Post-Game Talk: End of the Shanascam? | Leafs Blown Out at Home Again

[Tak7]

Moving 34 and 88, and 44 for fair market value, make a couple of impactful UFA signings, let 16 and 91 walk we’d be as competitive as we are now AND have a chance of playoff success

All sounds good in theory.

BUT - 34, 88, and 44 all have trade protection, which potentially harms your ability to get "market value" for them in return. 44 in particular, have to wonder just what sort of market is available for someone who is coming off a pretty poor year. With 34 and 88 having massive contracts and trade protection, the only way you get a deal done is by moving them to contenders, and those contenders can't get those deals done unless they are moving some money back, which likely hampers your ability to make a great trade.

Impactful UFA signings? Not this summer. Have you seen how poor this summer's UFA pool is? Given the way the cap is going up, we should circle this summer as one where teams are going to make so many more expensive mistakes than normal.

Might just be the overall mood today - but I really have a hard time envisioning how the Leafs actually get better, and turn themselves into an actual playoff contender. Feels like the moment they refused to move Marner in 2023 before the NMC kicked in, was the moment the window shut on any reasonable expectation that this project could be turned into a cup challenging one.

 

[Just Rude]

Moving 34 and 88, and 44 for fair market value, make a couple of impactful UFA signings, let 16 and 91 walk we’d be as competitive as we are now AND have a chance of playoff success

What is "fair market value"? Rival GMs would be salivating at the thought of trading for 34 with three years term left (not to mention the NTC for 34 and 88). Matthews' value will never be lower than it is right now.

Agree with letting 16 and 91 walk, and even moving on from 44. How does moving 34 and 88 make us better? How are we "as competitive."?

Do people forget in UFA you are bidding against the rest of the league? And the UFA class isn't exactly loaded this year.

Imagine the Leafs next year without 34, 88, 16 and 91. That's 143 G and 338 P. The only assets we get back are for 34 and 88 (and they will dictate where they go), and maybe a minimal return for 44. You won't have to worry about the playoffs. The season will be over in February.

 

[Fogelhund]

By now I’m convinced we’ve seen the ceiling of their playoff trajectory……..

Are you speaking of our guys, or McDrai?

At this stage, Marner certainly doesn't appear to have what it takes in the playoffs.

Tavares is on the decline, and moreso in the playoffs. He had a great regular season this year though.

Nylander had a reasonably good playoffs, though no points over the last four games.

Matthews is injured again, and I'm looking forward to hearing what the problem is. He's been injured all season. This is getting chronic.

Rielly... whatever, it's time to move on.

-----------------------

So, moving forward...

Tavares... happy to have him as a 3rd line C. He wants to stay, I think he'd be an asset on a contract LESS than $5 mil. I'm really thinking a number that starts with a $4... Despite the regular season production, we need to look at post season, and build for that. He'd be a very good 3C.

Nylander... he's ours, produced well for much of the playoffs... not so much for the last four games. I don't think we'd be successful in getting rid of everyone... he's streaky, always has been... I'm wondering how much he'd benefit from a different C, and better LW.

Matthews... The chronic injury issues really concern me... and they did earlier this year, when it became apparent he wasn't the same. I wonder if both he AND Marner are the issue, or if it's more Marner, and Matthews away from Marner would be better. We won't be able to replace him, or even close... and that gives me some pause for concern in moving him. Then again, at this rate, he likely walks in a few years, and we get nothing. If he plays poorly again next year, or is injured, his stock falls. I think it's hard to walk away from an Elite C... but I think if you can make a good hockey trade, you have to consider it.

Marner... Rielly... Jarnkrok.. Kampf... all gone... absolutes for me.

Matthews... gone for the right deal.

Knies XXXX Nylander
XXXX XXXX XXXX
McMann Tavares Domi
Lorentz Laughton XXXX

XXXX Carlo
McCabe Tanev
OEL XXXX
Benoit

Knies 8 years x $7.22
Tavares 4 years x $4.5

$38.5 million in Cap space... of course, we'd get players in return for guys traded possibly...

This is kind of my base.

 

[notbias]

We have some of the dumbest fans for sure... imagine being this emotional over sports.

Also, those fans were probably so upset because this keeps happening, yet they went to the game regardless with hope, idiots.

 

[Zack47]

I think if our guys elevated their games, like McDrai, there would be less call for changes, even if we hadn't won a cup... I'd agree there.

No one is going to "elevate their games". Stop thinking that way. They are what they are. Do you ever just look at it and say "there is all the evidence sitting there in front of us, time to decide?"

 

[Fogelhund]

No one is going to "elevate their games". Stop thinking that way. They are what they are. Do you ever just look at it and say "there is all the evidence sitting there in front of us, time to decide?"

I think you are looking for a reason to post nothing at all. That's pretty much exactly what I said, particularly if you've read other posts.

