Erie Otters 2024 - 25 Season Thread, Part I

[LDN]

this is legal talk for he's been fired. bring in the new head coach. what is that, 4 coaches in 4 years?

Is it though? You gotta wonder what the internal policies are

 

[ohloutsider]

Is it though? You gotta wonder what the internal policies are

They can be one in the same thing. Failure to comply with internal policies can get you fired.

 

[Kingpin794]

Is it though? You gotta wonder what the internal policies are

Could be everything from abuse of players to conduct unbecoming of the organization. The statement was very open ended.

 

[Mata]

My own personal feelings about this are a rivalry between our GM, Dave Brown, and our head coach, Stan Butler.

Stan came into Erie and said he wanted to restore winning to the org and would only be the HC for 2 - 3 years.

Our owner passes away, now Dave Brown assumes total control of the team (we think), who is Dave's biggest threat, the guy he brought in to turn the program around.

There has been one constant during the entire rebuild that started after our championship run, our GM, Dave Brown. They have brought in numerous coaches, they have made many trades (most of which were not beneficial to us in the end) and one thing remains...

A couple weeks ago it appeared there was some internal issues with the team that could point to larger issues. It appears everything might be coming to the forefront now starting with this announcement.

 

[frontsfan67]

Mike Babcock situation???

Pretty bad when the team puts out a post about it

 

[NOA]

Here's a thought, however, same kinda mentality but different.

What if JW planned to keep SB after the season and move him into DB's position? Dave knew it, felt threatened by it, and cuts SB just because he knew this guy put his future on the ropes.

Remember, the end goal with SB was to merely get us to the playoffs and then maybe a deeper run. He accomplished what he set out to do to this point so he hasn't really failed with his intentions.

Who has failed, the constant since this all started DB. There was a reason he got almost no "welcome" at the McDavid night. I'm not saying they will get rid of him, but I could totally see him cutting SB to save his own job, again.

The question you posed is the biggest of them all, did JW's passing reset the clock again for DB?

I don’t buy these long lasting rumors that SB was ever an option to be a GM or replace DB. Again, SB was hired because he’s buddies with DB. We also know JWs main OHL connections start / end with Erie when he bought the team. He only knew SB through DB… So I find it crazy unlikely DB would hire someone to eventually replace him or that JW would even conspire to do that behind the back of his close friend DB. It doesn’t make any sense. Not to mention the age of SB + his overall lack of success that make him a low level candidate to be a replacement. If you fire DB, why would you promote someone with SBs track record? That also doesn’t add up..

 

[NOA]

My own personal feelings about this are a rivalry between our GM, Dave Brown, and our head coach, Stan Butler.

Stan came into Erie and said he wanted to restore winning to the org and would only be the HC for 2 - 3 years.

Our owner passes away, now Dave Brown assumes total control of the team (we think), who is Dave's biggest threat, the guy he brought in to turn the program around.

There has been one constant during the entire rebuild that started after our championship run, our GM, Dave Brown. They have brought in numerous coaches, they have made many trades (most of which were not beneficial to us in the end) and one thing remains...

A couple weeks ago it appeared there was some internal issues with the team that could point to larger issues. It appears everything might be coming to the forefront now starting with this announcement.

How is SB a threat to DB??
Especially now with Jim passing. If the family takes control and wants to move on from DB, why the hell would they promote or hire SB to take over when his performance as a coach is below expectations?

The way Erie announced this seems more than just a standard fired for performance issue but Im not going to speculate. However what I can say is SB has been a fail and DB moving on reflects poorly on him and his coaching decisions. So, in theory, he should want to ride it out with SB but if something behind the scenes happened, his hands are possibly tied here. Either way, this doesn’t help DB at all imo. It makes him look bad and if the org has REAL leadership at the top (hard to know now with Jim gone…) then they should be moving on from DB asap

What a mess. I loved Jim as an owner and thankful he kept the team in Erie. But his decision to ride with DB all these years was way too personal than business. That’s why not everyone is cut out to be the final decision maker. I get the sense DB was only here because JW got along with him too well to ever point the finger at him.. DB has been scapegoating the coaches for years but bottom line it all comes back to him. He’s now made 3 bad coaching decisions in a row, has horribly mismanaged assets, and their drafting has gone to shit.

 

[Mata]

I don’t buy these long lasting rumors that SB was ever an option to be a GM or replace DB. Again, SB was hired because he’s buddies with DB. We also know JWs main OHL connections start / end with Erie when he bought the team. He only knew SB through DB… So I find it crazy unlikely DB would hire someone to eventually replace him or that JW would even conspire to do that behind the back of his close friend DB. It doesn’t make any sense. Not to mention the age of SB + his overall lack of success that make him a low level candidate to be a replacement. If you fire DB, why would you promote someone with SBs track record? That also doesn’t add up..

