- Jul 25, 2007
- 5,049
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Performance in the playoffs won't, but getting a team to the playoffs that everyone thought wouldn't be there would absolutely work in Wolf's favor (or Hutson's).
Epic Calder Race 2024-25
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Celebrini isn't a 1st line forward and a key player at Center? hes already the tops in the league with o-zone entries, with mackinnon and mcdavid. great 2 way game. he does everything and makes something happen all the time. more times then not hes the best player on the ice and he doesnt have these long bad stretches of play. To say he is extremely inconsistent is just flat out incorrect. Hutson great too. Just dont agree with that statement. Oh and hes the youngest player in the league
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JPeeper
Registered User
- Jan 4, 2015
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Wolf
Hutson
Celebrini
Factoring in what they mean to their team + how impressive the season is, this is my breakdown. Celebrini is a good player obviously, but come on, his team is all time bad still and are in last place, without him they're still last place. Hutson has down wonders for Montreal and they're fighting for the playoffs, without him are they just as good, slightly worse, much worse? Without Wolf the Flames are fighting with San Jose, with Wolf they're in a WC spot. Flames are bottom 3-5 in nearly every offensive category.
Hutson
Celebrini
Factoring in what they mean to their team + how impressive the season is, this is my breakdown. Celebrini is a good player obviously, but come on, his team is all time bad still and are in last place, without him they're still last place. Hutson has down wonders for Montreal and they're fighting for the playoffs, without him are they just as good, slightly worse, much worse? Without Wolf the Flames are fighting with San Jose, with Wolf they're in a WC spot. Flames are bottom 3-5 in nearly every offensive category.
Yeah, Celebrini is putting up points and playing well but Wolf is outright stealing games
BaileyMacTavish
Hockey lovin' wolf
Celebrini is on the ice for like 19 mins. There's still a 40 minute chunk of game where he is off the ice and his bad teammates f*** everything (especially that defense) up while being backstopped by 4giev (lol). This isn't basketball where a single skater can carry this trash heap to anything. He could score 2 and the rest of the team gives up 4 anyway. The fact he can produce despite this roster being garbage tier is pretty damn amazing
JoeThorntonsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
Flames are 6-10-5 (.405 P%) without Wolf.
Sharks are 3-8-1 (.292 P%) without Celebrini.
ryan callahan
Registered User
- Jan 25, 2014
- 2,323
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32 GAs at 5v5 in about 600 minutes of play isn't what I'd call a great ''two way game'' yet. Excellent offensive player, yes. But don't call him something he isn't yet.
I'll take the eye test over the stats with zero context 8 days a week.
A center on a really bad team with hard opponents is going to get any player a large number of goals against.
Hes not the only one on the ice, out of those 600 minutes do you care to tell me who the linemates were? Very interested as he has been placed with bottom tier 3rd/4th liners at this point. Anyone who consistently watches him wouldnt say such things. i didnt call him a Selke candidate, but it is much more then your stats say. He makes a few great defense plays every game. too say he isnt a good 2 way player already is foolish, and tells me you havent watched a lot of him.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
You do realize that he shares the ice with a group of defensemen who couldn't defend their way out of a paper bag, no?
He's also bend hard-matched against guys like Barkov and Crosby on purpose recently. He's doing it all.
And the other side of the coin is...
Flames are 18-7-2 (.704 P%) with Wolf
Flames are 6-10-5 (.405 P%) without Wolf
Sharks are 12-24-5 (.354 P%) with Celebrini
Wolf clearly has the biggest impact on team wins and pts.
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Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
- 80,877
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Without Hutson the Canadiens aren’t where they are. He’s been absolutely spectacular and an offensive catalyst. Enough to bring the team into playoff contention.
Now, should that matter? I’m not sure. It’s not Cellebrini’s fault that he’s on a total rebuild roster for example.
As for Wolf, I have no doubt he’s key to Calgary. Goaltending is the most important position. Show me a good coach and I’ll show you a good goalie.
BaileyMacTavish
Hockey lovin' wolf
Once again. Hockey is a team game and if the defensemen and goalie are bad, it doesn't matter how good you are because no one skater is on the ice for the full 60 minutes
It does make me chuckle how the onslaught of (some) very loud and cocky Habs fans disappear all of a sudden. No points in the past 3 games for Hutson and -3. This is another reminder of how anything can happen. Celebrini, Hutson, Wolf, Michkov (smaller chance)…any of them could still win it.
