So if they go after Musty they’re basically done. Maybe enough left to get a BUG upgrade.
Erie Otters 2024 - 25 Season Thread, Part I
- Thread starter SoupNazi
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That's the major issue. The room for error is now razor thin. If Frasca was playing better and we had a little development from Roysten/Hammond and a couple others we would be fine offensively.
As it stands, Erie needs a top 6 forward. Couple that with a defense that needs a top 4, now two with Schaefer out, and you've just emptied everything for the next several years.
Now, on the reverse side...Terrance, Fimis, and Alfano could probably command some decent returns and/or a combination of players and picks. Should it not give us what we need for next season, then we have Spence and now possibly Schaefer to go all in a second time in the sellers market and be ready for 2026.
It's not an ideal situation, but DB has failed so many times already on the trade block it would be nice to start with a fresh GM and load them up with picks/players to see what we can do next season or two years from now.
Musty would be ideal in that middle six. I don’t think Frasca would balk at trade to a preferred team given how little TOI he would receive if Musty were there.
But if recovery time for Schaefer is 3 months, maybe just sell
I should add that Hughes has been a solid pick-up thus far IMO. Unsure how Willis, McCall, and Turner will do, but if any one of them are solid it would have made the Musty trade more realistic. However, no one we've picked up on the back line is remotely close to Schaefer, or Sova (if he was still here) for that matter.
One could argue that Chicago kinda forced our hand with Misiak and led to the Sova departure. At this juncture, regardless of the Schaefer injury, I would have preferred Molnar and Sova over Frasca/Misiak.
One could argue that Chicago kinda forced our hand with Misiak and led to the Sova departure. At this juncture, regardless of the Schaefer injury, I would have preferred Molnar and Sova over Frasca/Misiak.
The only thing that should factor into acquiring Musty + is Schaefer returning ~2 weeks before the playoffs, right?
It's worth noting that on the OHL podcast at 12:45 it is mentioned that starting points for trades right now even for OAs is a player and 2x 2nds
One can hope...
Watching tonight and McCall appears to be ready for this level. He COULD be a solid 4/5 guy.
It was also brought up that when Bressette broke his collar bone a couple years back on new years, he did not return the same season. I realize no two players are the same, but it would put it really close to end of season and/or actually in the playoffs.
Does anyone know what Ambrosio's status is? He seems to have been scratched for some time now.
Daviault, Henry, Sauder, Ambrisio, and McCall would make a pretty consistent top 5 IMO. Holomego should probably be dropped and/or moved for someone else to step up.
I guess at this point I would say let Willis, Turner, and D'Alessio battle out spot number 6.
Daviault, Henry, Sauder, Ambrisio, and McCall would make a pretty consistent top 5 IMO. Holomego should probably be dropped and/or moved for someone else to step up.
I guess at this point I would say let Willis, Turner, and D'Alessio battle out spot number 6.
Agree. Thought Mccall looked pretty good out there, especially for his first game. Got some special teams in too. Also agree, time to battle for the 6th slot.
Honestly, with as many trades and moves that have happened to date, nothing is off the table IMO...
The whole mindset is you sell off next year to recoup and Schaefer injury might actually help him be back next year - so, if you sell off Schaefer/Spence next year, then you immediately get everything back plus, plus, plus. And with the new college rule, honestly it’s less of an issue with draft picks as long as Erie was / is aggressive in continuing to pursue players through that open door
A run next year is not close to an option with the current assets and players graduating after this year. If you can’t turn Schaefer / Spence into assets, then you have less assets next year than you theoretically have currently and your roster, while probably more top heavy with talent next year, lacks way too much depth to be a serious contender unless you have plans to sign 2/3 high end college talents for free (basically a lotto ticket dream)
Yes, they could sell off this year and go for it in another cycle but you have to understand the context of where this franchise has been and where the current roster and organization is at. They aren’t in any better position next year and so selling off this year, and then possibly next year just means more mediocrity in Erie and how do possibly sell most of your fans, especially your casual fans, on that approach ..
They were in a tough spot before the Schaefer injury and now it’s even tougher but IF you feel very confident about him returning for the playoffs then it shouldn’t change much of your position imo..
I agree with most of what you posted...
However, having been to the last game and talking to a number of people associated with the org and also causal fans, STH, etc...
I can tell you with 100% certainty the greatest concern right now is not how the team has done in the past, wanting playoffs this season, or even a championship run this year or next...
The most frequented concern was, what happens to our franchise now that Jim is gone. Until there is clarity I'd put money on it that people are more concerned about keeping a team here as opposed to competing this year, next year, or maybe not even for 3 years.
