Erie Otters 2023-24 Offseason Thread (Part 2)

[SouthernOtter]

I like this pick a lot (assuming he signs). Goaltending has been a huge issue with this team and I'm not confident in Gibbons or Burns being able to handle a starters workload. Erliden should bring some much needed stabilization to the team which will hopefully free up the skaters to play more aggressive and use their speed. I will be curious to see how they handle Gibbons/Burns though. I still think they both have starter potential. Whether or not they can be developed to that level is another question.

Their defense should be good, and now their goaltending should be in good shape as well. They'll have a really good top 6, with a few borderline elite level talents. The depth could be an issue if some young guys don't step up.

Here's the way I see the lineup right now:

Edwards - Finis (OA) - Alfano (OA)
Spence - Terrance - Royston
Messier - Challenger - Hammond
Toroptsev - ???? - ????

The 4th line spots + 13th forward I'd expect to be filled by 2023 picks (Jordan Visneskie, Ethen Fines, and Max Campbell look promising based on their stats) or 2024 U18 picks (Oliver Phillips/Jack Clarke). I expect Smith and McDonald to be traded or released.

Sova - Henry
Schaefer - Sauder
Holomego - Daviault
Knight

Erliden
Gibbons/Burns

With some development from young guys and/or a trade for another top 6 forward, they could be a really good team. Interested to see how it plays out.

Did something happen to Molnar? I would hope he could slot into the top 6. I think your forward depth idea is a good point to bring up. Bottom 6 looks like it has some size though. Getting a 3rd line center that fits the style of the bottom six could be the move. Not sure Hammond is the answer there.

 

[EON]

Did something happen to Molnar? I would hope he could slot into the top 6. I think your forward depth idea is a good point to bring up. Bottom 6 looks like it has some size though. Getting a 3rd line center that fits the style of the bottom six could be the move. Not sure Hammond is the answer there.

Nope, totally forgot about Molnar, my mistake. Edited the post to correct. I do agree that a good 3C would help a lot.

 

[Mata]

I like this pick a lot (assuming he signs). Goaltending has been a huge issue with this team and I'm not confident in Gibbons or Burns being able to handle a starters workload. Erliden should bring some much needed stabilization to the team which will hopefully free up the skaters to play more aggressive and use their speed. I will be curious to see how they handle Gibbons/Burns though. I still think they both have starter potential. Whether or not they can be developed to that level is another question.

Their defense should be good, and now their goaltending should be in good shape as well. They'll have a really good top 6, with a few borderline elite level talents. The depth could be an issue if some young guys don't step up.

Here's the way I see the lineup right now:

Edwards - Finis (OA) - Alfano (OA)
Spence - Terrance - Molnar
Messier - Challenger - Royston
Toroptsev - Hammond - ????

The 4th line spot + 13th forward I'd expect to be filled by 2023 picks (Jordan Visneskie, Ethen Fines, and Max Campbell look promising based on their stats) or 2024 U18 picks (Oliver Phillips/Jack Clarke). I expect Smith and McDonald to be traded or released.

Sova - Henry
Schaefer - Sauder
Holomego - Daviault
Knight

Erliden
Gibbons/Burns

With some development from young guys and/or a trade for another top 6 forward, they could be a really good team. Interested to see how it plays out.

I realize Holomego had a decent amount of time last season, but I'm not sold on him holding down the 3rd line. I could see him and Knight splitting like Henry/Hologmego last season. He would have to improve a lot in order to hold a spot for me at this point.

There were a couple promising defenders at the rookie camp and with Knight getting a playoff call-up last season they must have some confidence in him. I think Henry won the battle between those two and earned his starting spot this upcoming season.

As you've pointed out in the lines, the top 5 are solid and it starts to get hazy afterwards with the need for jumps in production from Roysten, Messier, Hammond and Toroptsev to finish lines 2 and 3.

Challenger should compete for 3rd line minutes early on and even get some minutes with Terrance/Spence (he's big and had some good speed) as he could potentially match their speed/size after he adjusts to the jump in play.

I have to agree to start Roysten up on the Terrance/Spence line, but I feel like that 6th spot will be the most competed for.

