Player Discussion Evan Bouchard

[MessierThanThou]

Like one game erases a season.

Then you think its a good idea to double down.

He looked better in front of Pickard quite a bit this season. I know you need Bouchard to be the worst defenseman ever so you can prop up Stu, but reality disagrees with you.

 

[guymez]

He looked better in front of Pickard quite a bit this season. I know you need Bouchard to be the worst defenseman ever so you can prop up Stu, but reality disagrees with you.

LOL...sure he did.
Now it becomes about propping up Stu.

Its a strawman festival!

Dude...you're funny.

 

[Oilhawks]

I'd hate to see him traded because the team won't have an elite OFD talent like his for another 20+ years, but it would be interesting to see all of his haters spin things after he goes on to win a Norris elsewhere

 

[MessierThanThou]

LOL...sure he did.
Now it becomes about propping up Stu.

Its a strawman festival!

Dude...you're funny.

I've read your posts all year and you'd win Gold if they gave out medals for mental gymnastics.

 

[guymez]

I've read your posts all year and you'd win Gold if they gave out medals for mental gymnastics.

Look...I know that the strawman tactic is popular on here but just know that I am going to call it out.
Try bringing something of substance,...not fantasy/conjecture.

Your go to repsonse (when you have nothing of substance) is to post the laughing emoji...incoming laughing emoji in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.....

 

[Oilhawks]

Look...I know that the strawman tactic is popular on here but just know that I am going to call it out.
Try bringing something of substance,...not fantasy/conjecture.

If directed at me (mine was directed in a general sense), speculation is not fantasy / conjecture.

It is incredibly likely that this player goes on to win a Norris during his prime. Plenty of "bad defense!!" defensemen win Norris': Karlsson, Burns etc.

His offensive stats in this years (so far) and last years are top 5 ALL TIME. This is a player. You make it work, warts and all

Trading him will be for a value loss, and the player they bring in will not put up the offense this player does. He is an offensive driver, full stop. A f***ing unicorn player.

Bouchard out for some two way vanilla D last night and this series is 3-0 Kings. He has 6 GWG in the playoffs, he has actually contributed to series wins in a very tangible way.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Look...I know that the strawman tactic is popular on here but just know that I am going to call it out.
Try bringing something of substance,...not fantasy/conjecture.

Your go to repsonse (when you have nothing of substance) is to post the laughing emoji...incoming laughing emoji in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.....

We all know your act, dude. We know you have this blind faith in Skinner and Bouchard has to be the antichrist to explain Stu's horrid play.

 

[guymez]

If directed at me (mine was directed in a general sense), speculation is not fantasy / conjecture.

It is incredibly likely that this player goes on to win a Norris during his prime. Plenty of "bad defense!!" defensemen win Norris': Karlsson, Burns etc.

His offensive stats in this years (so far) and last years are top 5 ALL TIME. This is a player. You make it work, warts and all

Trading him will be for a value loss, and the player they bring in will not put up the offense this player does. He is an offensive driver, full stop. A f***ing unicorn player.

I dont know what post you are talking about. I didnt direct my post at anyone in particular.

Im actually quite surprised that you would respond with that and direct it at me.
C'est la vie.
If I have an issue with you or anyone else I will enage them.

Also...I have qualified this over and over again but I can do it one more time. There is a degree to which a player can be bad. Bouchards level of bad (standing around in the D zone with no sense of urgency whatsoever to make a play) is unqiue to him.

I watch a fair bit of hockey and every single other offensive Dman of note at least tries to make a play. Maybe they make the wrong play but they try to do something.

Bouchard all too often stands there like his feet are stuck in cement. He just stands there and watches the other team score. Its like he cant process the play in the D zone fast enough to make a decision on what to do/how to react.

Lastly... this unicorn nonsense is just that...nonsense.

 

[guymez]

We all know your act, dude. We know you have this blind faith in Skinner and Bouchard has to be the antichrist to explain Stu's horrid play.

You just love to make shit up. If you had proof of this you would post it. You have no proof because I have never made any argument like that.

Your posts just get dumber and dumber dude
Maybe you need to take a break.

 

[MessierThanThou]

You just love to make shit up. If you had proof of this you would post it. You have no proof because I have never made any argument like that.

Your posts just get dumber and dumber dude
Maybe you need to take a break.

Sounds like I hit a nerve Maybe instead of throwing a tantrum you should take your own advice and enjoy some sunshine.

You can lie to me but most of know your schtick pretty well by now.

 

[Oilhawks]

I dont know what post you are talking about. I didnt direct this at anyone in particular.
Im actually quite surprised that you would respond with that.
If I have an issue with you or anyone else I will enage them.

Also...I have qualified this over and over again but I can do it one more time. There is a degree to which a player can be bad. Bouchards level of bad (standing around in the D zone with no sense of urgency whatsoever to make a play) is unqiue to him.

