Eric Staal Or Sebastian Aho?

[Bruce Granville]

Staal‘s too old…

Actually your team should have both types of players for success.

 

[Stephen]

Sure, but both of them were gamers in the playoffs.

It’s very rare for a player to increase his scoring in the playoffs, when scoring falls off by as much as half a goal per game — Aho is one of those guys whose numbers actually go up under those conditions. That’s a quality you generally see in players who get a lot of media hype for their intangibles.

Staal was also really good in the clutch. His size and reach came in handy when it came down to prison rules. His 2006 and 2009 playoff runs were exceptional. Unfortunately they were his only two playoff runs in his 20s.

The difference between them is that the Canes make the playoffs with Aho. He shows up night after night to contribute to a consistent winning culture. Staal was notorious for sleepwalking through games that didn’t have urgency scripted into them, such as everything before Christmas. He set entirely the wrong tone for a team that severely underachieved during his captaincy.




Why not? He was the captain, #1C, 2OA franchise defining draft pick, EA cover athlete, face of the franchise. Cruising along with 70-point seasons wasn’t good enough, and on two different occasions those teams missed the playoffs on the last day of the season.

I don’t mean to roast him completely on here, he was a damned good player and a franchise player of sorts, but he absolutely left effort on the table and as a result he has a weird legacy of being good but not the HHOF’er he should have been. It’s not entirely clear whether the Canes will retire his number, which would have been hard to imagine in 2013, and that speaks to the extent to which his reputation fell off.

The reality is Eric Staal’s career progression was highly atypical, having his best individual and team performance first and then settling into a somewhat underachieving, maybe mediocre and comfortable career on an uncompetitive small market team. But he still technically did it all.

Aho is the opposite. He had the stable franchise center run but he hasn’t been able to get over the hump.

 

[TGWL]

As a long time Canes fan who saw both of their careers up close, Aho is a guy who leads you places. He competes, he pays attention to the details, and he’s scrappier than he gets credit for. There’s a reason they’ve been so good with him as their 1C, despite not having a particularly star studded roster. He capably fills a lot of functions and gives other players space to be their best selves.

Staal had more offensive talent but he was not a particularly well rounded player in the 200 foot game. More importantly, he visibly lost his compete around age 29 or so. The circumstances that he played under were not his fault, but he also could have led the team to better results if he had shown up ready to play consistently. The Canes arguably lost entire seasons to the dustbin of history because he couldn’t be bothered to perform for half the season.

I get what you're saying about the disappearing act, but Staal lead the league in playoff points during the year they won. He certainly helped lead the way to getting that cup in 2006.

 

[Toby91ca]

If X is 1% better than Y, then the poll should be 100% in favor of X. Poll results have nothing to do with the gap between the choices.

Totally agree with the logic.....if there is a poll with 19,000 votes to 1, it doesn't mean the player getting the 19,000 votes is significantly better than the other, if they are better, they are better, everyone votes that way. However, and it's a big HOWEVER, if 2 players are truly very, very close and one guy is only 1% better than the other, chances are you are going to have several voting for one and several voting for the other, so you'd expect a closer poll. But either way, I think the answer here would be to not read too much into the results.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The reality is Eric Staal’s career progression was highly atypical, having his best individual and team performance first and then settling into a somewhat underachieving, maybe mediocre and comfortable career on an uncompetitive small market team. But he still technically did it all.

Aho is the opposite. He had the stable franchise center run but he hasn’t been able to get over the hump.

How did Staal “do it all”? What did he do outside of the Cup and 2AS in 2006?

If you mean playing for Team Canada in 2010, take a closer look at the details of that tournament. He did nothing of note. Good for him that he’s Canadian, so he gets a medal.

He did have an epic 2 playoff rounds in 2009, and deserves a lot of credit for that. Beyond that? He never competed for any individual honor. Other than 2009 he never led a team to the playoffs when it was on his shoulders to do so. Didn’t even get to the second round again till he was a 36 year old fourth-liner tagging along. Until that point in his career, he had won fewer playoff rounds than Aho has at age 26. It was far from a “did it all” type of career, more like “thank goodness someone on his team scored the championship goal, because that’s what pulls his legacy even with Alex Kovalev’s”.

