Epic Calder Battle in 2024-25 Season

[Kshahdoo]

14 points in 15 games is more impressive. And with 7 points in his last 4 games he looks like he's heating up and may leave all the other rookies in the dust. Not a slight on Michkov, he's very talented and I have him firmly in third after Celebrini and Wolf.

Well, Michkov had 9 points in 8 games which was even more impressive... And Stankoven has 1 point in the last 6 games after he had 14 points in 15 games.

 

[Bank Shot]

Oh he's talking about the same Celebrini that gets way better usage, plays with much better players 5v5, and doesn't play with 3rd and 4th line plugs? A Penguin fan thats unwilling to admit anything about a Flyers prospect, shocking. Yeah, no thanks, Michkov is superior offensively to Celebrini no matter how you slice it and the advanced statistics back that up. You can say PP merchant all you want, the Flyers PP was the worst in the NHL last year and now somehow its respectable running through a 19 year old, me thinks Michkov is the straw stirring the drink.

I dunno why people think Celebrini isn't a premier scoring talent.

He led the USHL in scoring at 16.

Then he was 3rd in NCAA scoring at 17. The other 4 guys in the top five all played for the same team.

Now he's nearly point per game in the NHL at 18. His shooting volume is pretty incredible with 47 shots in 15 games.

Looks like the sky is the limit for this kid.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I dunno why people think Celebrini isn't a premier scoring talent.

He led the USHL in scoring at 16.

Then he was 3rd in NCAA scoring at 17. The other 4 guys in the top five all played for the same team.

Now he's nearly point per game in the NHL at 18. His shooting volume is pretty incredible with 47 shots in 15 games.

Looks like the sky is the limit for this kid.

Of course Celebrini is a premier scoring talent. But if I count here all Michkov's records in junior and professional leagues, I'll get a much longer list. So let's talk about NHL.

 

[one2gamble]

Oh he's talking about the same Celebrini that gets way better usage

I mean, that's because he's a better hockey player

 

[luiginb]

I mean, that's because he's a better hockey player

Better all around player, Michkov might end up putting up better offensive numbers when it's all said and done. I have him above Stankoven who I also love.

 

[bossram]

He has more even strength points than power play points. But people with agenda's like you, don't take about ESP and move the goal posts to 5on5, as if his 3 overtime goals at 3v3 aren't significantly more impactful and important than a 5on5 secondary assist Celebrin, Stankoven or Hutson picks up.

5on5 points aren't more important than 3v3 points or 4v4 points, or PPP, they all count.

I'm not moving the goalposts at all. You just lack the ability to assemble a coherent argument.

I've been talking about 5v5 points the whole time. Not "Even strength" points, which include 3v3, and which I've already been talking about separately because it is an entirely different game state. 3v3 isn't real hockey, and being good at it (which Michkov is) is not in any way a representation of a player's actual playing ability.

I weigh 5v5 more points more heavily (and I've been saying this all along), because they are the the primary game state in hockey and most representative of a player's quality.

Learn to reason better instead of making up arguments I never made.

 

[Soul Assumption]

'm not moving the goalposts at all. You just lack the ability to assemble a coherent argument.

I've been talking about 5v5 points the whole time. Not "Even strength" points, which include 3v3, and which I've already been talking about separately because it is an entirely different game state. 3v3 isn't real hockey, and being good at it (which Michkov is) is not in any way a representation of a player's actual playing ability.

I weigh 5v5 more points more heavily (and I've been saying this all along), because they are the the primary game state in hockey and most representative of a player's quality.

Learn to reason better instead of making up arguments I never made.

I agree that 5 on 5 is the only thing that matters, that's why Barbashev is currently twice as good a player as Nathan Mackinnon and I don't think anyone will deny it.

 

[ViD]

As soon as Michkov is moved away from Tippett and is reunited with TK, this race is over

 

[OverTheLine]

Let me preface this by saying I love Michkov and think he’s probably going to win this race, partly because I think he’s the real deal and partly because his task in Philly is a little simpler than Celebrini’s, who has a more complicated role and I think will inevitably be more likely to hit some rookie bumps and slumps and go on cold streak given the challenges of being tasked as a defensively responsible center against top line competition. I just think Michkov is more likely to be consistent given his additional pro experience, slightly older age, and more straightforward role (and his immense offensive talent).

That being said… the stuff about overtime goals makes no sense. Obviously a GWG in 5on5 even strength regulation is more valuable than a 3on3 overtime goal. Winning in regulation denies your opponents points, which is beneficial to your teams standings, and 3on3 overtime doesn’t exist in the playoffs and therefore is not a good measure of how a player will perform in the only time of the year that truly matters (ask Sharks fans how they feel about all the regular season accolades they racked up in the past decades). Overtime winners are fun for the fans, but a manager should always prefer a player who wins it in regulation. It’s better hockey.

 

[bossram]

I agree that 5 on 5 is the only thing that matters, that's why Barbashev is currently twice as good a player as Nathan Mackinnon and I don't think anyone will deny it.

logical

I say, "I weigh 5v5 points more heavily", and you claim that I said, "only 5v5 points count".

This is why I keep saying you guys have no ability to present a coherent, logical argument. You can't reason properly and literally argue against stuff no one said.

 

[Soul Assumption]

Winning in regulation denies your opponents points, which is beneficial to your teams standings

What if it's an opponent from another conference or they're not a playoff contender anyway?

3on3 overtime doesn’t exist in the playoffs and therefore is not a good measure of how a player will perform in the only time of the year that truly matters (

Regular season performance is not a good measure of playoff performance in general. You can score a bunch of 5 on 5 points, score 70 goals and then get eliminated in the first round.

 

[67 others]

I dunno why people think Celebrini isn't a premier scoring talent.

He led the USHL in scoring at 16.

Then he was 3rd in NCAA scoring at 17. The other 4 guys in the top five all played for the same team.

Now he's nearly point per game in the NHL at 18. His shooting volume is pretty incredible with 47 shots in 15 games.

Looks like the sky is the limit for this kid.

Draft rating hype fatigue.

They can't rub one out every year and say "franchise changing generational candidate". They have to skip certain years. They blew their wads on Bedard vs Michkov hype the year before and slowed it down the next year.

Celebrini was almost a boring shoe in in a hype fatigued environment. Comparing a guy to Toews with better scoring because of his two way game and leadership is fun, but isn't as sexy as "may break scoring records".

Everyone knew he was going 1OA and so they spent more time talking about if Demidov will be as good as Michkov, and which Dman will go highest. His historic season in U wasn't really focused on. There was no "what if". He was the undisputed 1 OA and that was that.

While Demidov was getting Michkov comparisons, Celebrini was going 1st ahead of him AINEC, but somehow it wasn't hyped up lol