I also wonder if MAYBE we see Daviault on the trade block. With Sova/Schaefer as the presumed pp1/pp2 and I would assume paired with a stay at home defender, Daviault seems to be the odd person out and having the most trade value in our back line outside of Sova/Schaefer.

 

[EOtterstracker]

I like that pick. He’s most likely going to report since the Otters like to make sure they’re gonna come before drafting them. I think it’s gonna look something like this:
Spence-Terrance-Royston

Edwards-Fimis-Alfano

Molnár-Trade-Challenger

Messier-Phillips-Hammond



Sova-Henry

Schaefer-Sauder

Daviault-Ambrosio



Erliden

Burns/Gibbons (Training Camp Depending)

 

[NOA]

I like that pick. He’s most likely going to report since the Otters like to make sure they’re gonna come before drafting them. I think it’s gonna look something like this:
Spence-Terrance-Royston

Edwards-Fimis-Alfano

Molnár-Trade-Challenger

Messier-Phillips-Hammond



Sova-Henry

Schaefer-Sauder

Daviault-Ambrosio



Erliden

Burns/Gibbons (Training Camp Depending)

Royston in the top 6? If Royston is a top 6 player this year, Erie might actually have a legit shot to make a run… They will be lucky if he can provide even 3rd line production.

I agree that goalie in the import was the smart play. I said after the season ended it would be the likely scenario and probably best use of the import pick. There are only so many goalies in the league and only a handful of those would even be worthy of trading for, let alone even be available on the market. They need a goalie before the season starts or they risk starting off behind, losing much of their games, and then it’s kind of too late to recover in the standings. So, it was ideal to get a body in asap.

Now their biggest need clearly becomes depth, and potentially top 6 talent. IMO they need 2 middle 6 forwards, in addition to someone else on the roster stepping up (Royston/Hammond, etc) to provide depth. There is still the potential of flipping Alfano for a non OA forward, which allows you to keep McDonald and thus solves part of the issue. That’s only an option if McDonald takes another step forward in his production and the organization is smart enough to make a shrewd move like that (I don’t think they are…). They don’t have a lot of picks to work with so creativity is what they need and unfortunately, DB isn’t that.. he’s more likely to “overpay” for a 3rd liner.

I would let camp/preseason play out and see where McDonald vs Alfano is at. If it’s close, you might get value for McDonald on the trade market as well. Either way, trying to flip an OA for picks that allow you to add a middle 6 forward is ideal.

Spence - Terrance - Molnar
Edwards - Fimis - (Alfano/Trade)
Royston - (McDonald/Trade) - Challenger

Then they can play through the first half of the season and see where they are at. If they are a legit threat, adding another middle 6, ideally top 6, player will be paramount

Spence - Terrance - Molnar
Edwards - Fimis - TRADE
(Alfano/McDonald) - TRADE - Royston

It really starts at the top with Terrance/Spence. The team needs them to be legit top line players, carry the team some nigh type players. If they can be that, it covers a lot of holes elsewhere. If they aren’t that, then Erie doesn’t have the firepower or depth to make a run and I would sell off

 

[ZinErie]

I wouldn't mess with what already works. I'd keep Alfano. Fimis, Alfano and Edwards were outstanding in the 2nd half. Trading Daviault and/or Holomego to a team for a middle 6 forward would be ideal.

 

[Mata]

I wouldn't mess with what already works. I'd keep Alfano. Fimis, Alfano and Edwards were outstanding in the 2nd half. Trading Daviault and/or Holomego to a team for a middle 6 forward would be ideal.

Just playing devils advocate here and I realize it was with another coach, but we did have

Sellan, D'Amato, and Hoff who played IMO at least, well above their level in 19/20 only to come back in 20/21 only to play extremely average.

Not saying that will happen with the "FEAR" line, but with Spence/Terrance looking for a 3rd person AND a lot of untested players beyond the top 5, I think it isn't out of the question to start the season with Fimis, Edwards, Alfano but if this team wants to improve on last season they will need that same 3 - 3.5 solid lines on offense with two of them being great.

