What a damn line that was.Even Renberg almost makes the Top 200, mostly from his Philadelphia years spent on that line.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

@overpass - I just realized I may have misread your data. (I was looking into why Joe Thornton was 10th all-time, which felt too high, when I noticed that his 2005-06 season appears to be double counted).

In column B (0,1,2,3,4,k) - does "0" mean a player wasn't traded, "k" means the total for a player who was traded, and 1/2/3/4 refers to their various stints on NHL teams during the year? Should I filter the data to show either "0" or "k" if I'm trying to do seasonal summaries?

 

[overpass]

@overpass - I just realized I may have misread your data. (I was looking into why Joe Thornton was 10th all-time, which felt too high, when I noticed that his 2005-06 season appears to be double counted).

In column B (0,1,2,3,4,k) - does "0" mean a player wasn't traded, "k" means the total for a player who was traded, and 1/2/3/4 refers to their various stints on NHL teams during the year? Should I filter the data to show either "0" or "k" if I'm trying to do seasonal summaries?

Yes. Remove any 1, 2, 3, 4.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Yes. Remove any 1, 2, 3, 4.

Thanks for clarifying. The first post has been updated (very minor differences - Thornton's position didn't change after all).

 

[kruezer]

Mind blowing that Howe manages to clock in a 22 despite 5 of his 6 Ross’ coming pre 1960. Somehow his otherworldly longevity still finds ways to surprise me.

Seeing St. Louis right below Iginla just really sticks it to me as a Flames fan. What a team they could’ve had thru the 2000s if only they’d given him a real shot.

 

[kruezer]

Also, where does Yashin deserve to be rated all time? Just a solid player overall whose career was unfortunately jaded by his off ice issues.

It’s feel like this biggest shot out of left field here is Prospal at 103. He had some great line mates over the years but thats a really impressive placement for a guy nobody ever thinks about anymore.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

As requested for the ATD, here's even-strength VsX. I'm posting this here (rather than the ATD forum) as I'm sure there are undrafteds included here.

Disclaimers:

• All the ES numbers were taken from Overpass's spreadsheet, and the yearly benchmarks were taken from Sprague Cleghorn's post. I haven't attempted to confirm/verify any of their information.
• The data only goes back to 1960.
• Each year is normalized to 70.

