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Epic Calder Race 2024-25

karltonian said:
It depends if people watch the games to make up their minds. If they do they will notice how much Celebrini does on the ice and how he generates so much that on other teams would turn into points more frequently. Context does matter.
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Half sarcastic response: this is the largely east coast based media we’re talking about. You think they’re watching many Sharks games? They’re getting ready for bed before Sharks games even start.

I wish I were being completely sarcastic instead of only half sarcastic.
 
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karltonian said:
It depends if people watch the games to make up their minds. If they do they will notice how much Celebrini does on the ice and how he generates so much that on other teams would turn into points more frequently. Context does matter.
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This is a foolish argument. Using this logic, I can say that if people actually watched Montreal's games, they'd see that if the other players converted even a slightly higher percentage of the chances that Hutson creates, he'd have way more points and would break records. But that would be foolish as well.

Calder trophies aren't awarded based on what would happen if a candidate were playing on a team full of superstars. They're awarded based on the performance by the candidate himself, in the situation he is in. If Celebrini played for the Oilers or Leafs, he'd be a third line center at best, and get far fewer opportunities. Context does indeed matter.
 
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karltonian said:
It depends if people watch the games to make up their minds. If they do they will notice how much Celebrini does on the ice and how he generates so much that on other teams would turn into points more frequently. Context does matter.
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Agreed re watching the games, stats plus the eye test make Hutson the favourite by a mile
 
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karltonian said:
It depends if people watch the games to make up their minds. If they do they will notice how much Celebrini does on the ice and how he generates so much that on other teams would turn into points more frequently. Context does matter.
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I don’t think so. You have a blueliner outpointing a forward. Teams or not and even factoring in the missed games, I think (for now anyway) Hutson’s ahead.

But that certainly doesn’t mean he’ll have the better career or be the better player.
 
JIMVINNY said:
This is a foolish argument. Using this logic, I can say that if people actually watched Montreal's games, they'd see that if the other players converted even a slightly higher percentage of the chances that Hutson creates, he'd have way more points and would break records. But that would be foolish as well.

Calder trophies aren't awarded based on what would happen if a candidate were playing on a team full of superstars. They're awarded based on the performance by the candidate himself, in the situation he is in. If Celebrini played for the Oilers or Leafs, he'd be a third line center at best, and get far fewer opportunities. Context does indeed matter.
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I think the poster was making the case that if voters watch Shark's games they will see the level of impact Celebrini is having that doesn't show up in the stats line.

If you watch 3 Shark's games in a row it is hard not to come out thinking that

a) He is the best player on the Sharks
b) He is often the best player on the ice for either team
c) His game is so far above that of a typically 18-year old

Those, along with with a very solid stat line might sway voters.

Personally, I think if Lane cracks the all-time top 5 rookie D for points (65 or more) it that will carry enough voters for him to win. Sort of how EK65 won the Norris when he was the 1st D in forever to put up 100 points.
 
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Herschel said:
If you watch 3 Shark's games in a row it is hard not to come out thinking that

a) He is the best player on the Sharks
b) He is often the best player on the ice for either team
c) His game is so far above that of a typically 18-year old

Those, along with with a very solid stat line might sway voters.
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Yeah, but the award is not "Rookie who is best player on his own team" either.

If Hutson outpoints Celebrini, even with the difference in games played, I think he'll win and deservedly so. A rookie defenseman putting up elite scoring totals, even if they're mostly assists, is rare.
 
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Summer Rose said:
Half sarcastic response: this is the largely east coast based media we’re talking about. You think they’re watching many Sharks games? They’re getting ready for bed before Sharks games even start.

I wish I were being completely sarcastic instead of only half sarcastic.
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Actually, I've been pleasantly surprised at how many people tune in just to watch Celebrini. One of the nice things about this year (to lessen the pain of being the worst team in hockey again) is all the nice things opposing team fans say about him.
 
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Herschel said:
I think the poster was making the case that if voters watch Shark's games they will see the level of impact Celebrini is having that doesn't show up in the stats line.

