Erik Karlsson vs Drew Doughty (All time)

[BowDownToVasilevskiy]

Looking at their careers as a whole right now, who is the better player all time?

 

[Addison Rae]

Karlsson easy

 

[bobbyking]

Karlsson had a 82 point top 5 scoring finish(very low gpg)which is bananas and yes hes probably one of the worst defenders the game has ever seen but it's still far more impressive then that freebie underserved Norris doughty got. hes probably going to the hall one day but he did not deserve that norris, he deserved to have his teeth fixed more then anything

 

[amnesiac]

its close, but give me EK

both were elite in their prime, but I feel DD was a little more blessed playing for the Kings and their mini dynasty

if they switched teams EK would have 2 Cups and DD none

 

[rent free]

Karlsson had a 90 point top 5 scoring finish which is bananas and yes hes probably one of the worst defenders the game has ever seen but it's still far more impressive then that freebie underserved Norris doughty got. hes probably going to the hall one day but he did not deserve that norris, he deserved to have his teeth fixed more then anything

karlsson's never scored 90 points in a season. iirc correctly it hasn't been done since the 90's

 

[BowDownToVasilevskiy]

Karlsson had a 90 point top 5 scoring finish which is bananas and yes hes probably one of the worst defenders the game has ever seen but it's still far more impressive then that freebie underserved Norris doughty got. hes probably going to the hall one day but he did not deserve that norris, he deserved to have his teeth fixed more then anything

karlsson's never scored 90 points in a season. iirc correctly it hasn't been done since the 90's

Yeah, Karlsson's career high for points is 82.

 

[amnesiac]

karlsson's never scored 90 points in a season. iirc correctly it hasn't been done since the 90's

yep, Ray Bourque 91 pts 72GP 1993-94

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Karlsson definitely has had the higher peak, and that was for a while. Both are on the decline now.

 

[aufheben]

The only time this has ever been Doughty is when Karlsson was still on Frolunda.

 

[wetcoast]

People forget that Doughty was a pretty good defender right away in the NHL it took Karlsson some time and at first its was a struggle.

Sure Karlsson looks more impressive on paper with the counting stats but everything put together it's Doughty for me.

For years we heard from EK fans we would all see what happens if EK actually played on an NHL team instead of, in their words, an AHL one and we all saw how great that turned out.

 

[Voight]

People forget that Doughty was a pretty good defender right away in the NHL it took Karlsson some time and at first its was a struggle.

Sure Karlsson looks more impressive on paper with the counting stats but everything put together it's Doughty for me.

For years we heard from EK fans we would all see what happens if EK actually played on an NHL team instead of, in their words, an AHL one and we all saw how great that turned out.

Doughty making the Olympic Team as a sophomore was notable too. & he wasn't some Laettner-esque add that rode the bench and didn't do anything. Also nominated for the Norris that year, not many players in recent history have been in Norris contention their sophomore year.

Doughty was also a huge part of the Kings 2012-2014 run & was a Smythe contender in 2014.

 

[thehangover]

People forget that Doughty was a pretty good defender right away in the NHL it took Karlsson some time and at first its was a struggle.

Sure Karlsson looks more impressive on paper with the counting stats but everything put together it's Doughty for me.

For years we heard from EK fans we would all see what happens if EK actually played on an NHL team instead of, in their words, an AHL one and we all saw how great that turned out.

It was not the Karlsson from 4 years ago that was traded.

 

[thehangover]

I remember a long time ago when the fantasy part of NHL.com would let you get statistics on point shares between teammates - Like how many points a specific player shared with each teammate. I looked into how the distrubution was for a few of the top defenders at the time. It must have been a season in which Letang and Crosby were prolific because I remember that they shared a substantial amount of Letangs points. The case with Karlsson was that they were more evenly distrubuted throughout the team. Which at the time, made me impressed, and let me to ask the question whether Karlsson had an, compared with other top defenders, outstanding ability to get the most out of his teammates.

I darely miss that part of the old fantasy website, and have not been able to find one with similar statistics since.

 

[wetcoast]

It was not the Karlsson from 4 years ago that was traded.

I'm not sure what you are saying by this, that he has regressed that much since the age of 26?

He became a Shark at age 28 when most Dmen are in their prime.

He also was a UFA so he decided to remain with the Sharks.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's been a while since we've done one of these eh.

Erik Karlsson has been a lightning rod since he burst on the scene for both great praise and harsh criticism.

Doughty has been mostly underrated his whole career except that maybe 4 year window where he was comparatively overcompensated for missing praise the rest of the time.

I do think Drew has been nearly wholly overlooked for his all around impact, even in this thread it only took 3 posts for the usual folks to start bashing him. Even the suggestions that he was a passenger for his championship team rather than a major driving force when he was a Conn Smythe candidate in either Cup run is hilarious. Never mind his Team Canada prowess. And the idea that he's been trash for years is a hot take considering he had a legit Norris case in 2018. I mean I'm not even gonna get into the depth I used to because it feels like banging my head against a wall when people don't even WANT to see the good side since he's just raw one of the most hated players on this forum. He's had--overall--the better career so far.

 

[aufheben]

It's been a while since we've done one of these eh.

Erik Karlsson has been a lightning rod since he burst on the scene for both great praise and harsh criticism.

Doughty has been mostly underrated his whole career except that maybe 4 year window where he was comparatively overcompensated for missing praise the rest of the time.