Does success help that long term prospectus...maybe it does and maybe it doesn't, but most people right now just want to keep the team here.
The Schaefer injury did put a major question mark in how to proceed forward, that's about the only certainty right now.
This is why I referenced the causal fans.. there arent just STHs. The causal fans are actually the difference between turning a profit or being in the red and I can tell you with certainty that casual fans care about the on ice product first and foremost. They aren’t going to games when the team isn’t winning
The long term ownership thing is a valid concern and I brought it up days after JW passed because I recognized it immediately yet some people at that time had pushback that it was even something to be worried about. Indeed, it is a question mark moving forward. But if this team is going to go for sale and a new owner is deciding to buy or whether to keep the team here, you better believe the financial books are being opened up
Again, I would agree casual fans would factor into profit on a consistent basis as it relates to the product, but right now there is no care in how said product performs.
If Erie is serious about keeping a team here, the causal fans have to show up regardless of performance and even then, it might not be enough.
I can't stress this enough, very few people are putting any stock into the success of the team for the short term. Erie appears as a whole is afraid of losing this team and willing to come out of the woodwork to support them regardless of wins and losses. We haven't had that in the past.
How long that lasts, who knows. I would venture to say it lasts as long as there is a chance to keep the team here mostly out of fear.
I understand the concerns expressed by NOA and Mata regarding the long term future of the team in Erie. The death of Jim Waters, a truly fine person, was a shock to us all. It was a great loss for this community.
I think much of the fears mentioned by NOA and Mata are the legacy of the Bassin years, and to some extent, the past dramas surrounding the SeaWolves. It is hard to erase those memories and to avoid having them color one's thinking.
I think there are, however, a couple factors which mitigate against this thinking.
First, Jim Waters completely stabilized the franchise. It is not floundering nor is it burdened with unmanageable debt. The Waters family will now need to decide what they wish to do with the franchise. However, unlike the Bassin years, there are (to my knowledge) no creditors banging upon the doors as occurred when the club was forced into bankruptcy by its creditors.
Second, the Arena renovations were completed only in the last year of Bassin's tenure, I believe, when things had already gone over the edge. The Arena is now one of the best facilities in the OHL, both in terms of size and quality. There are no obvious places which are available and offer a comparable venue within the current OHL footprint. Cornwall has been mentioned as an expansion locale after the USHL franchises in Youngstown and Muskegon were, apparently, taken out of the running by the USHL. But Cornwall does not have an arena even close to matching EIE. Once or twice failed places such as Belleville and Mississauga have been mentioned as well. In this regard, there are presently simply no readily available, obvious places to go that would be better than Erie..
Third, aside from London and perhaps Kitchener and Windsor, the general consensus is that few, if any, OHL teams are making any money. Erie's attendance is in the middle of the pack. From a purely financial perspective, There are no obviously better alternatives in the OHL footprint.
Fourth, moving Erie is contrary to the league's stated goal of expanding into the US. To the extent that the league can influence this decision, I would think that it would strongly favor maintaining a franchise in Erie.
Having said all that, I think the real danger is that if the Waters family decides to sell the franchise, a wealthy person, who just wants to be a sports owner and to whom making money operationally is not a consideration, buys the franchise and moves it to (or close to) his or her hometown. In a sale scenario, my guess is that the family would prefer to preserve Jim's legacy in Erie and would favor a buyer who would not move the franchise. But that assumes that there would be such a buyer.
The experience in the Bassin bankruptcy was not good in this regard. There were no serious local bidders for the franchise. Perhaps that would be different this time around. However, I cannot identify any obvious potential local bidders. That does not mean that there isn't someone out there, though.
It would be good, after an appropriate and respectful amount of time has passed, if the family would make its intentions known with respect to the future of the franchise. If the decision is to sell, I would hope that they would give the community an opportunity to put together a group to buy the franchise.
In sum, I think Erie has a lot of good things going for it, and that we have reason to be hopeful that this will work out OK. That is not to say that the concerns/fears discussed by NOA and Mata, are unwarranted. They are perfectly natural and appropriate, given what we have gone through with professional sports franchises in Erie over the years. I do think, however, that we are better positioned than ever to hold onto our sports franchises.
I think much of the fears mentioned by NOA and Mata are the legacy of the Bassin years, and to some extent, the past dramas surrounding the SeaWolves. It is hard to erase those memories and to avoid having them color one's thinking.
I think there are, however, a couple factors which mitigate against this thinking.
First, Jim Waters completely stabilized the franchise. It is not floundering nor is it burdened with unmanageable debt. The Waters family will now need to decide what they wish to do with the franchise. However, unlike the Bassin years, there are (to my knowledge) no creditors banging upon the doors as occurred when the club was forced into bankruptcy by its creditors.
