Epic Calder Race 2024-25

[wetcoast]

A lot of Celebrini's fans showed confident that Celebrini will win the Calder. But deep down, you guys are very scared about the meteoric raise of Hutson. The Habs are playing better and better and Hutson will continue to get more points. When points gap between Hutson and Celebrini growed larger, these voters will not have any choice but voting for Hutson.

Sounds more like projection both on this and the other Hutson thread from some select Hab fans.

Lane is having a fine rookie season but some of the comments are just so out there and like an avalanche of not only optimism but extreme fandom.

Coupled with some of the takes in any Habs player being mentioned in any trade now would think that the Habs are the best team in the league right now or something.

some of my fellow Canuck fans are like this as well and I have never understood how blind they can be at times.

It’s outdated information

The article is dated today and the since the information was collected the Habs played a single game.

 

[waitin425]

Prob the most rational take on the thread

Do we really want a nerd winning the Calder

(Also it’s celebrini AINEC, anyone saying any different doesn’t stay up late enough to watch the sharks, Hutson has played himself into 2nd now )

Bolded is why I can't take you seriously. It is closer than you think and a toss up at this point.

 

[wetcoast]

“Here’s an article that backs up my opinions, just ignore the part i don’t agree withwith”

What part was I ignoring exactly?

The writer usually has a pretty good take on what the voters are thinking as they actually talk to them and get their comments and votes annynosuly like if the vote where to happen that day.

Like I said Celebrini is right now the overwhelming leader in the Calder race and I'd have Huston second, if someone else has Michkov 2nd and Lane 3rd it's not the end of the world but Celebrini is clearly the leader.

 

[JustAHabFan]

Sounds more like projection both on this and the other Hutson thread from some select Hab fans.

Lane is having a fine rookie season but some of the comments are just so out there and like an avalanche of not only optimism but extreme fandom.

Coupled with some of the takes in any Habs player being mentioned in any trade now would think that the Habs are the best team in the league right now or something.

some of my fellow Canuck fans are like this as well and I have never understood how blind they can be at times.


The article is dated today and the since the information was collected the Habs played a single game.

Lane is not having a fine rookie season. He is having a fantastic rookie season worthy of a Calder consideration. Regarding the best team, the Habs was very bad in the beginning but they are among the best team in the NHL in the last 10 games or so. The way the Habs play right now, we do have hope for a playoff spot.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Sounds more like projection both on this and the other Hutson thread from some select Hab fans.

Lane is having a fine rookie season but some of the comments are just so out there and like an avalanche of not only optimism but extreme fandom.

Coupled with some of the takes in any Habs player being mentioned in any trade now would think that the Habs are the best team in the league right now or something.

some of my fellow Canuck fans are like this as well and I have never understood how blind they can be at times.


The article is dated today and the since the information was collected the Habs played a single game.

if it is recent it should be disregarded completely

 

[Frank Drebin]

“Lane is having a fine rookie season”

Thanks for putting bias aside

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Bolded is why I can't take you seriously. It is closer than you think and a toss up at this point.

agree to disagree

 

[Zalos]

For those saying that Lane is having a "fine" rookie season, I'd like to remind you that the last time a rookie defenseman had 60+ points in his rookie year was in 1991-1992 (Nicklas Lidstrom).

Currently Lane is projecting above 60 points. His production has seriously increased since he has become a staple of the #1 PP.

Since Lidstrom, only Hughes and Makar have been producing at this rate (both of them missed a good number of games during their rookie year).

I get that some Habs fans are being a little over the top in this thread, but if Lane keeps this up it will definitely be one of the best rookie seasons by a defenseman. No arguing that.

I was confident before the start of the year, but I didn't expect him to do THIS well.

 

[wetcoast]

if it is recent it should be disregarded completely

Why, just because you don't like reality?

disagree if you want, I do with the second and 3rd place but the obvious outcome right now is a runaway leader in Celebrini.

“Lane is having a fine rookie season”

Thanks for putting bias aside

I'm not a absolute fanboi, if you want that look in the mirror or other Hab fans with the Bobby Orr stuff, frnakly it's emberassing.

Faber had a better rookie season last year and Lidstrom didn't win in his rookie season either yet a couple of guys still keep spouting off their opinions like somehow it matters more than what the voters usually do and currently think.

Bias is pretty clear if one is reading your posts here so your last point is really funny.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Why, just because you don't like reality?

Is your reality that its a two horse race between Michkov and Celebrini? Because that is what it says in the article you posted.

 

[wetcoast]

Is your reality that its a two horse race between Michkov and Celebrini? Because that is what it says in the article you posted.

You aren't even reading posts in this thread but now making stuff up so I'm not going to waste any more time with you here.

There are probably at least a half dozen posts where I have said that if I had a ballot today that Hutson would be second on my ballot.

My ballot has also clearly had Celebrini #1 for a couple of weeks now as well.

