Player Discussion Evan Bouchard

[foshizzle]

FFS.
You cant even have a honest discussion.

Just to hard to admit that you were wrong...eh?

Hahaha what? You’re not having an honest discussion. You posted two opinion pieces that align with your opinion and said see.

Fact is- as a young defensemen his zone denials and zone exits were excellent. When he got more mins his zone denials and zone exits remain excellent. Now- with a complimentary partner- his zone denials, zone exits, are elite. It’s the progression of a good player.

An honest discussion would be “he’s an excellent defensemen” and his Partnership has been great with Ekholm- not Bouchard was developed by Ekholm and will be suspect away from him. Jesus. If you want to have a discussion on what his future is based on what he has done- sure. You seem to think he’s going to fall off a cliff without Ekholm

 

[guymez]

@foshizzle

Also...still waiting for your 'numbers' to refute what I posted above. That Boucard was a 3rd pairing dman playing just over 17 min TOI before Eckholm got here.

 

[guymez]

Hahaha what? You’re not having an honest discussion. You posted two opinion pieces that align with your opinion and said see.

Fact is- as a young defensemen his zone denials and zone exits were excellent. When he got more mins his zone denials and zone exits remain excellent. Now- with a complimentary partner- his zone denials, zone exits, are elite. It’s the progression of a good player.

An honest discussion would be “he’s an excellent defensemen” and his Partnership has been great with Ekholm- not Bouchard was developed by Ekholm and will be suspect away from him. Jesus. If you want to have a discussion on what his future is based on what he has done- sure. You seem to think he’s going to fall off a cliff without Ekholm

Do you know what the word mentor means?
It means to provide influence, guidance and direction.
That means helping to develop Bouchard who was far from a finished product before Ekholm got here.
Thats as honest as it gets so you can try to split hairs if you want.

Its becoming pretty clear...as soon as you get backed into a corner rather than admit you were wrong you try and weasel your way out by any means possible.
That is not at all honest.
It is juvenille though.

 

[foshizzle]

@foshizzle

Also...still waiting for your 'numbers' to refute what I posted above. That Boucard was a 3rd pairing dman playing just over 17 min TOI before Eckholm got here.

I never disputed that. You love making strawman arguments holy shit. Him playing 3rd pair didn’t mean he should be playing 3rd pair. He was the best on the team for zone denials and exits.

Your logic- Ekholm landed and he instantly became a number 1 dman. Instant. Or maybe, just maybe- he was always that player that just needed opportunity?

I wonder why they dont put Ekholm with Ceci and turn him into another Bouchard. After that- put him with VD. You’d have 3 Bouchard’s!! You know- because it’s Ekholm that develops defencemen

Mentorship and developing are two different things. Developing includes coaching.

You call me a weasel. Okay- I will admit I’m wrong. Please post Ekholm’s underlying metrics and QoC the 5 years prior to landing in Edmonton. Post his same metrics his time in Edmonton. Do the same for Bouchard. If you can honestly demonstrate that one had benefitted the other more (Ekholm) I’ll say you are right. If both have had their numbers go up- then my argument of them helping each other is right. Is that fair?

Also- was Ekholm playing top pair in Nashville when he was traded here since you mentioned Bouchard was playing 17mins a night.

 

[guymez]

I never disputed that. You love making strawman arguments holy shit. Him playing 3rd pair didn’t mean he should be playing 3rd pair. He was the best on the team for zone denials and exits.

Your logic- Ekholm landed and he instantly became a number 1 dman. Instant. Or maybe, just maybe- he was always that player that just needed opportunity?

I wonder why they dont put Ekholm with Ceci and turn him into another Bouchard. After that- put him with VD. You’d have 3 Bouchard’s!! You know- because it’s Ekholm that develops defencemen

Wrong.
Never said that. Never insinuated that.
More bullshit from you.

The fact is Bouchard was a 3rd pairing dman playing just over 17 min TOI before Eckholm got here.
That is a fact.
The quality of comp was low prior to Ekholms arrival.
Do you dispute that? Of course you dont.

Ekholm helped Bouchard grow as a dman over the past year. Taking on more and more tough minutes to the point where they are (now) the primary first pairing.
It was a process and it began with Ekholms arrival.

Seeing as you need to be told things over and over again I will repeat what I said regarding Bouchard...

IMO he was a young dman with elite offensive instincts and holes in his defensive game.

As I have been saying all along...a solid high quality vet presence in Ekholm helped Bouchard solidify and elevate his overall game.
Its truly perplexing why you find this so difficult to accept.

 

[Aerchon]

Bouchard is meeting or exceeding an extremely high draft pedigree. Anyone without bias knew Bouchard was an extremely special prospect carrying his team in junior in a way similar to what Draisaitl was doing. Both, for those who followed them, extremely likely to succeed at the NHL level.

Ekholm helping him reach his potential is of course true.

Ekholm being the primary reason for Bouchard’s development is pure bias conjecture. If anyone is even implying this, they are fooling themselves and denying reality. At best Ekholm sped up Bouchard’s development rather than created it.

Anyone denying how much Bouchard has helped Ekholm is fooling themselves.