 

[ottawa]

Career Staal

Right now, Aho

 

[DitchMarner]

Sure, but both of them were gamers in the playoffs.

It’s very rare for a player to increase his scoring in the playoffs, when scoring falls off by as much as half a goal per game — Aho is one of those guys whose numbers actually go up under those conditions. That’s a quality you generally see in players who get a lot of media hype for their intangibles.

Staal was also really good in the clutch. His size and reach came in handy when it came down to prison rules. His 2006 and 2009 playoff runs were exceptional. Unfortunately they were his only two playoff runs in his 20s.

The difference between them is that the Canes make the playoffs with Aho. He shows up night after night to contribute to a consistent winning culture. Staal was notorious for sleepwalking through games that didn’t have urgency scripted into them, such as everything before Christmas. He set entirely the wrong tone for a team that severely underachieved during his captaincy.




Why not? He was the captain, #1C, 2OA franchise defining draft pick, EA cover athlete, face of the franchise. Cruising along with 70-point seasons wasn’t good enough, and on two different occasions those teams missed the playoffs on the last day of the season.

I don’t mean to roast him completely on here, he was a damned good player and a franchise player of sorts, but he absolutely left effort on the table and as a result he has a weird legacy of being good but not the HHOF’er he should have been. It’s not entirely clear whether the Canes will retire his number, which would have been hard to imagine in 2013, and that speaks to the extent to which his reputation fell off.

You're a Hurricanes fan and I'm not, but for a long time I've had this feeling that what you wrote in those bolded sentences is true concerning Staal. For a long time, to me he felt like an underachiever following his big 2006 season. Maybe that season set the bar unrealistically high.

If you compare him to Phil Kessel, Kessel was criticized a lot for a number of reasons... but it never felt to me like he didn't try until his last season with TOR, which was a disaster. He wasn't physical or good defensively, but he consistently produced and tried to do so, and that's what he was good at.

I remember looking at stats in November or so and being surprised by Staal's stats (at how bad they were for a player of his calibre). I don't remember now, but it felt like this happened at least two or three times. I think your description of events in that bolded paragraph is spot-on.


2009-2010:

2011-2012 season:

Not very inspired stretches there.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Staal, IMO. I haven't seen enough of Aho, though, to be honest.

Being a hypocritcal homophobe aside, Staal was the ideal up-and-coming centre; he was everything you'd want PLD to be. He scored 100 points but Staal never quite reached what I thought he could be, a Sundin-lite type player. He's the only Staal brother who deserves the reputation as a gamer, IMO. Jordan Staal never impressed me as much as everyone else and Marc was what he was, given his injury.

 

[Regal]

You're a Hurricanes fan and I'm not, but for a long time I've had this feeling that what you wrote in those bolded sentences is true concerning Staal. For a long time, to me he felt like an underachiever following his big 2006 season. Maybe that season set the bar unrealistically high.

If you compare him to Phil Kessel, Kessel was criticized a lot for a number of reasons... but it never felt to me like he didn't try until his last season with TOR, which was a disaster. He wasn't physical or good defensively, but he consistently produced and tried to do so, and that's what he was good at.

I remember looking at stats in November or so and being surprised by Staal's stats (at how bad they were for a player of his calibre). I don't remember now, but it felt like this happened at least two or three times. I think your description of events in that bolded paragraph is spot-on.


2009-2010:

View attachment 896631


2011-2012 season:


View attachment 896633


Not very inspired stretches there.

It seemed like every year Staal would piss off someone in fantasy enough to drop him then help someone else down the stretch.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Staal AINEC

 

[sr edler]

Aho is a bit overrated because he hustles nicely and plays on a strongly coached team, but he doesn't have that game-breaking edge you would want in a true superstar level player, and what the Hurricanes has been missing the last few years (in the playoffs).

Staal on the other hand had something of a reputation as a lazy diver, but at his best I would take him over Aho.

