ESPN Top 25 NHL Players of the 21st Century

[The Panther]

My conviction is that Pronger was the most valuable playoff player in this century. Tilted the ice moreso than anybody else.

Interesting.

I'm not sure I agree, but it's certainly food for thought.

At evens, from 2001 playoffs to 2010 playoffs, Pronger went +47 in 121 playoff games. In comparable numbers of games, Rafalski was +38 and Lidstrom +32. Pronger, in fact, had the highest 'plus' of any NHLer over that span.

Pronger was also 11th in ES scoring over that span, though one point behind Rafalski among D-men. But his ES point production was higher than Niedermayer or Lidstrom in this period, and he had a higher plus/minus.

So, the stats certainly look impressive, and anyone who watched Pronger in his prime during a Cup run knows how strong he was. The only caveat is that his stats here don't really look any different from Brian Rafalski's, a non-Hall of Famer.

Would Connor McDavid not (by this point) trump Pronger for "tilting the ice", though?

Since McDavid's first playoff 8 seasons ago, he has more playoff points than any NHLer except Kucherov, and he's only 8 points behind him in 26 fewer games.

Over the past five years, McDavid has scored at a 145-points-per-82GP pace in the playoffs. Nobody else is even close to that.

(McDavid also has the best plus/minus the past three seasons, despite not winning a Cup.)

 

[overpass]

At evens, from 2001 playoffs to 2010 playoffs, Pronger went +47 in 121 playoff games. In comparable numbers of games, Rafalski was +38 and Lidstrom +32. Pronger, in fact, had the highest 'plus' of any NHLer over that span.

Pronger was also 11th in ES scoring over that span, though one point behind Rafalski among D-men. But his ES point production was higher than Niedermayer or Lidstrom in this period, and he had a higher plus/minus.

So, the stats certainly look impressive, and anyone who watched Pronger in his prime during a Cup run knows how strong he was. The only caveat is that his stats here don't really look any different from Brian Rafalski's, a non-Hall of Famer.

The obvious difference between Pronger and Rafalski is that Rafalski was an elite #2 who played most of his playoff games on a pairing with all time great defenders, first Scott Stevens and then Nicklas Lidstrom. Pronger was an elite #1 who usually played with #4 type partners like Alexei Gusarov, Jeff Finley, Jason Smith, and Sean O'Donnell. Two different roles, and Pronger's was rarer and more valuable.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Seems that Draisaitl is being a bit overlooked here.

Has huge numbers that are even better in the playoffs while playing mainly for really crappy teams.

I would have to have him in the top 10.

 

[VanIslander]

Seems that Draisaitl is being a bit overlooked here.

Has huge numbers that are even better in the playoffs while playing mainly for really crappy teams.

I would have to have him in the top 10.

Where were you in the ATD 2024 playoffs?

Draisaitl was our 4th line center.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Where were you in the ATD 2024 playoffs?

Draisaitl was our 4th line center.

Not involved.

 

[blundluntman]

I don't really get what ESPN is going for here. Making a list that's terrible for engagement makes sense, but I get the feeling they actually put a lot of thought into this and wanted it to be taken seriously.

The three biggest headscratchers are Stamkos at 12, Kucherov 11 spots behind Mackinnon, and no Toews (they have Bergeron, Datsyuk and Kopitar after all).

 

[daver]

Seems that Draisaitl is being a bit overlooked here.

Has huge numbers that are even better in the playoffs while playing mainly for really crappy teams.

I would have to have him in the top 10.

There is no other important information to add here to perhaps put his numbers into context?

I think he is rated fine as is. He, along with Mac, Matthews and Kucherov, are in the 2nd tier of forwards after Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid, and Malkin. All of them could potentially surpass Malkin with healthier careers.

 

[HFpapi]

I'm confident I could make a separate top 25 list with only the players who didn't make this list and still not feel like Fleury should be above any of them. I think I could name 100 before I land on Fleury.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I'm listening...

 

[WarriorofTime]

I don't know how appreciated/unappreciated goaltender longevity is, but Fleury has a comfortable lead on 21st century goaltender wins (a historic goalie longevity benchmark) and won't be passed any time soon. That's never gonna be... not valued.

 

[VanIslander]

Draisaitl was drafted 306th, between Brian Propp and Esa Tikkanen, in the 2024 All-Time Draft.

(My co-GM & I nabbed him because we believed there couldn't be 300 better players ever than him. 200, yeah. But he wasn't 300+. We got the receipts.)

 

[JackSlater]

I'm confident I could make a separate top 25 list with only the players who didn't make this list and still not feel like Fleury should be above any of them. I think I could name 100 before I land on Fleury.

I would think so. He's generally a league average goaltender, who also happens to be prone to erratic play. He's just one of those guys that media members tend to love, though the guys like Niedermayer or Toews were much better players at least.

 

[Hippasus]

I don't know how appreciated/unappreciated goaltender longevity is, but Fleury has a comfortable lead on 21st century goaltender wins (a historic goalie longevity benchmark) and won't be passed any time soon. That's never gonna be... not valued.

There is a difference in accruing a win when there is an overtime victory since 2015-16. That boosts Fleury's numbers somewhat. Still, I think you're right that what makes Fleury stand out is longevity, wins, and perhaps intangibles.

 

[The Panther]

Seems that Draisaitl is being a bit overlooked here.

Has huge numbers that are even better in the playoffs while playing mainly for really crappy teams.

Nowadays, no "really crappy" teams make the playoffs.

Draisaitl's Edmonton playoff clubs:
2017 - 4th west (2nd division)
2020 - 5th west (2nd division)
2021 - 5th "west" (2nd division)
2022 - 5th west (2nd division)
2023 - 3rd west (2nd division)
2024 - 5th west (2nd division)

Over the past 5 seasons, the Oilers have the third-most regulation wins in the League (and the third-most goals scored).

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Nowadays, no "really crappy" teams make the playoffs.

Draisaitl's Edmonton playoff clubs:
2017 - 4th west (2nd division)
2020 - 5th west (2nd division)
2021 - 5th "west" (2nd division)
2022 - 5th west (2nd division)
2023 - 3rd west (2nd division)
2024 - 5th west (2nd division)

Over the past 5 seasons, the Oilers have the third-most regulation wins in the League (and the third-most goals scored).

Yes, I was thinking really crappy outside of McDavid and Draisaitl but failed to state that. Still, that was overstating it.

Clearly they were a very good team the last two seasons. But not so much pre-Woodcroft.

Remember, too, that Draisaitl has been in the league for 10 seasons now. 6 different coaches and God only knows how many (bad) goalies.

 

[Neutrinos]

Do the playoffs not count? Patrick Kane is too high but I completely disagree that they are on par.

No, not when one of them spent their prime playing with future Hall of Famers while the other rarely had so much as a fellow all-star on his roster

 

[Crow]

No, not when one of them spent their prime playing with future Hall of Famers while the other rarely had so much as a fellow all-star on his roster

That’s really reasonable. Patrick Kane definitely got carried in his playoff career by handzus.

 

[Neutrinos]

Luongo is 7th all-time in GSAA with 270

Fleury sits 50th all-time with 67, while Quick is 94th all-time with 14