I honestly don't think they move any of our top 5 (Terrance, Spence, Fimis, Alfano, Edwards) unless McDonald or Smith have made an insane jump this off season. Smith to me really struggled last season with Spence/Terrance. Whomever Stan chooses to move up to that line better have a ton of speed and skill as Spence and Terrance should be among the top speedsters in the league. Right now, Molnar or Edwards might best fill that need for the top line forcing a 3rd liner to step up to fill the void for the Fimis line.

 

[NOA]

Just playing devils advocate here and I realize it was with another coach, but we did have

Sellan, D'Amato, and Hoff who played IMO at least, well above their level in 19/20 only to come back in 20/21 only to play extremely average.

Not saying that will happen with the "FEAR" line, but with Spence/Terrance looking for a 3rd person AND a lot of untested players beyond the top 5, I think it isn't out of the question to start the season with Fimis, Edwards, Alfano but if this team wants to improve on last season they will need that same 3 - 3.5 solid lines on offense with two of them being great.

I honestly don't think they move any of our top 5 (Terrance, Spence, Fimis, Alfano, Edwards) unless McDonald or Smith have made an insane jump this off season. Smith to me really struggled last season with Spence/Terrance. Whomever Stan chooses to move up to that line better have a ton of speed and skill as Spence and Terrance should be among the top speedsters in the league. Right now, Molnar or Edwards might best fill that need for the top line forcing a 3rd liner to step up to fill the void for the Fimis line.

While I agree that Fimis/Edwards/Alfano were great together, it wasn’t some unstoppable line or a group of players who aren’t expendable. And depending on Spence/Terrance development, the best thing long term for the season might be to separate those 2 players onto different lines. Mata’s example above is a great one to point to of how you shouldn’t just bank on that line to continue that production or improve it, especially when they aren’t singularly elite players

Again, if Erie wants to compete with the big boys and take another step forward, then something they MUST address is depth. I don’t think they have enough options outside of the top 7 listed (Spence, Terrance, Fimis, Molnar, Edwards, Alfano, McDonald) to fill the middle spots of their forward group. And with the OA situation, that reduces them to 6 forwards that can consistently contribute offensively in this league. Maybe Royston or Hammond takes a step forward but haven’t seen enough to be comfortable with that. Challenger is a rookie so can’t expect a lot there, especially early on. They will need to almost certainly add a body or two if they want to improve on last year But with limited assets to work with, they need to be smart and creative…

Other organizations routinely make shrewd moves to work with the assets you have. I’m probably not trading Alfano if McDonald doesn’t improve this offseason but it’s an option to consider if McDonald can become a 50-60 point player. Move Alfano for 2/3 picks, use those picks on another 50-60 point forward who is younger and now instead of 1 middle 6 forward, you have 2 without really wasting assets. It’s an option to flip McDonald too but don’t think he will come close to Alfano’s trade market. Holomego (especially) and Devaiult aren’t likely to have a trade market that gets you a worthy middle 6 forward. And I think they need to address the middle spot of their forward group BEFORE games start but they should do so with caution / not waste major assets. Doing so helps them compete more in the short term and allows management to assess for next steps prior to trade deadline. Then if you want to use real assets to fill the roster, have at it

It’s not a move the organization would make anyways, just offseason talk…

 

[dirty12]

I think there will be a handful of decent ‘05 forwards that could be had for a 4th or 5th pick to use in the the bottom six just before the start of the season. Barrie and Niagara almost certainly have to move players to make room for a rookie or two.

At the trade deadline, Erie can add a top six winger.
Edwards-Fimis-Alfano
Spence-Terrance-X
Molnar-Fimis/Terrance/depth player-Royston
Messier-Challenger-Hammond

 

[SouthernOtter]

It will be interesting to see how they approach the trades to fill in the top 9. I think a big part to think about that I think NOA is alluding to (and why his plan makes sense), you have to see development first before the bigger top 6 trade. Do they think this is a 1 or 2 year run? If they think it’s just 1, then go for it. They would get a ton back for Spence and Schaefer in the future for a rebuild. If they think they can compete for 2 years, then I think the bigger move should be for a running mate for Spence in 25/26 and not a 19 y/o. AJ Spellacy being from west of Cleveland would be great for the 2 year plan but doubt Windsor would have any interest in giving him away.