The rumor goes...

Jim Waters was set to fire DB prior to the Stan hire. Dave pleaded to JW, reached out to Stan and brought him in with the idea Stan could help turn the program around within 2 - 3 seasons. Who had GM experience that was brought in during that timeframe, SB.

It fits, but we will never know for certain.

Would also like to add...out of all of the speakers on McDavid retirement night, there was only 1 person who spoke and had boos from the fans, none other than Dave Brown.

 

[LDN]

Intriguing. I’ll be honest I’m wondering if you do need a fresh HC. I feel like this Erie team is poised to do some damage this back part of the season! When is Schaefer back?

 

[Mata]

Intriguing. I’ll be honest I’m wondering if you do need a fresh HC. I feel like this Erie team is poised to do some damage this back part of the season! When is Schaefer back?

This is the 3rd HC we will have gone through in 5 years? At this point it's more than a coaching problem, it is a GM problem as far as I'm concerned.

Has Stan lived up to expectations, he did what he said he was going to do to this point...so yes.

Have things trended downwards in the last month or so, 100%.

Did we make any roster moves to address concerns at the trade deadline, zero, none, zilch, nada...

If things are best case Schaefer could be back end of February/beginning of March.

Given his rating in the latest NHL release and being number 1 still, I don't see a need for him to rush back.

 

[LDN]

This is the 3rd HC we will have gone through in 5 years? At this point it's more than a coaching problem, it is a GM problem as far as I'm concerned.

Has Stan lived up to expectations, he did what he said he was going to do to this point...so yes.

Have things trended downwards in the last month or so, 100%.

Did we make any roster moves to address concerns at the trade deadline, zero, none, zilch, nada...

If things are best case Schaefer could be back end of February/beginning of March.

Given his rating in the latest NHL release and being number 1 still, I don't see a need for him to rush back.

Coaching problem? The roster is quite talented though!

I get what you mean, but was the feeling that Kitchener and Windsor would be this good? Kinda tough as they have honestly taken the league by surprise. If you had a new coach it may spark the team for the playoff run

 

[NOA]

The rumor goes...

Jim Waters was set to fire DB prior to the Stan hire. Dave pleaded to JW, reached out to Stan and brought him in with the idea Stan could help turn the program around within 2 - 3 seasons. Who had GM experience that was brought in during that timeframe, SB.

It fits, but we will never know for certain.

Would also like to add...out of all of the speakers on McDavid retirement night, there was only 1 person who spoke and had boos from the fans, none other than Dave Brown.

Idk I read that as JW was telling DB like hey man, this is your final crack at it. DB based on prior hires, doesn’t have a large pool of young, up and coming candidates so he decides ya know what, let me reach out to my buddy, SB, who I know has so much experience just getting teams to play to a higher more consistent floor. Basically, it was a safer hire for DB and one I’m sure he thought would buy him a few more years. I don’t see how that connects to SB as a future GM .. All it means is Dave was on the hot seat and hired a close friend, a guy who he thought was “safe” so it wouldn’t blow up. Ironically, it’s blowing up as we speak. But with Jim gone, I don’t know what this means for Dave’s job.

no offense to Jim’s family but I don’t get the sense they would be able to step in and make the appropriate hockey operation moves here. Do they know what they are doing? It’s easy to fire a guy but then who do you hire? I don’t have a lot of faith. It’s a disaster right now. The only hope is someone in the family just says hey, we need to clean house and reset here. And then they are smart enough to reach out to a firm or some independent agency to help them do it right when they hire the next GM

 

[Mata]

Coaching problem? The roster is quite talented though!

I get what you mean, but was the feeling that Kitchener and Windsor would be this good? Kinda tough as they have honestly taken the league by surprise. If you had a new coach it may spark the team for the playoff run

We will get into the playoffs, even if we limp in.

The question becomes can our current roster take out London or Kitchener and the answer seems to be an overwhelming, no.

And yes, the roster is loaded with talent that just isn't performing. That has been our modis operandi since 2018. Underperforming and little development, no matter who the coach is.

So it begs the question, is coaching the biggest issue or is it an additional issue...

Also, hearing a racial comment made could be at the center of this controversy with the announcement.