Results - top 300 ES VsX (1960-2017) - best seven years

1	GRETZKY, WAYNE	111
2	JAGR, JAROMIR	81
3	ESPOSITO, PHIL	75
4	LEMIEUX, MARIO	74
5	HULL, BOBBY	74
6	LAFLEUR, GUY	72
7	MIKITA, STAN	71
8	CROSBY, SIDNEY	70
9	YZERMAN, STEVE	68
10	THORNTON, JOE	68
11	BOSSY, MIKE	67
12	OVECHKIN, ALEX	67
13	SAKIC, JOE	66
14	DIONNE, MARCEL	66
15	KURRI, JARI	66
16	ULLMAN, NORM	66
17	RICHARD, HENRI	65
18	LINDROS, ERIC	65
19	RATELLE, JEAN	65
20	IGINLA, JAROME	65
21	ST. LOUIS, MARTIN	64
22	HOWE, GORDIE	64
23	KANE, PATRICK	64
24	ORR, BOBBY	64
25	TROTTIER, BRYAN	64
26	MAHOVLICH, FRANK	64
27	LECLAIR, JOHN	64
28	BATHGATE, ANDY	64
29	SELANNE, TEEMU	63
30	MALKIN, EVGENI	63
31	ROBITAILLE, LUC	63
32	SEDIN, HENRIK	63
33	OATES, ADAM	62
34	MESSIER, MARK	62
35	STASTNY, PETER	62
36	RECCHI, MARK	61
37	HULL, BRETT	61
38	BUCYK, JOHNNY	60
39	SUNDIN, MATS	60
40	BELIVEAU, JEAN	60
41	BURE, PAVEL	59
42	FORSBERG, PETER	59
43	SEDIN, DANIEL	59
44	GETZLAF, RYAN	59
45	TANGUAY, ALEX	58
46	HODGE, KEN	58
47	CLARKE, BOBBY	58
48	GILBERT, ROD	58
49	HEATLEY, DANY	58
50	HAWERCHUK, DALE	58
51	MODANO, MIKE	58
52	FRANCIS, RON	58
53	DELVECCHIO, ALEX	57
54	FLEURY, THEOREN	57
55	FEDOROV, SERGEI	57
56	STAMKOS, STEVEN	57
57	GILMOUR, DOUG	57
58	SAVARD, DENIS	57
59	DATSYUK, PAVEL	57
60	TURGEON, PIERRE	57
61	SITTLER, DARRYL	57
62	STAAL, ERIC	57
63	KOVALCHUK, ILYA	57
64	GOULET, MICHEL	56
65	SHUTT, STEVE	56
66	SPEZZA, JASON	56
67	WHEELER, BLAKE	56
68	ELIAS, PATRIK	56
69	PERREAULT, GILBERT	56
70	PERRY, COREY	56
71	COFFEY, PAUL	56
72	BENN, JAMIE	56
73	TAVARES, JOHN	55
74	ANDERSON, GLENN	55
75	ROENICK, JEREMY	55
76	LECAVALIER, VINCENT	55
77	ZETTERBERG, HENRIK	55
78	KARIYA, PAUL	55
79	MOGILNY, ALEXANDER	55
80	LEMAIRE, JACQUES	55
81	ALFREDSSON, DANIEL	55
82	TOEWS, JONATHAN	54
83	AMONTE, TONY	54
84	KESSEL, PHIL	54
85	HOSSA, MARIAN	54
86	RIBEIRO, MIKE	54
87	MULLEN, JOE	54
88	TKACHUK, KEITH	54
89	BACKSTROM, NICKLAS	54
90	DEMITRA, PAVOL	53
91	NICHOLLS, BERNIE	53
92	LaFONTAINE, PAT	53
93	CICCARELLI, DINO	53
94	NASH, RICK	53
95	KOPITAR, ANZE	52
96	NASLUND, MARKUS	52
97	PROVOST, CLAUDE	52
98	BACKSTROM, RALPH	52
99	KREJCI, DAVID	52
100	PARISE, ZACH	52
101	DAMPHOUSSE, VINCENT	52
102	FEDERKO, BERNIE	52
103	PROSPAL, VACLAV	52
104	SHANAHAN, BRENDAN	52
105	GABORIK, MARIAN	52
106	HEJDUK, MILAN	52
107	WHARRAM, KENNY	52
108	RICHER, STEPHANE	52
109	ROBERTS, GARY	52
110	YASHIN, ALEXEI	51
111	PRENTICE, DEAN	51
112	OLIVER, MURRAY	51
113	KEON, DAVE	51
114	RICHARDS, BRAD	51
115	WHITNEY, RAY	51
116	GOMEZ, SCOTT	51
117	MURRAY, GLEN	51
118	CASHMAN, WAYNE	51
119	GOYETTE, PHIL	51
120	GARTNER, MIKE	51
121	MARCHAND, BRAD	51
122	SEGUIN, TYLER	51
123	STRAKA, MARTIN	51
124	NYLANDER, MICHAEL	51
125	CARTER, JEFF	51
126	MARUK, DENNIS	51
127	PALFFY, ZIGMUND	50
128	MARTIN, PIT	50
129	BERTUZZI, TODD	50
130	DUCHENE, MATT	50
131	ERIKSSON, LOUI	50
132	MAHOVLICH, PETE	50
133	MCNAB, PETER	50
134	SMITH, BOBBY	50
135	THOMAS, STEVE	50
136	ROUSSEAU, BOBBY	50
137	POMINVILLE, JASON	50
138	VANEK, THOMAS	50
139	BRIND'AMOUR, ROD	50
140	MIDDLETON, RICK	50
141	HALL, TAYLOR	49
142	TAYLOR, DAVE	49
143	PACIORETTY, MAX	49
144	SULLIVAN, STEVE	49
145	BONDRA, PETER	49
146	NIEUWENDYK, JOE	49
147	MARLEAU, PATRICK	49
148	LUCIC, MILAN	49
149	NEDVED, PETR	49
150	BERGERON, PATRICE	49