Felidae
Registered User
- Sep 30, 2016
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Personally I think the race should be between Hutson and Wolf right now
They aren't only competing for the calder.. Not that they will be finalists or anything, but both are likely to receive a few Norris and Vezina votes if they keep their current play up the whole season.
They aren't only competing for the calder.. Not that they will be finalists or anything, but both are likely to receive a few Norris and Vezina votes if they keep their current play up the whole season.
Hutson isn't receiving any Norris votes this season as voters put their top 5 on the ballot and all Habs fans but a select few know this won't happen, nor should it.
Even Wolf is a long shot here.
As for the future who knows the list of excellent NHL Dman currently in the league without a finalist on their resume is excellent already.
Felidae
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voting records go past just the top 5 most voted players.
Huston is on pace to have a higher scoring season than Hughes. It's no guarantee he keeps it up. But even finishing just below Hughes by the end of the season.. he'd be as good a bet as any young defenseman his age to end up a Norris finalist in the future.
For the record Macklin is having an excellent season as well. If we were judging based on what's more impressive, especially relative to age, then Macklin has a better case than Wolf and arguably even Hutson. But that's not how it usually works though, otherwise Crosby would have won the calder against Ovechkin.
tiburon12
Registered User
- Jul 18, 2009
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For the Norris and Vezina, voters choose 5 players to vote for.
Hutson is 8th in D scoring (the one thing he's good at) and has significant defensive deficiencies (he's a rookie, this isn't a knock). Who among the big dogs of Hughes, Makar, Werenski, Morrisey, Hedman, or Fox would be booted from the ballot for Hutson votes? What has Hutson done to deserve Norris votes over Theodore or Chychrun, who are having great seasons on both sides of the puck?
Similarly, what has Wolf done that's showed he is better at his position (the definition of the Vezina) over Hellebuyck, Oettinger, Vasi? How is his season that much better than Daccord's, or Thompsons. He has the same sv% as Blackwood, who spent half his season on the worst team in the league, and a lower sv% than Keumper and Stolarz. Who is Wolf booting from that ballot?
I'm sure Hutson will get a few Norris votes from homer Habs voters, but it's not tracking to be a reality where a GM throws Wolf a vezina vote. These awards don't factor rookie status into the voting.
That's because there is usually some divergence on the 4th and 5th guys on the ballot, this year it's a solid top 3 right now and if you really think hutson is a top 5 or even top 10 Dman in the league this season then I don't know what to say.
Well you didn't bring up future seasons but Quinn has an excellent defensive game for an offensive Dman and even before winning the Norris last year his best finish was 9th, although he had a legit argument to be a finalist that year, but Lane isn't even close to Quinn circa 22-23 season.
Usually how it works is who is the most impressive rookie and points is the usual factor but some of the voters actually do spend a lot of time watching the candidates so we will know more next time any sample polling of voters comes out which should be next week I think.
3 guys really stand out as finalists right now and maybe Michkov can climb back in and make it interesting.
Felidae
Registered User
- Sep 30, 2016
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I didn't write my post thinking either were top 5 in their position so we don't exactly disagree on anything. Just that they'll possibly get a few votes thrown their way.
Though I think you could argue Wolf is a top 10 goalie in the league right now.
No, but I do think he ranks higher among defenseman than Macklin does among forwards. Huston is already one of the best offensive defenseman in the league this season (8th atm). Macklin is the best scoring rookie forward, but isn't top 25 in scoring for centers.
Yeah.. you brought up the future. Again, all I said he's as good a bet as any young defenseman his age to be a future Norris contender if we are just basing on trajectory and how his rookie season stacks up to past defenseman his age. Obviously flimsy as hell since development isn't linear.. but that's kinda all you have to go off of.
And no one said anything about Lane being close to 22-23 Quinn much less present Quinn. Quinn's rookie season was in 2019. That's what I'm comparing Lane to.
No disagreement here.
JPeeper
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- Jan 4, 2015
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What game numbers are you using here as they don't add up, like at all.
53-41=12 which is the number of games this season that the Sharks have played without celebrini in the lineup.
- Aug 24, 2011
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Reading this thread to find out who is this season’s Brock Faber, i.e. the guy who only delusional hockey hipsters think will/should win the Calder.
Timo Time
73-9
I sometimes revisit this thread and have to wonder, how many of your dogs did Celebrini kill? The dismissiveness of his play this season is bordering insanity.
