Epic Calder Battle in 2024-25 Season

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You must have missed the part where i said every game including the head to head.

Michkov should have 6 points more than he does from unsustainable low on ice shooting percentage and puck luck while playing mostly on the 3rd line, Celebrini plays 1st line every game and 3 minutes more a night with unsustainable high on ice shooting percentage suggesting he's 3 points over expected.

Then there's the eye test, if you watch the games, both players, it's immediately evidence the difference in IQ and skill level.

Celebrini is the better skater and that's all.
Celebrini plays with much better linemates and more minutes
Michkov has scores at the higher rate P60 despite that

He's just better and in time these Celebrini vs
Bedard vs Michkov polls will look extremely silly. Celebrini isn't on their level.

I didn't miss that part, I'm just highlighting how the head to head matchup is meaningless.

Also confused how you are coming up with 6 more points. He's been on the ice for 27 goals vs 22.3 xG.

 

[Sasso09]

With all due respect to Stankoven, Hutson, and Michkov who are having excellent seasons, this is going to come down to Celebrini and Wolf.

With all due respect Michkov was the favorite from the start and is still the favorite vs the entire field combined.

I didn't miss that part, I'm just highlighting how the head to head matchup is meaningless.

I didn't miss that part, I'm just highlighting how the head to head matchup is meaningless.

"what kind of argument is that based on one game sample size" suggests that you didn't


What kind of response is that?

Of course, it’s only Michkov who should get better…

Seriously, my claim was not based on points as much as on the learning curve that Mack has been on.

You think Mack, who played NA all his life is on a bigger learning curve than Michkov who has to live in an entirely different culture and play an vastly different style of hockey?

You'd be wrong.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

With all due respect Michkov was the favorite from the start and is still the favorite vs the entire field combined.



"what kind of argument is that based on one game sample size" suggests that you didn't


What kind of response is that?

I bolded the part of your argument that didn't make any sense. It dilutes the argument chain.

Beyond that I'm still confused how you are coming up with 6 more points. Michkov has been on the ice for 27 goals vs 22.3 xG.

 

[Sasso09]

Never underestimate the 200 foot game. If points are close between him and Mack, it will go to Mack. MM is pretty bad in his own end so he will need to really pile it on offensively. I’m curious which player will have the stamina to keep it up.

MM has been better in his own end than Celebrini according to most numbers. Neither have been good.

200 ft player is a myth

Hot take: Celebrini is funner to watch than Michkov.

That's not a hot take, that's just admitting you don't want them both

 

[CaptainShark]

Have the Russian troll factories found their way to HF-Boards or what is happening here?

I have no problem with people taking Michkov and he is a heck of a player who has had a really impressive start, but some of the posts in here are so onesided and agenda-driven, it makes me wonder

 

[Sasso09]

Michkov should have had 2 tap-ins for primary assists last night. He's lost at least 5 primary assists this season due to his teammates shitting the bed.

expected stats suggest he lost out on 6 of them to be exact. It's definitely frustrating.

I make it a point to watch every single game from the Flyers, Sharks, Stars, Ducks and Habs this year with center ice DVR

Michkov is in a league of his own with these rookies.

You can say that for all of these guys I'm sure

Not true, Celebrini has high puck luck and is 3 points higher than expected, Hutson and Stankoven are right at expected, Cutter Gauthier has had poor puck luck though and should be 3 higher than he is.

 

[Sasso09]

I've seen 4-5 Flyers games this season. Michkov's been excellent at 3v3.

I don't even get this comment. I'm not saying Michkov is playing bad or good. No value judgement. It was just a statement of fact. Or am I wrong and does he have actually have like 15 5v5 points?

He has more even strength points than power play points. But people with agenda's like you, don't take about ESP and move the goal posts to 5on5, as if his 3 overtime goals at 3v3 aren't significantly more impactful and important than a 5on5 secondary assist Celebrin, Stankoven or Hutson picks up.

5on5 points aren't more important than 3v3 points or 4v4 points, or PPP, they all count.

 

[SjMilhouse]

Have the Russian troll factories found their way to HF-Boards or what is happening here?

I have no problem with people taking Michkov and he is a heck of a player who has had a really impressive start, but some of the posts in here are so onesided and agenda-driven, it makes me wonder

Been thinking the same thing. This is bot farm level posting

 

[coooldude]

Guys, he watches the games. We should all stop arguing with him. Michkov should win the trophy and probably the Hart, too.

 

[SjMilhouse]

Guys, he watches the games. We should all stop arguing with him. Michkov should win the trophy and probably the Hart, too.

Put him in the HHOF, I've seen enough

 

[Herschel]

I think the question of usage is justified when comparing Celebrini and Michkov but it isn't as simple as Michkov would have more points if he was playing first line minutes, the reality is no NHL coach is going to trust Michkov to play first line minutes, at this point.

If they swapped teams, I see Torts giving Celebrini a bigger role than Michkov due to his 200 foot game and attention to details. Conversely, if he played for the Sharks, Michkov would likely see usage similar to Smith, which isn't all that different from what Michkov gets now.

Going to be a fun race to watch. I'd bet on Celebrini at this point.

 

[Sasso09]

Lol what? Stars are a deep team which means less opportunity for them. Stankoven's linemates are struggling big time right now too.