Second, the Arena renovations were completed only in the last year of Bassin's tenure, I believe, when things had already gone over the edge. The Arena is now one of the best facilities in the OHL, both in terms of size and quality. There are no obvious places which are available and offer a comparable venue within the current OHL footprint. Cornwall has been mentioned as an expansion locale after the USHL franchises in Youngstown and Muskegon were, apparently, taken out of the running by the USHL. But Cornwall does not have an arena even close to matching EIE. Once or twice failed places such as Belleville and Mississauga have been mentioned as well. In this regard, there are presently simply no readily available, obvious places to go that would be better than Erie..
Third, aside from London and perhaps Kitchener and Windsor, the general consensus is that few, if any, OHL teams are making any money. Erie's attendance is in the middle of the pack. From a purely financial perspective, There are no obviously better alternatives in the OHL footprint.
Fourth, moving Erie is contrary to the league's stated goal of expanding into the US. To the extent that the league can influence this decision, I would think that it would strongly favor maintaining a franchise in Erie.
Having said all that, I think the real danger is that if the Waters family decides to sell the franchise, a wealthy person, who just wants to be a sports owner and to whom making money operationally is not a consideration, buys the franchise and moves it to (or close to) his or her hometown. In a sale scenario, my guess is that the family would prefer to preserve Jim's legacy in Erie and would favor a buyer who would not move the franchise. But that assumes that there would be such a buyer.
The experience in the Bassin bankruptcy was not good in this regard. There were no serious local bidders for the franchise. Perhaps that would be different this time around. However, I cannot identify any obvious potential local bidders. That does not mean that there isn't someone out there, though.
It would be good, after an appropriate and respectful amount of time has passed, if the family would make its intentions known with respect to the future of the franchise. If the decision is to sell, I would hope that they would give the community an opportunity to put together a group to buy the franchise.
In sum, I think Erie has a lot of good things going for it, and that we have reason to be hopeful that this will work out OK. That is not to say that the concerns/fears discussed by NOA and Mata, are unwarranted. They are perfectly natural and appropriate, given what we have gone through with professional sports franchises in Erie over the years. I do think, however, that we are better positioned than ever to hold onto our sports franchises.
Missing Schaefer on the power play is evident...
McCall is holding down PP1, but there is a lot of confusion on the ice because he is still so new.
Also, Holomego just needs released at this point. He is being outplayed by several other players. Ambrosio may be his demise.
McCall is holding down PP1, but there is a lot of confusion on the ice because he is still so new.
Also, Holomego just needs released at this point. He is being outplayed by several other players. Ambrosio may be his demise.
Issue with the glass down by the visitor entrance...
Believe it cracked.
Edit: it came out of the tract...disaster averted
Believe it cracked.
Edit: it came out of the tract...disaster averted
I have been saying since last season that Holomego shouldn’t be on this roster. Others say “his size” this and that but in reality, he doesn’t use it. He just floats out there. He would’ve been long gone before the start of the season.
Last I knew was he was sick. Coming from his billet. My guess is he has to build up stamina.
Terrance has been unreal this tournament. I can hardly recognize him. He’s stepped up to the occasion. He’s checking, blocking shots, jumping in the rush etc… I hope he brings this back to Erie.
Last year was a blessing in disguise when he sat out, but this year he’s taking every opportunity. Good for him.
Last year was a blessing in disguise when he sat out, but this year he’s taking every opportunity. Good for him.
Messier. 1A and - 9 in 32 Games as a 19-year-old. -25 in his illustrious career. Are there no kids in North America that could maybe do a little better this? This kid is everything that is wrong with Minor and Junior Hockey. His Daddy paid to get him on the team just like he did all through Minor hockey, His Daddy was either the Coach or Daddy's Buddy was the Coach. This kid, his Daddy and $$$ is everything that is wrong with Minor Hockey and Junior Hockey.
At this point it isn't about his production, it's about mentoring Phillips, Challenger, and whomever else they put on the 4th line.
He hasn't been the greatest asset in terms of stats, but he knows his role within the team, works hard, and has done fairly well on the PK. He's a role player and always has been and he fulfills it very well. Seems to be a pretty good teammate over the years helping others excel.
To add on, he’s not flashy by any means, but he’s a consistent player. You know what you’re going to get with him. He’s not going to light up by any means, but he’s not afraid to stick up for his teammates. He’s an enforcer. We need more players like him.
Next year might be different with NCAA and his spot could be at risk, but for this year he plays his role well.