151	RYAN, BOBBY	49
152	LADD, ANDREW	49
153	PULFORD, BOB	49
154	FERRARO, RAY	48
155	MCDONALD, LANNY	48
156	SAVARD, MARC	48
157	APPS, SYL	48
158	ARNOTT, JASON	48
159	TKACZUK, WALT	48
160	LARMER, STEVE	48
161	NEELY, CAM	48
162	HULL, DENNIS	48
163	GUERIN, BILL	48
164	TONELLI, JOHN	48
165	LAROUCHE, PIERRE	48
166	PRIMEAU, KEITH	48
167	WEIGHT, DOUG	48
168	NEVIN, BOB	48
169	COURTNALL, GEOFF	48
170	STUMPEL, JOZEF	48
171	BRIERE, DANNY	48
172	GIROUX, CLAUDE	48
173	STEVENS, KEVIN	48
174	HAVLAT, MARTIN	48
175	COURNOYER, YVAN	48
176	KOVALEV, ALEXEI	47
177	SYKORA, PETR	47
178	WILLIAMS, JUSTIN	47
179	TOCCHET, RICK	47
180	MULLER, KIRK	47
181	KUNITZ, CHRIS	47
182	PAVELSKI, JOE	47
183	SANDSTROM, TOMAS	47
184	EBERLE, JORDAN	47
185	JOKINEN, OLLI	47
186	MARTIN, RICK	47
187	PROPP, BRIAN	47
188	DOAN, SHANE	47
189	SEMIN, ALEXANDER	47
190	STASTNY, PAUL	47
191	JANNEY, CRAIG	47
192	GAGNE, SIMON	47
193	KELLY, RED	46
194	MACLEISH, RICK	46
195	COURTNALL, RUSS	46
196	UNGER, GARRY	46
197	SATAN, MIROSLAV	46
198	SHARP, PATRICK	46
199	VERBEEK, PAT	46
200	STILLMAN, CORY	46
201	HEXTALL, DENNIS	46
202	GARE, DANNY	46
203	HUNTER, DALE	46
204	ANDREYCHUK, DAVE	46
205	ZHAMNOV, ALEXEI	46
206	LANG, ROBERT	46
207	MACLEAN, JOHN	46
208	HAY, BILL	46
209	LYSIAK, TOM	46
210	RENBERG, MIKAEL	46
211	SMYTH, RYAN	46
212	VORACEK, JAKUB	46
213	HARTNELL, SCOTT	45
214	BROTEN, NEAL	45
215	NASLUND, MATS	45
216	HOLIK, BOBBY	45
217	OLCZYK, ED	45
218	PAPPIN, JIM	45
219	RIDLEY, MIKE	45
220	LINSEMAN, KEN	45
221	KOZLOV, VYACHESLAV	45
222	LUCE, DON	45
223	LANGKOW, DAYMOND	45
224	ROBERT, RENE	45
225	DUMONT, J.P.	44
226	CONROY, CRAIG	44
227	HADFIELD, VIC	44
228	MACLEAN, PAUL	44
229	STASTNY, ANTON	44
230	BACKES, DAVID	44
231	BOURQUE, RAY	44
232	NOLAN, OWEN	44
233	COLE, ERIK	44
234	KEHOE, RICK	44
235	PRONOVOST, JEAN	44
236	STEMKOWSKI, PETE	44
237	PARISE, JEAN-PAUL	44
238	BOLDIREV, IVAN	44
239	HORTON, NATHAN	44
240	REICHEL, ROBERT	44
241	SHEPPARD, RAY	44
242	RAMSAY, CRAIG	44
243	O'REILLY, TERRY	44
244	NEAL, JAMES	44
245	BURROWS, ALEXANDRE	44
246	WILLIAMS, TOMMY	44
247	GOLDSWORTHY, BILL	44
248	BELLOWS, BRIAN	44
249	MORRISON, BRENDAN	44
250	PAIEMENT, WILF	43
251	OGRODNICK, JOHN	43
252	SIMMER, CHARLIE	43
253	KARLSSON, ERIK	43
254	BOYES, BRAD	43
255	BLAKE, JASON	43
256	MCEACHERN, SHAWN	43
257	STEPAN, DEREK	43
258	MACMILLAN, BOB	43
259	KHRISTICH, DMITRI	43
260	RONNING, CLIFF	43
261	MORROW, BRENDEN	43
262	ROY, DEREK	43
263	HUDLER, JIRI	43
264	BARBER, BILL	43
265	VAIVE, RICK	42
266	ELLIS, RON	42
267	BALON, DAVE	42
268	SAMSONOV, SERGEI	42
269	CULLEN, JOHN	42
270	BULLARD, MIKE	42
271	ARMSTRONG, GEORGE	42
272	FOLIGNO, MIKE	42
273	BRUNETTE, ANDREW	42
274	VICKERS, STEVE	42
275	NILSSON, KENT	42
276	POULIN, DAVE	42
277	STANFIELD, FRED	42
278	PEDERSON, BARRY	42
279	CRAVEN, MURRAY	42
280	FOX, JIM	42
281	KERR, TIM	42
282	PLEKANEC, TOMAS	42
283	LEMIEUX, CLAUDE	42
284	TREMBLAY, MARIO	41
285	TIKKANEN, ESA	41
286	GILLIES, CLARK	41
287	KESLER, RYAN	41
288	DUPUIS, PASCAL	41
289	BERENSON, RED	41
290	LEACH, REGGIE	41
291	ERAT, MARTIN	41
292	COUTURE, LOGAN	41
293	KOIVU, MIKKO	41
294	STEEN, THOMAS	41
295	GELINAS, MARTIN	41
296	KRUSHELNYSKI, MIKE	41
297	BOUDRIAS, ANDRE	41
298	LANGENBRUNNER, JAMIE	41
299	FILPPULA, VALTTERI	41
300	LITTLE, BRYAN	41