I watch a fair bit of hockey and every single other offensive Dman of note at least tries to make a play. Maybe they make the wrong play but they try to do something.

Bouchard all too often stands there like his feet are stuck in cement. He just stands there and watches the other team score. Its like he cant process the play in the D zone fast enough to make a decision on what to do/how to react.

So this unicormn nonsense is just that...nonsense.

I must have the poster you were referring to ignored.

Regardless, to the bolded, Karlsson and Burns examples I used are known to be "horrible" defensively. Same with the Caps Carlson. Not sure what you mean be "at least tries to make a play". They get burned on defense plenty. But they are considered valuable players to their team and gamebreakers in offense.

Bouchard is the same. These are unicorn players that you keep and figure out how to insulate.

 

[guymez]

Sounds like I hit a nerve Maybe instead of throwing a tantrum you should take your own advice and enjoy some sunshine.

You can lie to me but most of know your schtick pretty well by now.

Not at all....I just know a dumb poorly thought out post when I see it.

If you're so convinced of your own bullshit then by all means do us both a favor and put me on ignore.

 

[Not Canada Drai]

If Bouchard is not an Oiler for life I'm gonna cry

 

[MessierThanThou]

Not at all....I just know a dumb poorly thought out post when I see it.

If you're so convinced of your own bullshit then by all means do us both a favor and put me on ignore.

You replied to me, dude. I'm sorry the truth triggers you so much. And why would I put you on ignore when you make me laugh this hard?

 

[guymez]

I must have the poster you were referring to ignored.

Regardless, to the bolded, Karlsson and Burns examples I used are known to be "horrible" defensively. Same with the Caps Carlson. Not sure what you mean be "at least tries to make a play". They get burned on defense plenty. But they are considered valuable players to their team and gamebreakers in offense.

Bouchard is the same. These are unicorn players that you keep and figure out how to insulate.

Show me plays (more than 1) of an other offensive dman that consistently stands and watches the play around him in his own zone like Bouchard does.
Its not about getting burned either. Every dman gets burned.

Ill try to break this down a bit...

The 2nd Kings goal (game 2) was a classic example of a Bouchard play on D.
He didnt have clue what to do so he just stands off to the side and watches Byfield skate in on net and roof the puck. This isnt an isolated incident either. It happens a lot.
Its a bit astonishing to me that you are defending plays like this by blowing it off.

I have watched hockey since Coffey played and I have never seen a talented offensive dman that stands there frozen (with no sense of urgency what so ever) time and time again.
I have seen bad defensive reads....overcompensating...etc.....but Bouchard has become predictable with his lack of urgency and total lack of a response.

Defend it if you must but it is what it is.

There is no doubting Bouchards offensive talent but to just blow off or minimize these absolutely inexcusable errors is very perplexing to me.

I hope to hell the coaching staff isnt taking the approach of..."oh well...its just Bouch being Bouch"

Bouchard has to address this fatal flaw.

 

[guymez]

You replied to me, dude. I'm sorry the truth triggers you so much. And why would I put you on ignore when you make me laugh this hard?

You're funnier than you realize dude but for all the wrong reasons.

Keep peddling your special brand of bullshit.

 

[Oilhawks]

Show me plays (more than 1) of an other offensive dman that consistently stands and watches the play around him in his own zone like Bouchard does.

The 2nd Kings goal (game 2) was a classic example of a Bouchard play on D.
He didnt have clue what to do so he just stands off to the side and watches Byfield skate in on net and roof the puck. This isnt an isolated incident either. It happens a lot.
Its a bit astonishing to me that you are defending plays like this by blowing it off.

I have watched hockey since Coffey played and I have never seen a talented offensive dman that stands there frozen (with no sense of urgency what so ever) time and time again.
I have seen bad defensive reads....overcompensating...etc.....but Bouchard has become predictable with his lack of urgency and total lack of a response.

Defend it if you must but it is what it is.

I’ll see what I can dig up for you. But it looks like only Oilers fans (and obsessive Flames fans) are ridiculous enough to make “low lites” compilations of a star player.

I’m sure if Karlsson or any other high profile OFD played here, they would make the same video packages

This fanbase is obsessed with scapegoating good players, very sad

I mean JFC, you can make highlight videos of McDavid and Draisaitl standing around as well, maybe we should do that too? (Surprised some of the posters that blamed the Finals loss on McDrai didn’t do that, honestly)

Even better, some of the haters in this fanbase would have no doubt been making the same compilations of Coffey defensive low lites.

 

[guymez]

I’ll see what I can dig up for you. But it looks like only Oilers fans (and obsessive Flames fans) are ridiculous enough to make “low lites” compilations of a star player.

