Erik Gudbranson - Good Defenseman?

[Blue Dot]

i posted this in the main board thread "is Gud = Barker"...

Gudder has also had some injuries slow him.

he's never going to be a Norris type defender, but he should settle into a very capable 2nd pairing Dman who can punish forwards, drop the gloves and stand up for guys and maybe even work that heavy shot into PP action.

his only problem, imo, was being taken so high and then having the expectations of fans.

the guy has great physical tools and i've never seen anything that questioned his work ethic. i remember an NHL where Dmen would not break into the league until they were 25 or 26 years old unless they were special.

as someone said above, he should have been working on his game in the AHL. but, he has learned on the job, taken some bumps because of it, but hopefully will be a solid NHL defender earlier than if he came up the AHL path.

not worried about him at all. Cam Barker he is not... At worse he will turn into Sheldon Brookbank :p

 

[SoupyFIN]

Too bad he can't be sent down anymore.

Because that's where he belongs really, in the AHL.

 

[flapanthersfan]

I find it hilarious how the tune is finally changing around here, considering I was getting absolutely roasted for pointing out the obvious last season

to answer the question at hand - right now, no gudbranson is not a good defensman. he's awful, in fact. his defensive awareness/positioning is the worst on the team, and his decision making is absymal.

that being said, is he a bust and is it time to give up on him? it's way too early to say that.

if you were expecting some type of superstar, then yes, he's a bust. he will never be an elite d-man. it's blatantly evident he doesn't have the two-way game for that.

i however, have never been expecting that from him since the day we drafted him. i always thought his upside was a 2nd pairing defensman at best, and that goal is still attainable if he can catch up to the speed of the NHL.

in the end, he is what he is. he's a young defensman who has some upside as a 2nd pairing defensman, but will always be looked at as a disappointment because of his draft position. i've been saying it for years, but you just should not take players like gudbranson that high in the draft. EVER. they're easily obtained during the later parts of the first round or 2nd round. didn't we get Petrovic in the same draft? they're pretty similar prospects. in fact, Petrovic is the one with higher upside in my eyes.

 

[SoupyFIN]

I find it hilarious how the tune is finally changing around here, considering I was getting absolutely roasted for pointing out the obvious last season

He was recovering from an injury last season.

Now there's no excuses.

 

[flapanthersfan]

He was recovering from an injury last season.

Now there's no excuses.

that was an excuse made by people around here, they were assuming his play was terrible because of his shoulder injury.

his play was terrible because he's a terrible player right now.

people keep trying to make excuses for our young guys not playing well because it's easier to accept than the possibility that they may just not be very good. it happened last year with gudbranson, and now people are making excuses for Markstrom.

"Sometimes it's easier to pretend that things are okay, rather than face a difficult truth. Playing pretend, make believe, it might be the one thing we never outgrow"

 

[PBPantherfan]

Too bad he can't be sent down anymore.

Because that's where he belongs really, in the AHL.

Why not he hasn't played 160 games yet.

 

[Panteras]

I really don't know what's going to happen to this franchise if another high 1st round pick=bust ...it's just a chronic issue at this point beyond the actual players...how can a franchise fk up so much for so long? either we've had the worst scouts ever or we simply cannot properly develop players, or of course the logical answer, both

 

[CanadianPantherFan]

I've had about enough of him. He is not even separating guys from the puck that often. Deal him or Kulikov for guys who can score/hit the net. Guds is Ottawa boy, maybe pick up some parts from them tonight.

 

[PanthersHockey1]

I have no problem with people bashing guds, as long as people realize that kulikov is not much better. Kuli is not a threat offensively, turnovers the puck as much as guds, and unlike guds has no physical aspect to his game.

That being said I have reiterated one of the two should be traded for offense and it appears the NHL overvalues kulikov so he should be the one traded IMHO.

 

[CHGoalie27]

Confidence and following through with his decisions is his problem IMO, he is great and would be great if/when he plays without second guessing himself.

 

[CanadianPantherFan]

NO ONE here wanted to trade one of our young Dmen for Stastny type, then follow that up by drafting Seth Jones. People scoffed at that proposal, now it seems everyone wants to do it now. Too late. Oh BTW, I'm happy with Barkov...just saying that might have been a better option short AND long term.

 

[CHGoalie27]

Confidence and following through with his decisions is his problem IMO, he is great and would be great if/when he plays without second guessing himself.

Kuli too.

It's why I want them both together.

 

[King Panther]

i wonder if the coaching change will help him

 

[ProjectPanthers]

This is my issue with Gudbranson in terms of his development.....

I think we can all agree that defenseman, particularly of the defensive d-man variety, take longer to develop and find their game than most positions. One thing that Erik has never has was a fellow big-man, defensive d-man type to help ease him into the NHL. Someone to learn from.