If you watch 3 Shark's games in a row it is hard not to come out thinking that

a) He is the best player on the Sharks
b) He is often the best player on the ice for either team
c) His game is so far above that of a typically 18-year old

Those, along with with a very solid stat line might sway voters.

Personally, I think if Lane cracks the all-time top 5 rookie D for points (65 or more) it that will carry enough voters for him to win. Sort of how EK65 won the Norris when he was the 1st D in forever to put up 100 points.
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Celebrini is really a fantastic player, Sharks won the 1st overall in the right year
 
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Sasha Orlov said:
Celebrini is really a fantastic player, Sharks won the 1st overall in the right year
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But the problem is that they tanked too hard and now their fans are unhappy that Celebrini's teamates aren't good enough to benefit his production. Just like Bedard having his progression impaired by the mediocrity of his team. Tanking too hard is bad imo.
 
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NikolaTesla said:
But the problem is that they tanked too hard and now their fans are unhappy that Celebrini's teamates aren't good enough to benefit his production. Just like Bedard having his progression impaired by the mediocrity of his team. Tanking too hard is bad imo.
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He's still 18, they'll get over it.
 
As a Habs' fan I really could care less if Hutson wins or not given he has some great competition each of the three teams and fan bases are lucky to have.

Hutson has been been awesome and a gamechanger, without him the Habs aren't close to a playoff spot.

Dustin Wolf continues to be excellent in every league he plays in, I thought the Flames would be a bottom feeder this year yet Wolf has them in a playoff race.

I haven't watched a ton of Celebrini this year, but each time I have I have been impressed given he plays like a veteran as an 18 year old. Almost any other year he'd be a lock for the Calder.

Right now I'd say it is between Wolf/Hutson but at this point I think it will come down to the wire, wouldn't be surprised if Celebrini catches fire and ends up with close to 70 points making the decision even tougher.
 
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JIMVINNY said:
Comparing Hutson to Celebrini to Wolf is foolish. If you want to assess a players performance, compare him to his peers. Hutson is having a season not seen in decades, when compared to other rookie defensemen. The other two, while impressive, are not doing anything nearly as exceptional when compared to other calder winners at their position.
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Great point.
matt trick said:
Good point, glad we sucked last year. Glad we suck this year too. Won't be glad when we suck next year, but at least it's an excellent draft. As long as we don't suck (bottom 7) the following year, I'll be content.

Wouldn't trade Celebrini for any of 'em, but Hutson is a joy to watch. I love puck-moving d-men, and he is a special one.
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Exactly. Get the best pick you can this draft You have a great one in Celebrina.
That is how you start a rebuild.
 
JIMVINNY said:
Comparing Hutson to Celebrini to Wolf is foolish. If you want to assess a players performance, compare him to his peers. Hutson is having a season not seen in decades, when compared to other rookie defensemen. The other two, while impressive, are not doing anything nearly as exceptional when compared to other calder winners at their position.
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Blatantly bullshit. The Flames are last in the league for goals for and are pushing a playoff spot because of their goaltending. The last time a team was bottom in the league for goals for and weren't in the bottom 3 in the league was over a decade ago. This isn't even rookie goalies, this is ALL goalies.

Wolf smokes the competition, but I understand no one watches the Flames so stay ignorant.

Hutson is a decent d-man in the league, Wolf is a top 5 goalie in the league.
 
JPeeper said:
Blatantly bullshit. The Flames are last in the league for goals for and are pushing a playoff spot because of their goaltending. The last time a team was bottom in the league for goals for and weren't in the bottom 3 in the league was over a decade ago. This isn't even rookie goalies, this is ALL goalies.

Wolf smokes the competition, but I understand no one watches the Flames so stay ignorant.

Hutson is a decent d-man in the league, Wolf is a top 5 goalie in the league.
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For a 'decent' d-man in the league, he's tied for 5th for all D's in the league. All other D's behind him must plain suck. :D
 
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