Come on dude...pejoratives...this is so low brow. Surely you're better than this.

I’m sure if Karlsson or any other high profile OFD played here, they would make the same video packages

This fanbase is obsessed with scapegoating good players, very sad

I mean JFC, you can make highlight videos of McDavid and Draisaitl standing around as well, maybe we should do that too?

Again...you are misrepresnting my position.
Considering the pejoratives above...probably best to push pause on this conversation.

You and I have had some good honest conversations...this is headed in the wrong direction.

 

[Oilhawks]

Come on dude...pejoratives...this is so low brow. Surely you're better than this.


Again...you are misrepresnting my position.
Considering the pejoratives above...probably best to push pause on this conversation.

What pejoratives?

 

[guymez]

What pejoratives?

The implication was that I am some kiind of a negative obsessed Oilers fan or a closet Flames fan.
Which is funny because I am usually one of the more optimisitc posters on here.
Its entirely possible I read/interpretd that wrong.

I have though also seen posts directed at me about being a Stu lover...or being the director of his fan club....etc.
Its one of the reasons (not the only one) why I stopped posting in the PGT.
No need for any of that BS IMO....its high school stuff. I am just looking to point out things as I see them.
Sometimes unique perspectives arent exactly embraced on here during certain times.

The signal to noise ratio drops to near zero after losses which isnt worthy of my time to read or participate in.
I check in once in a while to see if things have changed buts that about it for me in the PGT's.

I am just a long time Oilers fan that doesnt hate or love any specific player.
I respect players and their abilities but I am completely loyal to the team...full stop.

If it was really going to make the team better then I would trade any player. It has nothing to do with me 'hating'the player...it has to do with wanting to see this team win.

Its about the team for me..
You will never see me on here defending a player at any cost like some posters do. Thats how I see this Bouchard debate sometimes.

I try to acknowledges the good (like I do with Bouchard or Nurse) but if the bad is bad enough then I will highlight it.
I want Bouchard to be better defensively because it helps the team be better.

If there is a pattern that costs this team games (like the pattern that clearly exisits for Bouchard) then of course I am going to call attention to that.
Im not going to minimize it when its not something that the team should just 'have to live with'.

It also doesnt mean I hate the player any more than calling out brutal defence means I am a Stu lover which (correct me if Im wrong) you have indirectly thrown my way (possibly out of frustration) in the past.

 

[MessierThanThou]

You're funnier than you realize dude but for all the wrong reasons.

Keep peddling your special brand of bullshit.

You needed to edit a two sentence reply to a three sentence retort. Really making that little gumby brain work extra hard, aren't we?

 

[guymez]

You needed to edit a two sentence reply to a three sentence retort. Really making that little gumby brain work extra hard, aren't we?

Actually that is kind of funny beccause I do struggle with dyslexia which means I tend to flip letters (and sometimes words) and not even see certain letters properly. So I have to always look at my posts a few times to see how bad I messed it up.
Sometimes I dont pick up all the mistakes the first time I read thorugh it.

So I guess that typing in general (especially if I am multitasking) can get a little tough on the gumby brain. heh

 

[MessierThanThou]

Actually that is kind of funny beccause I do struggle with dyslexia which means I tend to flip letters (and sometimes words) and not even see certain letters properly. So I have to always look at my posts a few times to see how bad I messed it up.
Sometimes I dont pick up all the mistakes the first time I read thorugh it.

So I guess that typing in general (especially if I am multitasking) can get a little tough on the gumby brain. heh

Hey man, when you drop personal insults first I consider that open season, but I didn't mean to hit close to home. I just saw an opening and took it. Even during the height of the Skinner wars you were pretty diplomatic, so I was a bit surprised. Either way, nobody on here should be fighting after an Oilers win.

 

[guymez]

Hey man, when you drop personal insults first I consider that open season, but I didn't mean to hit close to home. I just saw an opening and took it. Even during the height of the Skinner wars you were pretty diplomatic, so I was a bit surprised. Either way, nobody on here should be fighting after an Oilers win.

Its all good dude.
I actually did have a chuckle over your post (it was a funny dig) when I read it a 2nd time...it was kind of funny because I laugh at myself for some of the ridiculous spelling mistakes I tend to make and for just having to go over and over my posts and edit them all the time. At least with emails I am forced to go over them a few times before htting send...no editing available after sending it.
Here I can and do post stuff too quickly because I can edit afterwards.
In any event your post broke the tension for sure.

Things get heated...I think its just passion and us Oilers fans are nothing if we arent passionate.

 

[Sheikyerbouti]

I think the Karlsson/Bouchard comparison is pretty accurate, and both players had sustained runs where they switched the flip and played at an MVP level.


But like Karlsson, a massive contract will be incredibly high-risk. When Bouchard's on he's probably worth 12+, but it's been rare this season