Value of: Erik Karlsson @ 50% to Vancouver?

[elitepete]

Add like 3 firsts coming to SJ and it’s closer but none of the players you have coming to SJ have any value to us.

LMAOOOOO

That's not much different than your original proposal.


That's a pretty misleading read of what is being discussed.

What if it was only 1m retention and you get a 2nd instead?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Klimovich works for me, not because I don't think he'll do well, but because we have so many wingers already.

1 million is still 5 by the end of term, and 2 being 10. That is still an investment. Bare in mind, Arizona held back a little bit of salary in the original deal, so if we retain anything, that's it for his retention later if there is any possibility of trading him later. I mean, I wouldn't be expecting Toronto/Marleau levels of cost, but OEL at 5.25 million is pretty close to being worth the cap hit, and while still not "valuable", not someone we'd add significantly to to move on from.

Vlasic rebounding is great to hear, but he's still 35 and signed until he's...40? While I hope he keeps up the play, even without him coming our way, I think it would be hard to hope for it. Any utility we get from him in the mean time is welcome, but I still don't see the value being equal between he and OEL. What would you, on behalf of the Sharks, be willing to add to Vlasic for OEL?

Linblom/Simek+Ferraro/Labanc works as a base too, or even Ferraro+Labanc, I don't feel any of those is a bad start for OEL on our part, but I'd think there are some moving parts and some value going back to San Jose though.

The OEL talks are likely limited to the offseason only which mitigates the retention hit slightly but the point is still valid. I would understand not wanting to add significantly to move on from him but I wasn't given the impression that adding Klimovich would be viewed as significant.

Vlasic is signed until he turns 39 so yeah it's not pretty but it's tough to give a real answer on what to add given the Sharks being in a pretty clear rebuild. Offering futures to move Vlasic is counterproductive. The only spare future asset that could be perceived as valuable that the Sharks would probably be willing to part with is Ryan Merkley but my read on Vancouver's depth is that they have no real need for him. I could see them throwing a 2nd to make such a move but that may not be enough for Vancouver to pull the trigger.

On the last point, you're probably right but it's tough to nail down what that would be. Vancouver is in a position where a team like the Sharks as a rebuilding team tend to be tough trading partners because Vancouver's maybe going to retool but a lot of what the Sharks have aren't enticing either due to being overpaid or too long of a commitment and neither team probably wants to fork over futures to get anything done for good reason.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

What if it was only 1m retention and you get a 2nd instead?

So Karlsson with one mil retained for Myers, Poolman, Pearson, and a 2nd? It's better but I don't know if I'd do it. If Karlsson was to try and force his way onto Vancouver and that was the absolute best they could offer, I'd probably do it but if there's any sort of competing bid, chances are they'd offer more.

 

[Bgav]

How is this thread 6 pages lol

 

[Gecklund]

So Karlsson with one mil retained for Myers, Poolman, Pearson, and a 2nd? It's better but I don't know if I'd do it. If Karlsson was to try and force his way onto Vancouver and that was the absolute best they could offer, I'd probably do it but if there's any sort of competing bid, chances are they'd offer more.

It’s still absolute garbage. Shit if that’s what they offer EK can sit his ass at home instead of taking this insulting offer that does absolutely nothing for us.

 

[Cogburn]

The OEL talks are likely limited to the offseason only which mitigates the retention hit slightly but the point is still valid. I would understand not wanting to add significantly to move on from him but I wasn't given the impression that adding Klimovich would be viewed as significant.

Vlasic is signed until he turns 39 so yeah it's not pretty but it's tough to give a real answer on what to add given the Sharks being in a pretty clear rebuild. Offering futures to move Vlasic is counterproductive. The only spare future asset that could be perceived as valuable that the Sharks would probably be willing to part with is Ryan Merkley but my read on Vancouver's depth is that they have no real need for him. I could see them throwing a 2nd to make such a move but that may not be enough for Vancouver to pull the trigger.

On the last point, you're probably right but it's tough to nail down what that would be. Vancouver is in a position where a team like the Sharks as a rebuilding team tend to be tough trading partners because Vancouver's maybe going to retool but a lot of what the Sharks have aren't enticing either due to being overpaid or too long of a commitment and neither team probably wants to fork over futures to get anything done for good reason.

While Klimovich wouldn't be a cheap add, if it was Klimovich+OEL, slightly retained, for something trivial I don't think I'd mind. If we can drop the retention, for some combination of those shorter term cap dumps would be AOK from me too.

Merkley would be fine if the two were straight across. His skill set is a little redundant, but honestly our D depth is so poor on the right side that the addition of anyone that can stand up on skates is a win. If we can get a this years second, or next years, as a replacement for the second we sunk into Stillman, I don't see a lot of Canucks fans hating the idea either. Otherwise, it wouldn't necessarily have to be futures, but if a roster player holds some value that could work too.

I agree with the last thought there too, either team wanting to give up futures to shuffle deck chairs on a sinking ship is probably ideal from either management group.

How is this thread 6 pages lol

Pinkfloyd and I have filled a page with other, super likely D trade talk. As for the rest of it...eh? Morbidity?

 

[elitepete]

So Karlsson with one mil retained for Myers, Poolman, Pearson, and a 2nd? It's better but I don't know if I'd do it. If Karlsson was to try and force his way onto Vancouver and that was the absolute best they could offer, I'd probably do it but if there's any sort of competing bid, chances are they'd offer more.

Well that’s the max I’d offer because Karlssons contract will be pretty ugly in the last couple years. I helps us in the short term by giving us a near elite dman and we lose a small amount of cap in the short term.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Sharks were about to get a better offer.