Anyone denying how amazing Bouchard has been this year in his own right is just stupid.

For clarification. I am not directing this at anyone.

Just stating facts.

 

[VainGretzky]

There is Bouchard 3rd in scoring even though he has played fewer games than anyone behind him not on the Oilers a healthy +6 but someone thinks he needs to step up well my thoughts

 

[guymez]

Bouchard is meeting or exceeding an extremely high draft pedigree. Anyone without bias knew Bouchard was an extremely special prospect carrying his team in junior in a way similar to what Draisaitl was doing. Both, for those who followed them, extremely likely to succeed at the NHL level.

Ekholm helping him reach his potential is of course true.

Ekholm being the primary reason for Bouchard’s development is pure bias conjecture. If anyone is even implying this, they are fooling themselves and denying reality. At best Ekholm sped up Bouchard’s development rather than created it.

Anyone denying how much Bouchard has helped Ekholm is fooling themselves.

Anyone denying how amazing Bouchard has been this year in his own right is just stupid.

For clarification. I am not directing this at anyone.

Just stating facts.

Its nuanced.
Bouchard was not a finished product before Ekholm got here. That is a fact.
Bouchard played 1 full season in the NHL before Ekholm arrived. Just one so he had a lot of room to grow.
He was not a top 4 dman at that point in time. His minutes and QoC underscore that clearly.
That is a fact.

Ekholm had 10 seasons of playing experience before he got here. That is a fact too.
He was essentailly a finished product and he was/is a dman good dman.
Not a diminishing asset...lol

Ekholm clearly stated when he got here that he was comfortable mentoring young dmen and thats exactly what he was about to do with Bouchard.
It has gone beautifully as that pairing has managed to increase its workload and its usage in the last year. Now IMO they are a top NHL pairing.

So Ekholm absolutely expidited Bouchards development. There is no doubt about that.
Bouchard does however have the tools to be a top pairing defender or it wouldnt have happened with Ekholm or anybody else.

As for how much Bouchard helped Ekholms game. Defenisvely I dont see a lot of evidence to support that but offensively I would say that it true.

I say that even though Ekholm also had 4 seasons of 30+ points and one season of 44 points before he got to Edmonton.

I think that the the most important thing is that the Bouchard/Ekholm paring has a lot of chemistry so both players benfit from that. They are now at the point where they compliment each other.

The bottom line for me is that proper mentorship is very important for young players.
Ekholm has helped Bouchards development in a way that wasnt likely to happen with any other dman on this team. Not saying that Bouchard wouldnt have developed but I am most certainly saying that it likely wouldnt have happened as quickly as it has without Ekholm.

There was no other dman on this team that was as good as Ekholm or had as much experience as Ekholm.
I mean who was going to mentor Bouchard in lieu of Ekholm...Nurse...Ceci...Kulak?
No chance.

So by crediting Ekholm for mentoring Bouchard it is not taking anything away from Bouchard.
Like I said Bouchard has developed into a top pairing dman because he had the raw tools to do so.
Ekholm just helped him utilize those tools more effectively.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Couple of posters in here just have no clue. hahahaha

 

[VainGretzky]

Couple of posters in here just have no clue. hahahaha

Trolls and they should be thread banned

 

[Aerchon]

Its nuanced.
Bouchard was not a finished product before Ekholm got here. That is a fact.
Bouchard played 1 full season in the NHL before Ekholm arrived. Just one so he had a lot of room to grow.
He was not a top 4 dman at that point in time. His minutes and QoC underscore that clearly.
That is a fact.

Ekholm had 10 seasons of playing experience before he got here. That is a fact too.
He was essentailly a finished product and he was/is a dman good dman.
Not a diminishing asset...lol

Ekholm clearly stated when he got here that he was comfortable mentoring young dmen and thats exactly what he was about to do with Bouchard.
It has gone beautifully as that pairing has managed to increase its workload and its usage in the last year. Now IMO they are a top NHL pairing.

So Ekholm absolutely expidited Bouchards development. There is no doubt about that.
Bouchard does however have the tools to be a top pairing defender or it wouldnt have happened with Ekholm or anybody else.

As for how much Bouchard helped Ekholms game. Defenisvely I dont see a lot of evidence to support that but offensively I would say that it true.

I say that even though Ekholm also had 4 seasons of 30+ points and one season of 44 points before he got to Edmonton.

I think that the the most important thing is that the Bouchard/Ekholm paring has a lot of chemistry so both players benfit from that. They are now at the point where they compliment each other.

The bottom line for me is that proper mentorship is very important for young players.
Ekholm has helped Bouchards development in a way that wasnt likely to happen with any other dman on this team. Not saying that Bouchard wouldnt have developed but I am most certainly saying that it likely wouldnt have happened as quickly as it has without Ekholm.

There was no other dman on this team that was as good as Ekholm or had as much experience as Ekholm.
I mean who was going to mentor Bouchard in lieu of Ekholm...Nurse...Ceci...Kulak?
No chance.

So by crediting Ekholm for mentoring Bouchard it is not taking anything away from Bouchard.
Like I said Bouchard has developed into a top pairing dman because he had the raw tools to do so.
Ekholm just helped him utilize those tools more effectively.