 

[Knownothing]

It will be interesting to see how they approach the trades to fill in the top 9. I think a big part to think about that I think NOA is alluding to (and why his plan makes sense), you have to see development first before the bigger top 6 trade. Do they think this is a 1 or 2 year run? If they think it’s just 1, then go for it. They would get a ton back for Spence and Schaefer in the future for a rebuild. If they think they can compete for 2 years, then I think the bigger move should be for a running mate for Spence in 25/26 and not a 19 y/o. AJ Spellacy being from west of Cleveland would be great for the 2 year plan but doubt Windsor would have any interest in giving him away.

Moving him would conflict with Windsor’s timeline in 25/26

 

[NOA]

It will be interesting to see how they approach the trades to fill in the top 9. I think a big part to think about that I think NOA is alluding to (and why his plan makes sense), you have to see development first before the bigger top 6 trade. Do they think this is a 1 or 2 year run? If they think it’s just 1, then go for it. They would get a ton back for Spence and Schaefer in the future for a rebuild. If they think they can compete for 2 years, then I think the bigger move should be for a running mate for Spence in 25/26 and not a 19 y/o. AJ Spellacy being from west of Cleveland would be great for the 2 year plan but doubt Windsor would have any interest in giving him away.

Yes, exactly. Need to see where guys are at in preseason but the first thing they need to assess and address is the OA situation. It’s not just who is better but also who can you move in a trade and what return would you get? They should already be shopping Alfano/McDonald to get an early gauge of the market

 

[SouthernOtter]

Moving him would conflict with Windsor’s timeline in 25/26

I figured as much. Really just meant a player like him. Right shot, positional flexibility, goal scorer, and has a reason to want to play in Erie. Could help this year and next on the top line. He was the best example I could think of. In a perfect world, I think the guy we target can play the wing with our top line this year and then in 25/26 move to center since most of our young guys play the wing. Allows us to still have a pretty decent 3rd line if we acquire a cheaper center this year with Royston and Molnar. Looks like Stan likes rolling 3 lines. Then in 25/26 if the guy is bigger and can move to center next to Edwards and Royston makes a jump to play with Spence.

Would love to hear other theoretical names to give us something to think about during the summer.

 

[ZinErie]

Just had an interesting back and forth with Scott Powers, the Blackhawks reporter at the Athletic. He put out an article today about how loaded Chicago's AHL roster will be, but didn't mention Misiak. I brought him up and he said Chicago was probably sending him back to Erie. I told him Erie had drafted a goalie to take his place and that overage imports were rare. He said he'd check into it. Just responded that sending him back to Erie is still the plan. I'd love to have him on the roster, but you'd have to move an O/A and Molnar. Very interesting.

 

[dirty12]

I think Chicago should have made Erie aware of that plan in June so a team (maybe Kingston) could be found. Now they might need to come up with a new plan.
An OHL spot could open up for Mysiak somewhere though.

 

[ZinErie]

If in fact Chicago was planning on sending him back, they probably did let Erie know.

 

[frontsfan67]

I think Chicago should have made Erie aware of that plan in June so a team (Kingston) could be found. Now they might need to come up with a new plan.
An OHL spot could open up for Mysiak somewhere though.

100%. If some team doesn’t get a certain player to commit and they want to go for it. And their OA’s aren’t very good or 1 of them- they will have interest.

If in fact Chicago was planning on sending him back, they probably did let Erie know.

Any idea if Scott mentioned ludwinski and if it doesn’t go great for him like how it went at the end of the ahl reg season into the playoffs- would they consider sending him back?

 

[dirty12]

If in fact Chicago was planning on sending him back, they probably did let Erie know.

You’d think, but if it’s still the plan Chicago could not have really spoken to Erie as I’m pretty sure the hawks would have been told the OAs they have plus an open import spot is much more valuable than Misiak.

 

[ZinErie]

100%. If some team doesn’t get a certain player to commit and they want to go for it. And their OA’s aren’t very good or 1 of them- they will have interest.


Any idea if Scott mentioned ludwinski and if it doesn’t go great for him like how it went at the end of the ahl reg season into the playoffs- would they consider sending him back?

In the article he mentioned Ludwinski as part of Rockfords roster. The only other player he said would be sent back to the OHL was Lardis.