 

[waitin425]

agree to disagree

You're entitled to your opinion on who deserves it more to this point. Our opinions don't matter though. I'd be willing to bet that a poll of hockey writers to this point would be very close and not an "AINEC".

 

[Breakers]

Since Lidstrom, only Hughes and Makar have been producing at this rate (both of them missed a good number of games during their rookie year).

I get that some Habs fans are being a little over the top in this thread, but if Lane keeps this up it will definitely be one of the best rookie seasons by a defenseman. No arguing that.

I was confident before the start of the year, but I didn't expect him to do THIS well.

Both???

try the entire league their boss

 

[Frank Drebin]

Faber had a better rookie season last year and Lidstrom didn't win in his rookie season either yet a couple of guys still keep spouting off their opinions like somehow it matters more than what the voters usually do and currently think.

Lidstrom had 60 points in 80 games as a rookie dman. Good for 9th overall in dman scoring. A fine year indeed.

He finished second to Pavel Bure, who scored 34 goals and 60 points in 65 games. Pro rated to 82 games thats 43 goals and 76 points. (Recchi finished 9th in league scoring that year with 43 goals)

Maybe the voters have a bias towards forwards?

Faber may be a fine dman who had a fine rookie season but 8 goals and 47 points in 80 games to Bedards 61 in 68 doesn't really move the needle. And it doesn't matter if he didn't win or if his season was "better". Different year, different competition.

If both players continue on their current pace,

Celebrini would finish with 30G, 65 points in 70 games. Or pro rated to 35g/76pts over 82 games.

Hutson would finish with 6g 62 pts over 82 games. Good for 7th ALLTIME rookie defensemen for points. ALL TIME. 56 assists would put him second ALL TIME for rookie assist leaders behind Larry Murphy with 60. And he and his team have been trending up for the past month or so. I think he beats both those estimates.

Are you really trying to suggest that it wouldn't be close between the two of them?

You aren't even reading posts in this thread but now making stuff up so I'm not going to waste any more time with you here.

There are probably at least a half dozen posts where I have said that if I had a ballot today that Hutson would be second on my ballot.

My ballot has also clearly had Celebrini #1 for a couple of weeks now as well.

you keep ignoring the fact that you posted an article as some sort of proof that celebrini is the 90% favorite to win the calder. That same article says that its a two horse race between Michkov and Celebrini.

Speaking of not reading posts, you been ignoring this since I brought it up. Funnily enough, no mention of Hutsons rookie of the month for December?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

You're entitled to your opinion on who deserves it more to this point. Our opinions don't matter though. I'd be willing to bet that a poll of hockey writers to this point would be very close and not an "AINEC".

I feel like celebrini would get 90+%

 

[wetcoast]

Lidstrom had 60 points in 80 games as a rookie dman. Good for 9th overall in dman scoring. A fine year indeed.

He finished second to Pavel Bure, who scored 34 goals and 60 points in 65 games. Pro rated to 82 games thats 43 goals and 76 points. (Recchi finished 9th in league scoring that year with 43 goals)

Maybe the voters have a bias towards forwards?

Obviously the voters have a bias towards forwards, just like Hart voters have a bias towards forwards as well.

Faber may be a fine dman who had a fine rookie season but 8 goals and 47 points in 80 games to Bedards 61 in 68 doesn't really move the needle. And it doesn't matter if he didn't win or if his season was "better". Different year, different competition.

You seem to be really focused on just scoring stats here for some reason and sure the voters are as well but they obviously value Celebrini's 2 way game alot and I brought up Faber because he was doing some really heavy lifting last year and his narrative was also excellent.

When Bedard went down and the black Hawks saw their scoring go down considerably that help that year as well.

If both players continue on their current pace,

Celebrini would finish with 30G, 65 points in 70 games. Or pro rated to 35g/76pts over 82 games.

Hutson would finish with 6g 62 pts over 82 games. Good for 7th ALLTIME rookie defensemen for points. ALL TIME. 56 assists would put him second ALL TIME for rookie assist leaders behind Larry Murphy with 60. And he and his team have been trending up for the past month or so. I think he beats both those estimates.

Are you really trying to suggest that it wouldn't be close between the two of them?

Yes that's what I'm suggesting because that's where the voters are right now and like I said my vote is right now and assuming trajectories for everyone, so nothing dramatic like an injury.

but who knows maybe Montreal stumbles then decides to trade Mathieson and Hutson leads the Habs to the playoffs that's something that might change the narrative and voters minds.

you keep ignoring the fact that you posted an article as some sort of proof that celebrini is the 90% favorite to win the calder. That same article says that its a two horse race between Michkov and Celebrini.

Speaking of facts here is what the article said from actual voters.

"After finishing second to Michkov in the December NHL Awards Watch, Celebrini pulled nearly 90% of the first-place votes from our panelists to take control of the rookie of the year race."

That vote kind of supports my feelings on the race so far this year in Celebrini being the clear leader so far with 90% of the vote, maybe Michkov's single first place vote was the difference between him and Hutson I dunno but either way both guys as per the article are far behind Celebrini..