I do think Drew has been nearly wholly overlooked for his all around impact, even in this thread it only took 3 posts for the usual folks to start bashing him. Even the suggestions that he was a passenger for his championship team rather than a major driving force when he was a Conn Smythe candidate in either Cup run is hilarious. Never mind his Team Canada prowess. And the idea that he's been trash for years is a hot take considering he had a legit Norris case in 2018. I mean I'm not even gonna get into the depth I used to because it feels like banging my head against a wall when people don't even WANT to see the good side since he's just raw one of the most hated players on this forum. He's had--overall--the better career so far.

Doughty might be underrated on HF, but elsewhere?

 

[Agent Zub]

People forget that Doughty was a pretty good defender right away in the NHL it took Karlsson some time and at first its was a struggle.

Sure Karlsson looks more impressive on paper with the counting stats but everything put together it's Doughty for me.

For years we heard from EK fans we would all see what happens if EK actually played on an NHL team instead of, in their words, an AHL one and we all saw how great that turned out.

yea i mean they almost made it to the finals, with the sharks and karlsson badly banged up. whats your point?

Doughty on the other hand has been a real flop as soon as the team around him started sucking. Karlsson at least made his shitty teams competive

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

People forget that Doughty was a pretty good defender right away in the NHL it took Karlsson some time and at first its was a struggle.

Sure Karlsson looks more impressive on paper with the counting stats but everything put together it's Doughty for me.

For years we heard from EK fans we would all see what happens if EK actually played on an NHL team instead of, in their words, an AHL one and we all saw how great that turned out.

In the one season that Karlsson played for a good Sharks team, he was absolutely dominant in the two thirds of the season that he played and the team made the conference finals despite him playing through major injury.

The Sharks team that Karlsson played on this year was worse than any of the Ottawa teams that he ever played for.

 

[Mighty Makar]

Call me crazy, but I’ll take the guy who actually plays D. Love him or hate him. Doughty does it all.

 

[604]

I take Doughty...of course, I also have a team signed 2010 Olympic Canada jersey in my office so that event influences me a lot.

Doughty was one of the best two-way guys of his generation.

Karlsson was very good offensively but like Brent Burns, wasn't good enough defensively and may have been a detriment during tight playoff hockey.

 

[thehangover]

I'm not sure what you are saying by this, that he has regressed that much since the age of 26?

He became a Shark at age 28 when most Dmen are in their prime.

He also was a UFA so he decided to remain with the Sharks.

I ment that It's not clear cut that he is the same player as before, for better or worse. My take is that atleast his consistency from 14/15-16/17 seem to have regressed. And he has not reached his former highs again.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

yea i mean they almost made it to the finals, with the sharks and karlsson badly banged up. whats your point?

Doughty on the other hand has been a real flop as soon as the team around him started sucking. Karlsson at least made his shitty teams competive

2018 Kings were just Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick.

And are we going to pretend the Kings pre 2012 were awesome?

You've tried to peddle this narrative before and it's garbage. He was a norris finalist his Sophomore year on a mediocre team, then on great Kings teams, then a mostly bad 2018 Kings team. It doesn't matter about the situation, he's not a passenger. Part of the reason last year's Kings were so bad was because Doughty wasn't good (to his standards anyway, he was still a good #1).

 

[wetcoast]

I remember a long time ago when the fantasy part of NHL.com would let you get statistics on point shares between teammates - Like how many points a specific player shared with each teammate. I looked into how the distrubution was for a few of the dop defenders at the time. It must have been a season in which Letang and Crosby were prolific because I remember that they shared a substantial amount of Letangs points. The case with Karlsson was that they were more evenly distrubuted throughout the team. Which at the time, made me impressed, and let me to ask the question whether Karlsson had an, compared with other top defenders, outstanding ability to get the most out of his teammates.

I darely miss that part of the old fantasy website, and have not been able to find one with similar statistics since.

I think in part it was due to 2 factors.

1) Karlsson had the green light all of the time and the offense, for better or worse ran through him in Ottawa

2) He had a much higher TOI at ES and PP combined than most other Dmen, thus had a unique situation to capitalize on his impressive skillset.

For example in his peak season he sent 22:59 MPG at ES and 4:38 on the PP and only 1:20 on the PK.

Doughty is his peak season spent 22:00 at ES 3:03 on the PP and 2:56 on the PK

 

[Agent Zub]

2018 Kings were just Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick.

And are we going to pretend the Kings pre 2012 were awesome?

You've tried to peddle this narrative before and it's garbage. He was a norris finalist his Sophomore year on a mediocre team, then on great Kings teams, then a mostly bad 2018 Kings team. It doesn't matter about the situation, he's not a passenger. Part of the reason last year's Kings were so bad was because Doughty wasn't good (to his standards anyway, he was still a good #1).

I'm just saying some of the worst LA teams Doughty had were better than some of the best Senators teams Karlsson had.

I mean Doughty had Kopitar and Jeff Carter all decade while Karlsson had Turris and Melnyk.

 

[thehangover]

I'm just saying some of the worst LA teams Doughty had were better than some of the best Senators teams Karlsson had.

I mean Doughty had Kopitar and Jeff Carter all decade while Karlsson had Turris and Melnyk.

Until he didn't.

He had Spezza earlier in his career, and It's not like everyone on Ottawa were trash. But one more elite piece would have helped them for sure.