 

[three dog night]

Port Colborne Erie affiliate

 

[NOA]

Just had an interesting back and forth with Scott Powers, the Blackhawks reporter at the Athletic. He put out an article today about how loaded Chicago's AHL roster will be, but didn't mention Misiak. I brought him up and he said Chicago was probably sending him back to Erie. I told him Erie had drafted a goalie to take his place and that overage imports were rare. He said he'd check into it. Just responded that sending him back to Erie is still the plan. I'd love to have him on the roster, but you'd have to move an O/A and Molnar. Very interesting.

Interesting indeed. Still of the belief he was wasted pick at 1 overall but if they get him back this season and are able to gain some much needed assets out of it, it helps my overall perception of that pick. Not sure how many teams can add an OA/import spot but Misiak would have to have some value on the market. If not, maybe there is a possibility of moving Alfano/Molnar for picks, keeping Misiak, and using those picks to add an 18/19 year old.

 

[Guy In Burlington]

Just had an interesting back and forth with Scott Powers, the Blackhawks reporter at the Athletic. He put out an article today about how loaded Chicago's AHL roster will be, but didn't mention Misiak. I brought him up and he said Chicago was probably sending him back to Erie. I told him Erie had drafted a goalie to take his place and that overage imports were rare. He said he'd check into it. Just responded that sending him back to Erie is still the plan. I'd love to have him on the roster, but you'd have to move an O/A and Molnar. Very interesting.

Not saying it won’t happen because what do I know, but I’d be very surprised if he came back to Erie. Chicago has signed him. How many signed OAs - who were second-round NHL picks - get sent back to junior? If they don’t think he’s ready for Rockford, why not the ECHL?

 

[NOA]

Not saying it won’t happen because what do I know, but I’d be very surprised if he came back to Erie. Chicago has signed him. How many signed OAs - who were second-round NHL picks - get sent back to junior? If they don’t think he’s ready for Rockford, why not the ECHL?

Because ECHL isn’t much better of a league, just has older players. Depending on the things they want him to work on and potentially his/his agent’s perspective, OHL might make more sense. Maybe they want to see how he does sticking to a routine. He’s played on 3 teams, in 3 different cities / 2 different countries, the past 3 years. Maybe they feel yet another change would be somewhat limiting. Idk I’m not a coach or developer but I’m sure they would have their reasons.

And yes it doesn’t seem likely but Scott Powers is a pretty legit source so there has to be some smoke there. Dylan Strome eventually got sent back as a 4th year when nobody really expected it (much different situation but a much higher pick). Warren Foegele (unsigned) got sent back as OA. Sometimes things like this still happen. Probably not ideal but also Misiak wasn’t even a top 3 forward for Erie last year despite the expectations and draft status. Personally, I don’t think he’s AHL ready unless you are think bottom line minutes and some big development happens over the next few months (all possible). So then it becomes ECHL or comfort, familiarity in the OHL

 

[dirty12]

Interesting indeed. Still of the belief he was wasted pick at 1 overall but if they get him back this season and are able to gain some much needed assets out of it, it helps my overall perception of that pick. Not sure how many teams can add an OA/import spot but Misiak would have to have some value on the market. If not, maybe there is a possibility of moving Alfano/Molnar for picks, keeping Misiak, and using those picks to add an 18/19 year old.

It’s too bad Misiak was not traded in June if there was interest.
Alfano seems to me a better RW than Misiak. Maybe Misiak as RW line 2 or 3rd line centre makes sense if Sova and Molnar return enough picks that a couple more of Erie’s could bring in a good defenseman..

 

[SouthernOtter]

It’s too bad Misiak was not traded in June if there was interest.
Alfano seems to me a better RW than Misiak. Maybe Misiak as RW line 2 or 3rd line centre makes sense if Sova and Molnar return enough picks that a couple more of Erie’s could bring in a good defenseman..

If Misiak does return, he could play LW in the top 6 if they felt Royston was ready for top 6 minutes. Edwards could move back to his natural RW spot. Trade Alfano. I don’t think we can afford to trade Sova in any scenario. Crazy idea is I wonder how much we could get for Fimis. Might be easier to trade him/get more.