We can clearly see the influence a great NHL defenseman has on a kid coming into the league with what is happening in Nashville with Weber and Jones. I'm not saying Jones wouldn't be great somewhere else, but you just know Weber is making him a better player every single day.

Erik has never had that. Erik's career has been spent Brian Campbell as the only reliable, NHL-calibur veteran defenseman to learn from throughout his entire NHL career. Soupy is almost the exact polar-opposite of the type of player Guds is, so what can he really learn from him, a defenseman who's game is completely different than the one Guds should be excelling at?

This is why I stress OVER AND OVER that this off-season signing a guy like Brooks Orpik will do wonders not only for our defense but for Guds' development. Right now he's learning from Kulikov and Weaver, who are alright I guess (Weaver is a beast at time) but neither of those guys are the right person to lead this kid.

The way I look at it is yes, he's been pretty awful for most of his career up to now, but he shows those glimpses of what can be. I really feel like he's just missing the right voice to get into his head.

 

[ProjectPanthers]

I really don't know what's going to happen to this franchise if another high 1st round pick=bust ...it's just a chronic issue at this point beyond the actual players...how can a franchise fk up so much for so long? either we've had the worst scouts ever or we simply cannot properly develop players, or of course the logical answer, both

This x1000. We've never developed young guys properly and when in 2011-12 it seemed like we were finally doing it right by not rushing anyone, instead we've fallen back into the trend of the mid 00's where we rushed everyone and it knocked everyone back a few pegs from the expectations they had when they were drafted.

I mean just look at Huberdeau. He's just awful this year. Awful. He ****en tore up juniors and looked incredible at times last season. This season he looks like just another Panther.

 

[LUUUUUIS]

This is my issue with Gudbranson in terms of his development.....

I think we can all agree that defenseman, particularly of the defensive d-man variety, take longer to develop and find their game than most positions. One thing that Erik has never has was a fellow big-man, defensive d-man type to help ease him into the NHL. Someone to learn from.

We can clearly see the influence a great NHL defenseman has on a kid coming into the league with what is happening in Nashville with Weber and Jones. I'm not saying Jones wouldn't be great somewhere else, but you just know Weber is making him a better player every single day.

Erik has never had that. Erik's career has been spent Brian Campbell as the only reliable, NHL-calibur veteran defenseman to learn from throughout his entire NHL career. Soupy is almost the exact polar-opposite of the type of player Guds is, so what can he really learn from him, a defenseman who's game is completely different than the one Guds should be excelling at?

This is why I stress OVER AND OVER that this off-season signing a guy like Brooks Orpik will do wonders not only for our defense but for Guds' development. Right now he's learning from Kulikov and Weaver, who are alright I guess (Weaver is a beast at time) but neither of those guys are the right person to lead this kid.

The way I look at it is yes, he's been pretty awful for most of his career up to now, but he shows those glimpses of what can be. I really feel like he's just missing the right voice to get into his head.

I think Panthers were hoping Jovo would be that for Guddy.

This x1000. We've never developed young guys properly and when in 2011-12 it seemed like we were finally doing it right by not rushing anyone, instead we've fallen back into the trend of the mid 00's where we rushed everyone and it knocked everyone back a few pegs from the expectations they had when they were drafted.

I mean just look at Huberdeau. He's just awful this year. Awful. He ****en tore up juniors and looked incredible at times last season. This season he looks like just another Panther.

Huberdeau that spent another year in Juniors after being drafted and won a Calder his first year in the NHL and had hip surgery over the summer?

 

[ProjectPanthers]

I think Panthers were hoping Jovo would be that for Guddy.

Huberdeau that spent another year in Juniors after being drafted and won a Calder his first year in the NHL and had hip surgery over the summer?

I agree with you about Jovo, but his injuries have just hurt him completely and he's not there to help Guds on the regular. Time to find someone new to point him in the right direction.

In regards to Hubs, I know I may sound harsh, and he's obviously not going to play like this for the rest of his career, but I need to see some more progression from guys.

It's kinda getting annoying hearing every second player struggling and hearing "surgery" as an excuse. I'm pretty sure our team isn't the only one that has players who have off-season surgeries.

 

[mbitonti]

It seems the biggest issue surrounding Gudbranson is his draft position. He should not have been taken even close to number 3. He's a first round pick for sure, but number 3 just completely changed everybody's perceptions of what he should be. If he was taken in the 20-25 range we would not be having this discussion at all.

I don't think his development has been awful, I think he's just got some perception that he's going to be our version of Shea Weber. Honestly, he probably should have spent a year in the AHL, but too late for that. His first season he wasn't that good, but he exploded in the playoffs-I'll take that for a 19 yr old defenseman. Last season he had surgery, lacked a proper training camp, and played on a garbage team. He hasn't played great this season, but I do think he has made numerous headway. He still makes mistakes in coverage and focuses too much on hitting at times, but I think hes gotten much more comfortable in passing and shooting.