 

[banks]

As a long time Canes fan who saw both of their careers up close, Aho is a guy who leads you places. He competes, he pays attention to the details, and he’s scrappier than he gets credit for. There’s a reason they’ve been so good with him as their 1C, despite not having a particularly star studded roster. He capably fills a lot of functions and gives other players space to be their best selves.

Staal had more offensive talent but he was not a particularly well rounded player in the 200 foot game. More importantly, he visibly lost his compete around age 29 or so. The circumstances that he played under were not his fault, but he also could have led the team to better results if he had shown up ready to play consistently. The Canes arguably lost entire seasons to the dustbin of history because he couldn’t be bothered to perform for half the season.

I voted for Eric pretty easily here. But you're one of the few posters I recognise by username, and you definitely know your stuff, especially about Carolina. So I'm re-considering.

I'll admit, I paid more attention to the NHL (and CAR specifically) during Staal's tenure. So maybe I'm just not as aware of Aho as I should be. But I remember Eric being able to match up against the greats of the era like Crosby, Zetterberg, LeCavalier. I feel like his '05-'10 peak makes up for his "tired" period when he got into his 30s. I feel like I don't notice Aho the same amount when I watch a Canes game now. Plus Eric was the Captain, but I don't think Aho wears a letter.

Am I missing an aspect of Aho's game because I see less of him?

 

[LakeLivin]

I voted for Eric pretty easily here. But you're one of the few posters I recognise by username, and you definitely know your stuff, especially about Carolina. So I'm re-considering.

I'll admit, I paid more attention to the NHL (and CAR specifically) during Staal's tenure. So maybe I'm just not as aware of Aho as I should be. But I remember Eric being able to match up against the greats of the era like Crosby, Zetterberg, LeCavalier. I feel like his '05-'10 peak makes up for his "tired" period when he got into his 30s. I feel like I don't notice Aho the same amount when I watch a Canes game now. Plus Eric was the Captain, but I don't think Aho wears a letter.

Am I missing an aspect of Aho's game because I see less of him?

Aho is an Alternate Captain and the odds on favorite to take over the C after Staal. Some think it will be Slavin but I bet if you took a poll among Canes fans a heavy majority would predict Aho.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I voted for Eric pretty easily here. But you're one of the few posters I recognise by username, and you definitely know your stuff, especially about Carolina. So I'm re-considering.

I'll admit, I paid more attention to the NHL (and CAR specifically) during Staal's tenure. So maybe I'm just not as aware of Aho as I should be. But I remember Eric being able to match up against the greats of the era like Crosby, Zetterberg, LeCavalier. I feel like his '05-'10 peak makes up for his "tired" period when he got into his 30s. I feel like I don't notice Aho the same amount when I watch a Canes game now. Plus Eric was the Captain, but I don't think Aho wears a letter.

Am I missing an aspect of Aho's game because I see less of him?

You’re right that he peaked out higher than Aho, especially if you value a 1C’s offense over his all-round game.

One factor here is that you mention his “tired” period in his 30s, but he fell off way earlier than that. His last really good season was in 2009 when he was only 24. From 25-30 he was a 72-point player, and that includes a strong half-season in 2013.

Aho turns 27 tomorrow. Since breaking out in his 21yo season, he’s been an 82 point player. At today’s scoring rates, that’s more or less equal to what Staal was offensively during his prime. The difference is that Aho also does all the other things — he kills penalties, better at faceoffs, plays well in the matchup game, does the little things to maintain puck possession and play responsibly in the system. He’s the kind of guy a coach likes. And he gets a little better year over year, as opposed to Staal flashing potential and then getting a little worse every year.

Really the only thing Staal has on him is that explosive 2006 season, and a Cup ring. Take 2006 away and it becomes clear that Aho’s versatility is a big advantage because they’re so close statistically (after adjusting for scoring rates)

 

[BHD]

Prime Staal is on a whole other level. However, he only played at that level for certain stretches.

EDIT: Those stretches being 2006 and 2009.

 

[CanadienShark]

Fan of Aho. Not a fan of Staal.

Voted Staal.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Aho

Take away the 2006 season from Staal and his career looks a lot less impressive