Zen Arcade
Bigger than Kiss
The Pens already have 16 defensemen under contract, I can't see them adding another one. Dahlbeck is fine for the role he'd be playing, but there's no room.
Proposal: Eric Fehr (PIT) to the Coyotes for a 3rd in 2017
- Thread starter rt
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The Pens already have 16 defensemen under contract, I can't see them adding another one. Dahlbeck is fine for the role he'd be playing, but there's no room.
I'd do something around Fehr+ for Reider, but do not see a lot of incentive to move him for an early-ish 3rd (even if ARI added slightly to that).
Fehr is attractive to the Pens for many of the reasons you like him. He also gives Sullivan options when it comes to Malkin's line, because other than Malkin suddenly figuring out how to win faceoffs at an unprecedented rate late in the playoffs (halfway through the WSH series and onward), he's historically been awful. Not that Fehr is much better, but at times he has been.
So while I think the value is probably about right, I also don't see a reason why PIT would accept this as is. They don't currently need the cap space, and there's no one good enough to push Fehr out of the roster.
Fehr is attractive to the Pens for many of the reasons you like him. He also gives Sullivan options when it comes to Malkin's line, because other than Malkin suddenly figuring out how to win faceoffs at an unprecedented rate late in the playoffs (halfway through the WSH series and onward), he's historically been awful. Not that Fehr is much better, but at times he has been.
So while I think the value is probably about right, I also don't see a reason why PIT would accept this as is. They don't currently need the cap space, and there's no one good enough to push Fehr out of the roster.
Even if that's the case, odds are that he wouldn't be moved (other than an upgrade) until sometime in the 17/18 season, when Rutherford could be absolutely certain that he wasn't needed.
The only way he gets moved now is for a younger/better player coming back. That or someone offers something completely unrealistic that Rutherford just can't turn down. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense to move him for "fair value", because his value to PIT will be worth a lot more then what "fair value" to most other teams would be.
Paulie Gualtieri
R.I.P. Tony Sirico
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I was open to trading Fehr if we couldn't afford Cullen, and for added flexibility. Not interested right now.
Dylonus
Registered User
I can't argue either way, I suppose. Fehr is a quality leader and bottom line role player, but the trade could bring in Sundqvist (if he's ready) and a nice pick; plus Vesey?
I'm happy either way. Not sure why the Yotes give up a 3rd. Seems high IMO. I expected a 5th.
I'm happy either way. Not sure why the Yotes give up a 3rd. Seems high IMO. I expected a 5th.
Paulie Gualtieri
R.I.P. Tony Sirico
- May 18, 2016
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I'd rather have Sunny in WBS instead of as our 13th forward. An early third is very fair for Fehr.
I agree with you on this. I think Fehr will have a much better season than last year dealing with his injuries. Granted with the Pens bunch of cheap quality bottom 6er's I wouldn't be against a trade but would need to be more of an overpayment. Fehr can play up and down the line up in many roles and positions, It's nice to have him.
Now if you guys want Flower or Kunitz have at it. Those two players are ****ing with the Penguins cap, especially Flower.
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
Vibe I'm getting from this thread is that Pens fans think an early 3rd is fair value, but the Cullen signing doesn't make Fehr expendable because it's better for Sundqvist to be in the minors this year. However, if the Pens were to win the Vesey sweepstakes than Fehr for the AZ 3rs starts to make more sense. Is that about accurate?
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
From a roster building perspective, I don't like not having a RHS center that can take faceoffs anywhere in the lineup. Nor do I like having Justin Schultz being the only non-Letang RHS d-man (thus, Dahlbeck).
But I have some odd opinions I guess as a coach and really value handedness...so don't listen to me basically haha...
But I have some odd opinions I guess as a coach and really value handedness...so don't listen to me basically haha...
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
Everything before the bold yes. Personally I do not see Vesey impacting Fehr at all. Vesey is a LW, while Fehr plays RW/C, and even if we do get Vesey (doubt it), we don't need to move someone cap wise, and would not need to make roster space for him to sign here. I'd imagine it would be one of Vesey, Sheary or Wilson battling for that last spot when everyone is healthy, as I can't see Sully benching Kunitz or Fehr.
So while the early 3rd is fairish value, it still doesn't make sense to make a move like that this season for Fehr, nor do I think Rutherford would do it. He just provides too much versatility. But like I said before... if you want to talk Fehr+ for Reider...
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
Well, obviously I value Fehr at about a 3rd so the "+" in that scenario would have to be a heck of a lot more valuable than Fehr himself. So I don't see that as the basis of any workable deal.