Speaking of not reading posts, you been ignoring this since I brought it up. Funnily enough, no mention of Hutsons rookie of the month for December?
View attachment 957728

I haven't been ignoring it as the thread is for the Calder race and all of my thoughts are always year to date.

Also why are you quoting something that is mostly about Wolf, whom I have also spoken about, with Hutson being the NHL's rookie of the month so I';m not even sure where you are going with this.

I feel like celebrini would get 90+%

I guess he didn't read the ESPN article either eh?

After finishing second to Michkov in the December NHL Awards Watch, Celebrini pulled nearly 90% of the first-place votes from our panelists to take control of the rookie of the year race.

These are the sample votes form actual voters.

 

[Frank Drebin]

You seem to be really focused on just scoring stats here for some reason and sure the voters are as well but they obviously value Celebrini's 2 way game alot and I brought up Faber because he was doing some really heavy lifting last year and his narrative was also excellent.

The calder trophy is probably the most shallow trophy that is also subjective in the nhl

If you don’t have good counting stats you’re not going to win, unless no one else in the field has good counting stats. Then it goes to a player that does “heavy lifting “ or whatever you want to call it. Definitely a bias towards high picks

Its a meaningless trophy.

All that said I’m not sure celebrini is having the best rookie season to date

 

[wetcoast]

The calder trophy is probably the most shallow trophy that is also subjective in the nhl

Sure maybe , although the Selke might be a bit as well and the Lady Byng is what it is.

If you don’t have good counting stats you’re not going to win, unless no one else in the field has good counting stats. Then it goes to a player that does “heavy lifting “ or whatever you want to call it

Well all trophies kind of rely on counting stats and Faber didn't win when he was doing all that heavy lifting last year so Dmen are generally behind the 8 ball in Calder voting..

Its a meaningless trophy.

For a meaningless trophy you sure seem to spending a lot of time on it.

All that said I’m not sure celebrini is having the best rookie season to date

I'll take the voters and my viewings on this one.

 

[ole ole]

Sure maybe , although the Selke might be a bit as well and the Lady Byng is what it is.




Well all trophies kind of rely on counting stats and Faber didn't win when he was doing all that heavy lifting last year so Dmen are generally behind the 8 ball in Calder voting..



For a meaningless trophy you sure seem to spending a lot of time on it.


I'll take the voters and my viewings on this one.

So you will agree with the voters if they start switching to Lane?

 

[wetcoast]

So you will agree with the voters if they start switching to Lane?

If they switch to Lane over Celebrini then there will be obvious reasons why right?

If that happens it will probably be because of injury so sure, assuming Michkov doesn't go off and even if he does this funk really hurts his case this year.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I'll take the voters and my viewings on this one.

ah yes, the infallible phwa.

 

[wetcoast]

ah yes, the infallible phwa.

Opposed to what you are offering as a fan yes.

But like I said my Calder choices right now are based on my own views and feelings on the matter and I don't have a dog in the race.

 

[Jamaican Patty]

Right now the Calder is a toss up between Hutson & Mack. I’m leaning towards Hutson but that can change.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Opposed to what you are offering as a fan yes.

But like I said my Calder choices right now are based on my own views and feelings on the matter and I don't have a dog in the race.

You do have a dog in the race, you’re just pretending you don’t

 

[HitHard]

Lidstrom had 60 points in 80 games as a rookie dman. Good for 9th overall in dman scoring. A fine year indeed.

He finished second to Pavel Bure, who scored 34 goals and 60 points in 65 games. Pro rated to 82 games thats 43 goals and 76 points. (Recchi finished 9th in league scoring that year with 43 goals)

Maybe the voters have a bias towards forwards?

Faber may be a fine dman who had a fine rookie season but 8 goals and 47 points in 80 games to Bedards 61 in 68 doesn't really move the needle. And it doesn't matter if he didn't win or if his season was "better". Different year, different competition.

If both players continue on their current pace,

Celebrini would finish with 30G, 65 points in 70 games. Or pro rated to 35g/76pts over 82 games.

Hutson would finish with 6g 62 pts over 82 games. Good for 7th ALLTIME rookie defensemen for points. ALL TIME. 56 assists would put him second ALL TIME for rookie assist leaders behind Larry Murphy with 60. And he and his team have been trending up for the past month or so. I think he beats both those estimates.

Are you really trying to suggest that it wouldn't be close between the two of them?

you keep ignoring the fact that you posted an article as some sort of proof that celebrini is the 90% favorite to win the calder. That same article says that its a two horse race between Michkov and Celebrini.

Speaking of not reading posts, you been ignoring this since I brought it up. Funnily enough, no mention of Hutsons rookie of the month for December?
View attachment 957728

This.

Hutson has a trajectory to rewrite more than 100 years History in his rookie debuts.

I’m fine with Celebrini, but 25 minutes defenceman with those points > Great rookie forward.