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Gretzky is off the charts (even more dominant when looking just as ES, compared to looking at total offense).

Defensemen look much worse compared to the overall VsX summary. Coffey, Bourque and Karlsson are the only blueliners in the top 300. Most (all?) of Kelly's time from 1960 onwards was as a forward.

Henri Richard looks superb according to this metric (perhaps the strongest proof of his excellent ES scoring and limited powerplay time?) Joe Thornton also looks better than I thought.

Hall of Famer Dave Andreychuk is out of the 200, behind luminaries like Garry Unger, Miro Satan and Dennis Hextall.

"Defensemen look much worse compared to the overall VsX summary. Coffey, Bourque and Karlsson are the only blueliners in the top 300."

What about Orr?

 

[Black Gold Extractor]

NHL.com has EV scoring all the way back to 1933-34. (Here's a link to 1949-50.) Here's Gordie Howe's 7 best seasons, with the benchmark normalized to 70:

[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]Season[/TD]
[TD]EVPTS[/TD]
[TD]Benchmark[/TD]
[TD]VsX(EVPTS)[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 1949-50[/TD][TD]51[/TD][TD]50 (avg. of top 6)[/TD]
[TD]71.4[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]1950-51[/TD]
[TD]70[/TD]
[TD]50 (#2 Richard)[/TD]
[TD]98.0[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]1951-52[/TD]
[TD]61[/TD]
[TD]43 (#3 Mosienko)[/TD]
[TD]99.3[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]1952-53[/TD]
[TD]67[/TD]
[TD]47 (#3 Hergesheimer)[/TD]
[TD]99.7[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]1953-54[/TD]
[TD]48[/TD]
[TD]38 (#2 Richard)[/TD]
[TD]88.4[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]1956-57[/TD]
[TD]57[/TD]
[TD]57 (#2 Howe)[/TD]
[TD]70.0[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]1957-58[/TD]
[TD]49[/TD]
[TD]49 (#3 Howe)[/TD]
[TD]70.0[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Average[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]85.3[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

And ahead of that #66 guy, no less...

VsX is merciless towards players who don't play full seasons. It's a per-season metric, not a per-game metric.

We already knew that Gretzky was far and away the best ES player ever but it's interesting to see another perspective of it.

And hey, how about that Jammy Jagr guy? We knew about him at ES already too from overpass' earlier adjusted plus minus ratings.. but considering the dumpster fire teams he was playing on in his prime that is mighty impressive.

Jagr's numbers are impressive indeed, but he didn't exactly play on teams that made it hard to put up offensive numbers.

 

[Black Gold Extractor]

Here's Maurice Richard:

Season	EVPTS	Benchmark	Notes	VsX (EVPTS)
1946-47	55	50	(#2 Kennedy)	77.0
1954-55	50	47	(#2 Beliveau)	74.5
1947-48	44	44	(#2 Richard)	70.0
1950-51	50	50	(#2 Richard)	70.0
1953-54	38	38	(#2 Richard)	70.0
1944-45	61	65	(average of top 8, with WWII fudge)	65.7
1952-53	44	47	(#3 Hergesheimer)	65.5
Average				70.4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Hockey Outsider]

What about Orr?

Orr goes without saying.

VsX is merciless towards players who don't play full seasons. It's a per-season metric, not a per-game metric.

I did a quick calculation of how Lemieux would have fared, assuming he never missed a game, and assuming the benchmarks wouldn't have changed (both assumptions are unrealistic, of course). His seven-year score would have been 91.3.

 

[overpass]

Henri Richard is another player who always missed a few games. Under the same assumptions as HO used for Lemieux, his seven year score would have been 75.7.

 

[DitchMarner]

Nice... I have four of the top 45 players on the table on my ATD team (Lemieux, Thornton, Sundin, Bure).

Heh... Mats is higher than Dale Hawerchuk.

 

[Sadekuuro]

VsX is merciless towards players who don't play full seasons. It's a per-season metric, not a per-game metric.

Even so, wouldn't you have thought that a compilation of Lemieux's best seasons (which weren't full but were close enough for him to win scoring titles) would beat Jagr's?

 

[DitchMarner]

Everyone in the top 50 is or will be in the HHOF except probably Tanguay, Hodge and Heatley. We'll see about LeClair.