 

[Mata]

Idk I read that as JW was telling DB like hey man, this is your final crack at it. DB based on prior hires, doesn’t have a large pool of young, up and coming candidates so he decides ya know what, let me reach out to my buddy, SB, who I know has so much experience just getting teams to play to a higher more consistent floor. Basically, it was a safer hire for DB and one I’m sure he thought would buy him a few more years. I don’t see how that connects to SB as a future GM .. All it means is Dave was on the hot seat and hired a close friend, a guy who he thought was “safe” so it wouldn’t blow up. Ironically, it’s blowing up as we speak. But with Jim gone, I don’t know what this means for Dave’s job.

no offense to Jim’s family but I don’t get the sense they would be able to step in and make the appropriate hockey operation moves here. Do they know what they are doing? It’s easy to fire a guy but then who do you hire? I don’t have a lot of faith. It’s a disaster right now. The only hope is someone in the family just says hey, we need to clean house and reset here. And then they are smart enough to reach out to a firm or some independent agency to help them do it right when they hire the next GM

The last part...

I definitely agree the trade dealine has been the biggest fiasco to date. The team needed to build or sell and we did neither...we literally did the worst thing imaginable. Perhaps the reason we didn't make moves is because the team was partially paralyzed with JW's passing, but I'm tired of excuses from the team.

I agree the team needs to have a serious overhaul at the top and perhaps a fresh new coach again with loaded up draft picks because we sell off whatever we have of value is the way to go...

But Dave Brown IMO is now singlehandedly the person responsible for the mess created over almost the last decade.

 

[frontsfan67]

FWIW about Stan Butler always have thought guy is overrated anyways. Only thing he’s ever won is a U18 gold. Probably time he retires anyways.

Just as long as you don’t bring in Luca Caputi who is probably still searching for a job I think you’ll be fine.

 

[EOtterstracker]

So are we thinking he will be fired? In my books, a racial comment is 100% grounds for a firing. Also, not sure who all is up for a coaching job at the moment, so will need filled in on that. We will see what transpires.

 

[chl2024]

We will get into the playoffs, even if we limp in.

The question becomes can our current roster take out London or Kitchener and the answer seems to be an overwhelming, no.

And yes, the roster is loaded with talent that just isn't performing. That has been our modis operandi since 2018. Underperforming and little development, no matter who the coach is.

So it begs the question, is coaching the biggest issue or is it an additional issue...

Also, hearing a racial comment made could be at the center of this controversy with the announcement.

News will come out, but I think you should be careful about posting speculative rumors without knowing the story. It's not fair to anyone involved.

 

[Mata]

News will come out, but I think you should be careful about posting speculative rumors without knowing the story. It's not fair to anyone involved.

Happens all the time in the news...the org opened the door to speculative rumors with their relatively vague post.

So are we thinking he will be fired? In my books, a racial comment is 100% grounds for a firing. Also, not sure who all is up for a coaching job at the moment, so will need filled in on that. We will see what transpires.

If found to hold weight and ultimatelybe true, he should be without question. There is no excuse for stuff like this in today's world.

As far as a direction, I don't know if you can find a quality coach this late in the season to take over the reigns with everything that has happened to this point. It may be another season where our AC's ride it out.

 

[sbpointer]

Man this seems like a bit of a mess. Hopefully whoever is at the helm of the team can clean house and get some good hockey ops people in there.
No matter what team we cheer for we all benefit from a strong league with strong organizations..
Maybe this is the beginning of the next run in Erie..

 

[frontsfan67]

So are we thinking he will be fired? In my books, a racial comment is 100% grounds for a firing. Also, not sure who all is up for a coaching job at the moment, so will need filled in on that. We will see what transpires.

I don’t want to speculate much because people don’t like that but pretty bad they put that out to the public.

What makes you think it’s a racial comment? If so he 100% should be fired no question about it.

 

[sbpointer]

I don’t want to speculate much because people don’t like that but pretty bad they put that out to the public.

What makes you think it’s a racial comment? If so he 100% should be fired no question about it.

I have a hard time with this rumor because there would 100% be a " pending review" suspension on the media notes of the OHL site if they got even a sniff of that and there is nothing..

Now leave it to the OHL to prove me wrong.. but I'd ere on the side of caution speculating until we hear more..

 

[frontsfan67]

I have a hard time with this rumor because there would 100% be a " pending review" suspension on the media notes of the OHL site if they got even a sniff of that and there is nothing..

Now leave it to the OHL to prove me wrong.. but I'd ere on the side of caution speculating until we hear more..

As I said not trying to speculate and added onto his statement about potential racism and I said if that is the case he 100% should be fired.

Reality is it could be a bunch of things. For all we know Butlers family is sick. No point in guessing though.