Truth is, Michkov and Celebrini would likely have worse numbers if they were on Dallas right now. Powerplay is horrendous and 3 forwards besides Stankoven are producing (and they all play on one line). Celebrini may be fine but Michkov would be struggling cause the Stars PP would not be pumping his numbers that's for sure

Do a laughing emoji to this post if you agree

But for real, the Stars PP is dreadful. Not sure why people think those rookies would produce more when the Stars top 3 forwards aren't producing well right now because of it

You're out of your mind if you think this.

Celebrini and Michkov both score far more in Dallas and Stankoven would be under 10 points in SJ or PHI

i can't tell if you're serious

 

[Patty Ice]

Michkov had the same ppg at the same amount of games with worse usage and line mates, make it make sense?

I can see the excuses already SHOULD Celebrini win.

 

[Sasso09]

Dustin Wolf needs to be in this discussion as of today. He's pulled a mediocre team, whose top two scorers are defensemen pacing for around 50 points this year, with expectations of being on the outside looking in, into the playoff race, and only a couple of points out of the division lead.

He's a goalie, so he won't win it while other legitimate options exist, but he needs to be in the conversation.

Problem with Wolf is that Vladar is also having a great year, suggesting what we all already know. Goaltending is system based.

Yeah we know.

That's a few more games than you watched of Michkov

 

[Sasso09]

I think Celebrini is comfortably leading for the Calder right now.

Vegas disagrees very hardly

Matvei Michkov: 17 points in 22 games
Macklin Celebrini: 13 points in 14 games

I don't really feel like "Michkov is better offensively" argument quite holds any water.

If you watch hockey instead of read numbers it does.

No one thinks Celebrini is as good offensively, no one serious

To add to this, celebrini has 11 even strength points and 2 powerplay points.

Michkov has 8 even strength points and 9 powerplay points.

Which means what?

 

[Sasso09]

3 game winning goals also for Celebrini.

Not the same thing, Celebrini scoring the 3rd goal in the 3nd period on a game they win 5-2 is meh.

3 OT game winners

Michkov has more than 3 game winners in total, Celebrini is an automatic vehicle, no clutch

 

[Barrie22]

Not the same thing, Celebrini scoring the 3rd goal in the 3nd period on a game they win 5-2 is meh.

3 OT game winners

Michkov has more than 3 game winners in total, Celebrini is an automatic vehicle, no clutch

Game winning goals means game winning goals, michkov has 3, celebrini has 3.

 

[Sasso09]

[mod] 2 players who are on pace for 66 points each respectively (counting games missed as of today) and saying the one that has played 8 more games to reach that point is miles better offensively.

Celebrini on pace for 65 points
Michkov on pace for 68 points

Michkov after his first 15 games played was on pace for 77 points.

Game winning goals means game winning goals, michkov has 3, celebrini has 3.

You're wrong, like you have been this entire thread.

A team going up 2-0 in the 1st period and holding on to the lead adn winning 2-1 at the end, that GWG on the 2nd goal is not equal or close to a GWG in OT.

Michkov has 3 GWG in OT, take a seat

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Not the same thing, Celebrini scoring the 3rd goal in the 3nd period on a game they win 5-2 is meh.

3 OT game winners

Michkov has more than 3 game winners in total, Celebrini is an automatic vehicle, no clutch

Impressive to see a neutral Hawks fan going to bat for a Flyers player like this.

Though I remember back in the day, you were able to put your Hawks fandom aside and go to bat for Giroux when he was being compared to Toews. So, I commend you for being able to stay so objective over the years. Good stuff!

 

[Sasso09]

Impressive to see a neutral Hawks fan going to bat for a Flyers player like this.

Though I remember back in the day, you were able to put your Hawks fandom aside and go to bat for Giroux when he was being compared to Toews. So, I commend you for being able to stay so objective over the years. Good stuff!

Giroux was just a better player than Toews, that's all that was.


And right now i see Michkov as surpassing Bedard. I don't expect that to last for very long, i think order will be restored and all the Bedard hating will look silly by seasons end. Michkov and Celebrini have much more to play with than Bedard but Bedard scoring 5 goals over 34 games is alarming.

Respect

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Vegas disagrees very hardly


If you watch hockey instead of read numbers it does.

No one thinks Celebrini is as good offensively, no one serious


Which means what?

I don't care.

 

[JPT]

I don't care.

Yes but does Vegas care? Have you considered that?

 

[Barrie22]

Celebrini on pace for 65 points
Michkov on pace for 68 points

Michkov after his first 15 games played was on pace for 77 points.

Did you remember to take away michkovs 2 games in the press box?

Celebrini .93 point/game
Michkov .83 point/game

San jose 55 games left.
Philly 57 games left.

.93 x 55 = 51.15 more points
.93 x 57 = 47.31 more points

51+14 = 65 points
47+19 = 66 points

And again that is with celebrini missing 8 more games then michkov if they finish the season playing all the teams games left.

So again, the michkov is miles ahead offensively doesn't make sense.

Celebrini on pace for 65 points
Michkov on pace for 68 points

Michkov after his first 15 games played was on pace for 77 points.


You're wrong, like you have been this entire thread.

A team going up 2-0 in the 1st period and holding on to the lead adn winning 2-1 at the end, that GWG on the 2nd goal is not equal or close to a GWG in OT.

Michkov has 3 GWG in OT, take a seat

So nhl.com is wrong, michkov some how has missing game winning goals that only you can see?

 

[Shark Finn]

Damn I wish it had been Bedard vs. Michkov last year.

Regards,
The 8th Sharks fan

 

[JPT]

TIL a game-winning goal means way more if you just say it does.