Grate n Colorful Oz
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Most minutes at 5v5 on the Habs, with a 2.64 GA/60 (5V5).
Epic Calder Race 2024-25
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Most minutes at 5v5 on the Habs, with a 2.64 GA/60 (5V5).
Gravity
Generational Poster
He doesn't know what he's talking about, let him be with his delusions.
Grate n Colorful Oz
Get busy livin
Not proficient defensively, yet among the 190+ dmen who've played 600 or more minutes at 5v5, Lane is 3rd for takeaways per 60:
Dustin Wolf rookie season comparables:
Andrew Raycroft, Steve Mason.
Lane Hutson rookie season comparables:
Denis Potvin, Quinn Hughes, Cale Makar, Nicklas Lidstrom, Ray Bourque, Gary Suter, Phil Housley, Brian Leetch, Chris Chelios.
Andrew Raycroft, Steve Mason.
Lane Hutson rookie season comparables:
Denis Potvin, Quinn Hughes, Cale Makar, Nicklas Lidstrom, Ray Bourque, Gary Suter, Phil Housley, Brian Leetch, Chris Chelios.
Tkachuk Norris
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2012
- 15,616
- 6,690
Interesting that you forgot to include Martin Brodeur, Ken Dryden, Terry Sawchuk, Glenn Hall, Tony Esposito, Tom Barrasso, Evgeni Nabokov and Ed Belfour
Also convieniently omitted Bryan Bérard, Barrett Jackman, Tyler Myers…
Brodeur: sure, close enough.
Dryden: led the league in wins, games played, minutes played, GSAA, had a .930 sv%, and finished 2nd in Hart voting. Yeah, this isn’t a good comparison for Wolf lol.
Sawchuk: we don’t even have enough stats available to make a worthwhile comparison because they barely tracked anything back then, but Sawchuk played 70 games and recorded 44 wins, leading the league in both categories. Again, not a flattering comparison for Wolf at all.
Glenn Hall: led the league in games played (70), minutes played, shutouts (12), and had vastly superior numbers - 30 wins, .925 sv%, 2.10 GAA. Bad look for Wolf here yet again.
Tony Esposito: led the league in wins (38), sv% (.932), shutouts (15), GSAA (39.6), won the Vezina, and finished 2nd in Hart voting. Legitimately one of the greatest goaltending seasons of all time. You did Wolf dirty with this comparison lmao.
Tom Barasso: won the Vezina and had superior numbers when considering the era. Another bad matchup for Wolf.
Nabokov: started 66 games, winning 32, and had better numbers than Wolf. Closer, but Wolf still loses this one.
Ed Belfour: led the league in games played (74), wins (43), sv%, GAA, minutes played, GSAA (44.6), and more. Won the Vezina, Jennings, and placed 3rd in Hart voting. Absolutely terrible comparison for Wolf.
On the other hand, Hutson has already eclipsed the seasons of all three of Bérard, Myers, and Jackman and the season isn’t even over yet.
Was your post supposed to help your argument? Lol
If the Habs make the playoffs, I don't know that anyone has a case with how important Hutson is to the Habs. The Isles loss last night was pretty devastating to their playoff hopes, the Jackets have run out of gas it feels like - who else is even in contention? The Rangers have been a disaster all season long.
Tkachuk Norris
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2012
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I was simply looking at players who won the Calder. You clearly chose the worst two examples for Wolf and omitted all the guys who went on to have hall of fame careers.
Save percentages were actually higher during most of those eras… then you look at Save percentages above expected and Wolf is near the top of the league on most sites.
GSAA considers the average goalie at the time. So those kinds of numbers are hugely inflated when you have goalies of the 80s who were playing like street hockey bums. It’s like comparing Teemu Selanne’s rookie season to Celebrini.
Barrasso had an .893 and yet you say his season was vastly superior to Wolf’s… both guys actually were about .015 above average. Again comparing to an era where the goalies and defensive systems were awful. The league average save percentage is .894 this season. When Mason won it was .906, when Raycroft won it was .908.