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
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The trouble basically boils down to the Pens being a lot deeper at LW than RW. If we moved Fehr - who was very good as a 4RW for us last year - we don't have any obvious replacement, and since our main goal is winning now, a mid-round pick doesn't justify moving him.
If Sprong hadn't gotten injured long-term, things might have been different. He could have gotten an audition with Malkin, Rust could have slid down to the 4th line, and Fehr could be expendable.
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
Well, we're betting on Fehr - a sluggish skater as it is in this apparently high-tempo system - for two more years being useful above his replacements. Beyond the fact that a bottom six forward wouldn't be tough to replace necessarily, the two/three things that Fehr valuable are his: size (our other good defensive centers are Cullen and Bonino, both are not big players...Fehr can go toe to toe with some of the bigger centers in the league and has an advantage against LHS for turning pucks over into transition), RHS faceoff ability and something of an ability to score from mid-range...which is the most distinct rarity for most bottom six forwards to possess.
You have a guy that can score a TD from the 15 in a group that needs to be inside the 2 to have a prayer. Rust has limited scoring touch, Kuhnhackl re-imaged his game to just make the show, etc. there's not a lot of punch from even semi distance.
That said, it's not hard to see a case where you 'short' the Fehr stock. Unload his $2 mil, take the top 100 pick, bet on Sundqvist and later the Scandinavian kid that we just drafted whose name escapes me as the moment, Kasper something, Bjorkqvist? Something like that, sorry. He doesn't have a very high ceiling in his own right, already a pro, he could be ready to at least participate in fairly short order. Worst case, you grab someone off waivers or for a late pick and lose the commitment to Fehr in the process.
I don't think that's unreasonable. Not to say that "we don't picks, we'd rather have Fehr" is unreasonable either. Just posing the alternate scenario where as a GM you're "betting" on the value of your players, now and future, and your ability to evaluate not only talent for the future but the erosion of existing talent...
You have a guy that can score a TD from the 15 in a group that needs to be inside the 2 to have a prayer. Rust has limited scoring touch, Kuhnhackl re-imaged his game to just make the show, etc. there's not a lot of punch from even semi distance.
That said, it's not hard to see a case where you 'short' the Fehr stock. Unload his $2 mil, take the top 100 pick, bet on Sundqvist and later the Scandinavian kid that we just drafted whose name escapes me as the moment, Kasper something, Bjorkqvist? Something like that, sorry. He doesn't have a very high ceiling in his own right, already a pro, he could be ready to at least participate in fairly short order. Worst case, you grab someone off waivers or for a late pick and lose the commitment to Fehr in the process.
I don't think that's unreasonable. Not to say that "we don't picks, we'd rather have Fehr" is unreasonable either. Just posing the alternate scenario where as a GM you're "betting" on the value of your players, now and future, and your ability to evaluate not only talent for the future but the erosion of existing talent...
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
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I don't think many necessarily want to keep Fehr for the duration of his deal, it just doesn't make a lot of sense for a contender to give up dependable RW depth for a mid-round pick before the likes of Sprong and Bjorkqvist are available, IMO.
A 3rd isn't more important than a versatile two-way player who can move up and down the line-up when our RW depth is what it is. If we acquired a scoring line RW option somewhere along the way, sure.
Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
Yeah, if Fehr moves out then he's being replaced with a Scott Wilson or Conor Sheary-type, and they're not ideal fits on the fourth line. Fehr's versatility is more valuable to the Pens than the cap space trading him would open up at this point in time.
An early-ish third is absolutely fair trade value for him, but the Penguins would probably need something unfair to consider moving him.
FWIW I could easily see this being opposite of the case this time next year, while Fehr will still have a year left on his contract. Just right now I don't think there's the depth behind Fehr to make me comfortable with moving him out...and the long-shot chance of Vesey signing in Pittsburgh really doesn't change that since he's a middle-6 LW. That'd demote Sheary/Wilson down/out of the line-up, but neither of them are ideal fits for the fourth line RW gig anyway.
It is also worth noting that Fehr went into last season injured and really never was at 100%, so while he certainly didn't set the world on fire last year, we also weren't getting the best version of him most nights.
An early-ish third is absolutely fair trade value for him, but the Penguins would probably need something unfair to consider moving him.
FWIW I could easily see this being opposite of the case this time next year, while Fehr will still have a year left on his contract. Just right now I don't think there's the depth behind Fehr to make me comfortable with moving him out...and the long-shot chance of Vesey signing in Pittsburgh really doesn't change that since he's a middle-6 LW. That'd demote Sheary/Wilson down/out of the line-up, but neither of them are ideal fits for the fourth line RW gig anyway.
It is also worth noting that Fehr went into last season injured and really never was at 100%, so while he certainly didn't set the world on fire last year, we also weren't getting the best version of him most nights.
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