 

[robertmac1994]

So not necessarily from Vancouver, but the Sharks are starting to receive calls on Erik Karlsson ahead of the trade deadline. Something that wasn't true based on Grier's comments before recent weeks...

Rumours: San Jose Sharks Making Calls to Trade Erik Karlsson

The San Jose Sharks are listening to calls from other teams about potential trades for one of their best defenceman.

lastwordonsports.com

 

[im gangster]

Wtf. No chance we add that contact

Aquilini

 

[Quinntessential]

Your offer is something the Sharks simply couldn't do until the offseason. You're asking the Sharks to add 5 mil to their cap payroll with this deal and they're at 50 contracts which means they have to do player for player or be the ones moving out more players than they're taking in. In terms of value, Boeser or Garland might return us a 2nd round pick at this stage. Myers might return a 2nd round pick as well. OEL is not even worth discussing with a full no-move and likely no interest in going to San Jose. It's a red flag that after a pretty solid rookie campaign that Podkolzin's been kept in the minors and is only doing okay there. A lottery protected 1st round pick in most drafts is only so valuable but it's also not something I suspect would be terribly difficult to acquire elsewhere for Karlsson.

So a lotto protected 1st, a couple of 2nd round picks, and a Podkolzin type prospect just isn't that interesting to me. Sharks need blue line prospects and center prospects first and foremost. They have a lot of winger prospects and it's the easiest position to fill when needed. And all that just to eat 50% and add 5 mil or more to the cap simply isn't that enticing and I don't know why you think it is. That kind of offer is what you should expect to trade for Karlsson at his full rate. Not 50%.


This is a bad offer that the Sharks get almost nothing out of.

Fact is, No one will take Karlsson without some retention unless the Sharks eat another big contract, guaranteed. Look around the league, how many teams can add that contract for the next 4 years without disrupting their core or depleting their depth? Fans who think there will be a hot bidding war will be quite mistaken. Sharks can try to eat as little salary as possible to get rid of him but then they’ll have to accept a lesser return as the trade off. He still has negative value because of how difficult it is to move his contract.

Almost every single proposal by a Sharks fan in this thread has included massive cap relief for SJ AND high value assets which is quite laughable. To make matters worse, the other Sharks fans in this thread still balk at that level of highway robbery. Oh well, prepare to be disappointed if he’s ever traded.

 

[Honest M]

Canucks problems would not be solved and they already have Hughes and have bet high on him in the role that EK would fit.


Detroit or Minnesota would be a better fit for EK

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Fact is, No one will take Karlsson without some retention unless the Sharks eat another big contract, guaranteed. Look around the league, how many teams can add that contract for the next 4 years without disrupting their core or depleting their depth? Fans who think there will be a hot bidding war will be quite mistaken. Sharks can try to eat as little salary as possible to get rid of him but then they’ll have to accept a lesser return as the trade off. He still has negative value because of how difficult it is to move his contract.

Almost every single proposal by a Sharks fan in this thread has included massive cap relief for SJ AND high value assets which is quite laughable. To make matters worse, the other Sharks fans in this thread still balk at that level of highway robbery. Oh well, prepare to be disappointed if he’s ever traded.

Well, there's a difference between some retention and 50%. Your proposal was based on 50% and taking on Boeser/Garland and Myers. 50% Karlsson is 5.75 mil. Garland and Myers is 10.95 mil. No team eats that much cap without getting something out of it and no just getting rid of Karlsson constitutes getting paid for it. Now if you want to talk about Garland and Myers for Karlsson at the reported 18% retention then we can make some progress on this discussion but your particular idea of thinking you can dump almost twice as much cap, get an elite talent like Karlsson, and not pony up a player or prospect that is going to be meaningful to their future (yes Podkolzin and a lotto protected 1st are likely not meaningful to their future) is not exactly enticing.

The Burns trade is likely a comparable for what the Sharks will look to execute if a Karlsson trade materializes. They will retain, maybe heavily, get a body back, an okay prospect, and an okay pick. They will save significantly on the cap if that's what is out there. But if you expect the Sharks to eat a big contract as part of it, you have to pay value to get Karlsson. If you don't like that, find something else that has value to a rebuilding team and give it a shot. It takes two to make a deal and you have to make an appealing case to the team you want the deal from rather than talking down to them because you didn't like what you heard in response.

 

[norrisnick]

Canucks problems would not be solved and they already have Hughes and have bet high on him in the role that EK would fit.


Detroit or Minnesota would be a better fit for EK

Que?

 

[Honest M]

Que?

Playoff teams.. ?? with room/need for a puck moving D

 

[norrisnick]

Playoff teams.. ?? with room/need for a puck moving D

I repeat myself.

Que?

 

[inthe6ix]

He's owed 11.5M AAV over the next 4 years with a NMC - love the numbers this year, but he's going no where.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

What would teams offer if he was retained 2M to 9.5 for the next 4 years?

Looking at his numbers he has been good in San Jose, and hasn't just been racking up numbers on the PP. On a good team he will help your team at 5 on 5.

 

[Honest M]

I repeat myself.

Que?

wow that was impressive, some arrogance que ?

 

[norrisnick]

wow that was impressive, some arrogance que ?

The Wings aren't a playoff team and have two young RHD puck-movers. Karlsson is not a good fit in any capacity.

 

[stewy04]

Jim B! Is that you?

 

[pnch40]

Vancouver can afford to offer a combination of:

Podkolzin
Boeser
Hoglander
Garland
Any prospect
Anyone on the farm
Draft pick(s)

Vancouver would also like to dump one of OEL or Myers and Tanner Pearson. What gets it done?

Price just went up sucka!!!

It’ll take all those players and a first