The point is:
Hutson and Wolf are close statistically to the guys I mentioned in my original post, respectively.
They are not close statistically to the guys you mentioned, except for Brodeur, I’ll give you that one, but as great as Brodeur ended up being, his rookie season wasn’t all that special. Personally, I don’t think he should’ve even won it.
No I didn’t. I chose comparisons based on similarity, both in terms of statistics, as well as where they stood/stand relative to their peers.
That’s great; he’s having an impressive season. But it’s one category, and he’s going to play less than 50 games. Anyone who knows hockey knows that it gets harder and harder for goaltenders to maintain numbers above the mean with increasing games played. It’s why nobody gives a crap that Brian Elliot holds the modern day record for sv% (.940 in 38 games played).
So Wolf is not as good compared to his peers as nearly all the guys you mentioned were. Got it.
I actually did not say that about Barasso; I just said superior, and he was (relative to his peers). He won the Vezina that year as an 18 year old. If Wolf wins the Vezina, we can start a conversation.
Wolf is a distant third right now and I can't see that changing.
It certainly won't hurt his case but I think he will still be on the outside looking in for being a finalist.
Hutson, Celebrini and wolf have simply been too good to knock out.
I think he will probably be a distant 3rd in voting but in reality he is closer to 1 and 2 than Michkov is to him IMO.
Calgary is a night and day difference with Wolf in net.
As I've said earlier contextually his season is probably right up there with Hutson and Celebrini but just looking at the raw statistics its a tough case to make for him, when the other 2 are doing what they are this year.
Sure I guess but I dunno people are going to compare Wolf to the other Calgary goalies and say wow he is extremely proficient in his rookie year right?
I don't think wolf will win but what if he gets 30+ wns and is one of the primary reasons the Flames make the playoffs?
I still think people 30 years from now would say how did a goalie who finished out of the top 10 in every statistical category except for save percentage (7th) beat out a 18 year old future hall of fame center who was close to ppg and a player who had best offensive season from a defenseman in a generation.
Steve mason had 10 shutouts. 10! , and the crew he beat out didn't compare to Hutson and Celebrini.
Andrew raycroft had a more mediocre year but he was up against a 23 year olds Michael Ryder and Trent Hunter.
Still had a better rookie season than Michkov
Edit:
Michkov: “And I took that personally.”
Lmao Habs are a train wreck tonight
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Except this isn't anywhere near how calder voting works.
Well it's a good thing no one is competing against steve Mason and do voters really look at "historical calder winners " or do they look at this stats and watch games and maybe talk to other hockey people about this season?
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5th rookie defenseman in NHL history to record 50 assists in a season.
Jfc. I don’t find these discussions with you enjoyable at all.
Wolf will not beat out Hutson, celebrini, and maybe not even michkov
Have a great day
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Yeah. The gap between Wolf and Vladar is sizeable. Wolf is the most important rookie on any team but I still don’t think he wins because he is a goalie and an Eastern team has someone who is also deserving.
Probably not a coincidence that Michkov is dancing tonight right after Torts is fired
danisonfire
2313 Saint Catherine
- Jul 2, 2009
- 1,490
- 517
Without a Celebrini a scoring bender to pull away;
It will be 1) Hutson, 2) Celebrini, 3) Wolf.
They usually like to throw in the goalie 3rd. All three players are having big seasons. The historical Calgary goalie farm is back in session. Nobody had Wolf sniffing the top 3 at the start of the year, either.
Michkov is also rapidly climbing in points so we will have to see how that ends up at the end of the year.
It will be 1) Hutson, 2) Celebrini, 3) Wolf.
They usually like to throw in the goalie 3rd. All three players are having big seasons. The historical Calgary goalie farm is back in session. Nobody had Wolf sniffing the top 3 at the start of the year, either.
Michkov is also rapidly climbing in points so we will have to see how that ends up at the end of the year.
Mobiandi
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2015
- 20,875
- 17,268
Says who lol, you? He’ll be playing his 44th tonight with at least 6 more starts to come in 13 remaining games
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