Didn't read this too closely but it seemed less bat crazy than some posts on here.

Bouchard is f***ing awesome and Ekholm was amazing as well. Another night where Bouchard was as good or better though.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Bouchard blocks a massive shot in that game, then goes down and allows Pickard to see the high shot on another. Nurse has another one go off him and screen cuz he doesn't comit to stepping up or go low.

But ya, Bouchard has no IQ according to 3 posters last series

 

[oXo Cube]

I'm just gonna say it.

This guys haters are flat out stupid. Just no idea what they are watching at all.

 

[Macheteops]

He's been amazing. I honestly didn't think I'd see this level of play from him. The offence was always on display but I didn't think he had the defensive awareness or hustle to be much more then a PP specialist that was a liability at even strength

The unfortunate part here is that the Oilers are going to have to pay this guy

 

[oobga]

Bouch needs to step up or we won't win games!

This is very literally true for our 2 wins in this series



Used to think Carlson was a good comparison for the Bouch. That was a way to excuse his defensive play. But he already plays better defense than Carlson ever has.

 

[guymez]

Didn't read this too closely but it seemed less bat crazy than some posts on here.

Bouchard is f***ing awesome and Ekholm was amazing as well. Another night where Bouchard was as good or better though.

So a post that you really didnt read too closely is less bat shit crazy.
Too funny.

 

[Porkleaker]

Bouch has developed so well, we're lucky to have him.

 

[Fishy McScales]

I'm just gonna say it.

This guys haters are flat out stupid. Just no idea what they are watching at all.

At this point they're mostly coping Cuck fans.

 

[Fourier]

I watched way too much of this guy in Junior. When the Knights played the Rangers it really seemed that Bouchard never left the ice. The offensive skills were obvious, but it is fantastic to see how much he has progressed as a defenseman.

But oh yah...Quinn Hughes drives the play and Bouchard just happens to be on the ice when good things happen. A LOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[joestevens29]

He's been amazing. I honestly didn't think I'd see this level of play from him. The offence was always on display but I didn't think he had the defensive awareness or hustle to be much more then a PP specialist that was a liability at even strength

The unfortunate part here is that the Oilers are going to have to pay this guy

Playing with Ekholm has been great for him.

First off it allows the guy to make some mistakes and have someone back there to cover for him. Instead of the alternative that we saw before where he'd kind of get down on himself and fall apart.

And then there is just the whole being a guy's partner that rubs off on you. These guys are consistently talking to each other and sooner or later you start to pick up on those little things.

We also need to realize this really is only his third full year in the NHL and really this team hasn't played a structured defense until Coffey came around.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

@foshizzle

What was the quality of competition for Bouchard prior to Ekholms arrival?
Take a guess.

Ekholm as a mentor....

Oilers Deal For Ekholm Puts Pressure On Bouchard To Step Up - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Oilers' Ekholm embracing mentorship role with Bouchard





Jekyll and Hyde- What should Edmonton do with Evan Bouchard?

Interesting. So many people just got Bouchard wrong...except for you.

Let me be clear here.
I am not suggesting (nor have I said) that Bouchard was garbage before Ekholm got here.

IMO he was a young dman with elite offensive instincts and holes in his defensive game.

As I have been saying all along...a solid high quality vet presence in Ekholm helped Bouchard solidify and elevate his overall game.
Its truly perplexing why you find this so difficult to accept.

I wonder if the 3rd pairing minutes had anything to do with the RHD they traded for ekholm being above him on the depth chart?

 

[bobbythebrain]

Sooo. For years we've pined for a #1 dman. I'd say he's hit that status at this point. Playing as good as any dman in the playoffs. After last night, I'd say he passed Heiskanen as far as defensive MVP

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Sooo. For years we've pined for a #1 dman. I'd say he's hit that status at this point. Playing as good as any dman in the playoffs. After last night, I'd say he passed Heiskanen as far as defensive MVP

No question, best defenseman in the playoffs and battling Draisaitl for best player imo

 

[guymez]

I wonder if the 3rd pairing minutes had anything to do with the RHD they traded for ekholm being above him on the depth chart?

It did on the PP. Bouchard got Barries minutes on the PP.
Barrie was prinarily paired with Nurse at 5x5.
When they treid Boucahard and Nurse it was a disaster.

Why is the fact that Bouchard was not a top 4 dman before Ekholm got here such a difficult reality to accept?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

It did on the PP. Bouchard got Barries minutes on the PP.
Barrie was prinarily paired with Nurse at 5x5.
When they treid Boucahard and Nurse it was a disaster.

Why is the fact that Bouchard was not a top 4 dman before Ekholm got here such a difficult reality to accept?

He was top 4 caliber offensively but he was still finding his game defensively. That said I personally don't want to separate him and Ekholm because that is as dominant of a pairing as I recall seeing in my time as an Oilers fan. As it is right now, Bouchard is playing at an extremely high level and I'm not interested in breaking this pairing up to see if Bouchard could drag Nurse's corpse around or Ekholm could drag Ceci's corpse around.