Player Discussion Evan Bouchard

[guymez]

Like I said, Kelly is referencing numbers from an independent firm that every team in the league uses. Teams have literally stopped collecting data themselves because it's so inferior to SportsLogIQ's. Every NHL team has access to exactly what Kelly has access to.

High Danger numbers have nothing to do with SportsLogIQ. You're thinking of basic public models. SportsLogIQ uses machine learning for their models. It factors in everything you see. Player location, opponent locations, goalie location, was there a screen?, tip?, east/west pass?, how far the pass was, the speed of the pass, how close opponents were, how close sticks were, etc.

It's basically the eye test on steroids powered by AI.

Mike Kelly has limited (if any) access to NHL team processed data...to think otherwise is just foolish.
Numbers are one thing but how they are utilized is what really matters.

The point I was trying to make about the HDSC stat was that far too often on here posters post numbers without a robust understanding of what it is they are actually posting.

So they post it like its a mic drop moment which is really quite amusing.

 

[McDNicks17]

Mike Kelly has limited (if any) access to NHL team processed data...to think otherwise is just foolish.
Numbers are one thing but how they are utilized is what really matters.

The point I was trying to make about the HDSC stat was that far too often on here posters post numbers without a robust understanding of what it is they are actually posting.

There's no "processing" to be done. NHL teams use SportsLogIQ because that's what they do haha.

Lots of media members have access to the same service. You'll see their numbers referenced on Sportsnet all the time.


I get your point. It's just irrelevant to this.

 

[guymez]

There's no "processing" to be done. NHL teams use SportsLogIQ because that's what they do haha.

Lots of media members have access to the same service. You'll see their numbers referenced on Sportsnet all the time.


I get your point. It's just irrelevant to this.

So your saying that SportLogIQ provides exactly the same service that they charge NHL teams for at no cost to anyone ?

 

[McDNicks17]

So your saying that SportsLogIQ provides exactly the same service that they charge NHL teams for at no cost to anyone ?

I wish! It's super expensive. You probably won't see anyone outside a team or media outfit with access to it.

Either that or work for them like Mike Kelly does.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Where's the "Cam Barker-esque turnover" stat?

 

[McDNicks17]

Where's the "Cam Barker-esque turnover" stat?

Some of us are still trying to block that era from our memory.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

There is a significant amount of myopic thinking when it comes to analytics. Twitter posts and even posts on here throwing around screen shots like its a mic drop moment. Like it signals the end of a discussion.
Nonsense.
There are many flaws with these numbers...the HDSC is one that I have talked about a lot.
Its a flawed stat.

In terms of Bouchard this isnt just about turnovers like Mike Kelly seems to think.
Its about decisions without the puck as well.
I would even say that his decisions without the puck are much a bigger problem than turnovers.

The T-Bay game is only one of many examples.

This post nails it.

I am not sure its an althleticism thing...I think its more of a mental thing.
He just doesnt seem to have a very high level of mental commitment to being a consistent top level NHL dman.
He doesnt seem to have the tools.
So he just checks out mentally. The bad Boucahrd shows up.

That wrap around goal in the T-Bay game (IIRC their 2nd goal) was a perfect example. The T-Bay player is breaking down the wing and cutting in on net and Bouchard did nothing.
All Bouchard had to do was take away the net front option from the T-Bay player and he didnt even do that. Instead Bouchard just drifts away from the play completely and watches the puck.
So Skinner has to intially commit to protecting the net front (which IMO he over committed to) which then allows the T-Bay player to do the wrap around.
Any competent NHL dman takes away the net fron option so all Skinner has to do is deal with the wrap around. Bouchard was 90% to blame for that goal.
I am watching Bouchard on that play thinking...WTF!!! Dude f*cking do something! Bouchard did absolutely nothing. His response was a joke.
An competent NHL dman just doesnt react that way...nevermind a top pairing NHL damn.
Thats a reaction to a play we would NEVER see from Ekholm or any other legit top paring dman.
Yet Bouchard does that and similar dumb things multiple times in a game despite the fact that he has played over 300 NHL games.

As @KeithIsActuallyBad stated as well. This is partially on Knoblauch because this team cant afford to have bad Bouchard on the ice f**king things up. Worse yet...to have Bouchard start the 2nd period after how he stared the first is inexcusable IMO.

I do think the number 1 issue with Bouchard is mental/IQ, but compared to other top defensemen I will die on the sword that he lacks east/west athletic ability and that his hurting his game this year. I guess I should call it "agility"

It's the same thing that Bedard lacks. An ability to stop and turn on a dime.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

This game was a perfect example of Brian Burke's quote "Bouchard helps both teams win the game"

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

this guy has rock in his brains...got dummied on the 3-2 goal

then shoots right into the Sabres shinpads to end the game

 

[ManByng]

This game was a perfect example of Brian Burke's quote "Bouchard helps both teams win the game"

Wait 'till they sign him to a 7 year, $8 mil/per contract this summer !!

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

this guy has rock in his brains...got dummied on the 3-2 goal

then shoots right into the Sabres shinpads to end the game

Yup!!!! Like I have said before, he lacks East/West mobility which is now resulting in him constantly getting his shots blocked. Klingberg is a great example of an Oiler who is good at getting pucks through on the net.

On a positive note, hopefully this PP goal will open the flood gates going into the playoffs. Our PP really needs Bouchard shooting the puck.

 

[MessierThanThou]

I wish! It's super expensive. You probably won't see anyone outside a team or media outfit with access to it.

Either that or work for them like Mike Kelly does.

Was it created and patented by a member of the Skinner family?

Just trying to understand what convinced this team to stick with the status quo.

 

[Sheikyerbouti]

That "stat site" provides 99% of the data every NHL analytics department in the league uses.

Do a quick google of SportsLogIQ. They do some really interesting stuff.

Deep learning machines are not weighting for who is receiving the puck though, so the model is inherently biased. It wouldn't matter for almost all scenario's, but who else is in Bouchard's situation?

SportsLog logs. People with McDrai have inflated logs, it's a natural law.

 

[guymez]

Yup!!!! Like I have said before, he lacks East/West mobility which is now resulting in him constantly getting his shots blocked. Klingberg is a great example of an Oiler who is good at getting pucks through on the net.

On a positive note, hopefully this PP goal will open the flood gates going into the playoffs. Our PP really needs Bouchard shooting the puck.

It took until game 64 for him to score one like that on the PP.
Elite.