He's not going to be Shea Weber or PK Subban. He doesn't have their offense or overall skill. But I think he could easily become slightly more physical Brent Seabrook in a few years. He can block shots, lay out the big hits, and he's getting much better at moving the puck. I know he's had a slowed development, but I think last year's injury really set him back a bit. Plus, as mentioned above he never had a great defenseman to play with. Campbell is the closest thing to an elite defenseman we have and he's all offense, so that won't help. Guds has played with Weaver, who is a solid shut-down guy, but lets be honest Weaver is a bottom pairing guy on most teams. He played with Jovo some, but Jovo is getting to be washed up.

I think that this team really needs to seek out an elite defenseman this season via trades. If we could land Yandle in a trade that would send something along the lines of Steeg, Boyes, + 2nd round, I would be all for it. If we can get a solid top pairing D-man to help out our young guys (Kuli, Guds, Petro and Robak later) then I think we would see a dramatic improvement in their play. Even signing Orpik in the offseason would be a good idea too. I'm not gonna lie and say Guds hasn't disappointed me a bit, but let's face it he is 21 and playing for a horrible team. I think he has great upside and is shackled to the fact that he was taken number 3, before people like Skinner and Tarensenko. Even if he doesn't become a top or second pairing D-man, I welcome his character and grit to our locker room.

 

[LUUUUUIS]

I agree with you about Jovo, but his injuries have just hurt him completely and he's not there to help Guds on the regular. Time to find someone new to point him in the right direction.

In regards to Hubs, I know I may sound harsh, and he's obviously not going to play like this for the rest of his career, but I need to see some more progression from guys.

It's kinda getting annoying hearing every second player struggling and hearing "surgery" as an excuse. I'm pretty sure our team isn't the only one that has players who have off-season surgeries.

The amount of times that you hear something has no bearing on it's validity. I can tell you the sky is blue a million times and it'll still be true. The way that our players are being developed is different than a decade ago. Huberdeau isn't in a slump because of mismanagement of our youth. I'm sure not having a real off-season because of surgery and rehab has something to do with it. People come back from injury at different rates, and plenty of players from other teams take time to get back to form.

On Guddy, I'll agree he might have done well with another season in the AHL.

 

[MintyFresh88]

Last 5 games:

-2, -1, -2, -2, -2

Discuss. We need Mitchell back with Kulikov and Gudbranson back on the 3rd pairing.

 

[SoupyFIN]

Kuli and Guds don't mesh well together, he's had a great year apart from this small stretch.

 

[ShootIt]

Last 5 games:

-2, -1, -2, -2, -2

Discuss. We need Mitchell back with Kulikov and Gudbranson back on the 3rd pairing.

Those numbers aren't good, but don't mean that much when it comes to determining how well/bad he is playing

Out of those goals given up, was it his fault one of those goals were scored, or was it a broken defensive play/someone not back checking/other defenseman out of position etc.
Also, we have had an issue scoring goals too these past five games.

I think the Montreal game he had issues clearing the puck, which lead to Gally's second goal. Both of Gally's goals were in the paint, forget if the first one was Guds fault for not clearing the paint.

The next four have all been losses, with the Panthers getting blown out in 3 of them.
The Ottawa game had no one playing defensive hockey, forwards included, allowing easy entrance into the zone for the Senators. Pittsburgh game had the same type of tone as the OTT game, where we folded in the 3rd.

Not trying to defend Gudbranson to the death, his play has been subpar, but it's in line with the rest of the team lately.

 

[FLpanthers16]

Those numbers aren't good, but don't mean that much when it comes to determining how well/bad he is playing

Out of those goals given up, was it his fault one of those goals were scored, or was it a broken defensive play/someone not back checking/other defenseman out of position etc.
Also, we have had an issue scoring goals too these past five games.

I think the Montreal game he had issues clearing the puck, which lead to Gally's second goal. Both of Gally's goals were in the paint, forget if the first one was Guds fault for not clearing the paint.

The next four have all been losses, with the Panthers getting blown out in 3 of them.
The Ottawa game had no one playing defensive hockey, forwards included, allowing easy entrance into the zone for the Senators. Pittsburgh game had the same type of tone as the OTT game, where we folded in the 3rd.

Not trying to defend Gudbranson to the death, his play has been subpar, but it's in line with the rest of the team lately.

Yeah but i feel like Kuli really needs Mitchell to excell at his best.

He plays a much more calm game with Willy by his side.

 

[ShootIt]

Yeah but i feel like Kuli really needs Mitchell to excell at his best.

He plays a much more calm game with Willy by his side.

That I agree with.

Just don't think it means that Gudbranson can't be a 2nd pairing defenseman. Too many variables to look at other than +/- to determine how good a single player is doing. Especially when the team has regressed in that small sample of games.

 

[spacemanatee]

hahaha i thought this was a new thread and thought everyone needed to realx a bit