 

[Zack47]

Are you speaking of our guys, or McDrai?

At this stage, Marner certainly doesn't appear to have what it takes in the playoffs.

Tavares is on the decline, and moreso in the playoffs. He had a great regular season this year though.

Nylander had a reasonably good playoffs, though no points over the last four games.

Matthews is injured again, and I'm looking forward to hearing what the problem is. He's been injured all season. This is getting chronic.

Rielly... whatever, it's time to move on.

-----------------------

So, moving forward...

Tavares... happy to have him as a 3rd line C. He wants to stay, I think he'd be an asset on a contract LESS than $5 mil. I'm really thinking a number that starts with a $4... Despite the regular season production, we need to look at post season, and build for that. He'd be a very good 3C.

Nylander... he's ours, produced well for much of the playoffs... not so much for the last four games. I don't think we'd be successful in getting rid of everyone... he's streaky, always has been... I'm wondering how much he'd benefit from a different C, and better LW.

Matthews... The chronic injury issues really concern me... and they did earlier this year, when it became apparent he wasn't the same. I wonder if both he AND Marner are the issue, or if it's more Marner, and Matthews away from Marner would be better. We won't be able to replace him, or even close... and that gives me some pause for concern in moving him. Then again, at this rate, he likely walks in a few years, and we get nothing. If he plays poorly again next year, or is injured, his stock falls. I think it's hard to walk away from an Elite C... but I think if you can make a good hockey trade, you have to consider it.

Marner... Rielly... Jarnkrok.. Kampf... all gone... absolutes for me.

Matthews... gone for the right deal.

Knies XXXX Nylander
XXXX XXXX XXXX
McMann Tavares Domi
Lorentz Laughton XXXX

XXXX Carlo
McCabe Tanev
OEL XXXX
Benoit

Knies 8 years x $7.22
Tavares 4 years x $4.5

$38.5 million in Cap space... of course, we'd get players in return for guys traded possibly...

This is kind of my base.

Benoit deserves more credit. He was better than Carlo and Rielly and McCabe in these playoffs. Just watch him play. I don't get the dissing of this guy. Forget the background. It doesn't matter. He's a force on the ice.

 

[rumman]

Are you speaking of our guys, or McDrai?

At this stage, Marner certainly doesn't appear to have what it takes in the playoffs.

Tavares is on the decline, and moreso in the playoffs. He had a great regular season this year though.

Nylander had a reasonably good playoffs, though no points over the last four games.

Matthews is injured again, and I'm looking forward to hearing what the problem is. He's been injured all season. This is getting chronic.

Rielly... whatever, it's time to move on.

-----------------------

So, moving forward...

Tavares... happy to have him as a 3rd line C. He wants to stay, I think he'd be an asset on a contract LESS than $5 mil. I'm really thinking a number that starts with a $4... Despite the regular season production, we need to look at post season, and build for that. He'd be a very good 3C.

Nylander... he's ours, produced well for much of the playoffs... not so much for the last four games. I don't think we'd be successful in getting rid of everyone... he's streaky, always has been... I'm wondering how much he'd benefit from a different C, and better LW.

Matthews... The chronic injury issues really concern me... and they did earlier this year, when it became apparent he wasn't the same. I wonder if both he AND Marner are the issue, or if it's more Marner, and Matthews away from Marner would be better. We won't be able to replace him, or even close... and that gives me some pause for concern in moving him. Then again, at this rate, he likely walks in a few years, and we get nothing. If he plays poorly again next year, or is injured, his stock falls. I think it's hard to walk away from an Elite C... but I think if you can make a good hockey trade, you have to consider it.

Marner... Rielly... Jarnkrok.. Kampf... all gone... absolutes for me.

Matthews... gone for the right deal.

Knies XXXX Nylander
XXXX XXXX XXXX
McMann Tavares Domi
Lorentz Laughton XXXX

XXXX Carlo
McCabe Tanev
OEL XXXX
Benoit

Knies 8 years x $7.22
Tavares 4 years x $4.5

$38.5 million in Cap space... of course, we'd get players in return for guys traded possibly...

This is kind of my base.

if Mathews is injured he shouldn't have participated in the 4Nations, that's how selfish he is...........

 

[rumman]

What is "fair market value"? Rival GMs would be salivating at the thought of trading for 34 with three years term left (not to mention the NTC for 34 and 88). Matthews' value will never be lower than it is right now.

Agree with letting 16 and 91 walk, and even moving on from 44. How does moving 34 and 88 make us better? How are we "as competitive."?

Do people forget in UFA you are bidding against the rest of the league? And the UFA class isn't exactly loaded this year.

Imagine the Leafs next year without 34, 88, 16 and 91. That's 143 G and 338 P. The only assets we get back are for 34 and 88 (and they will dictate where they go), and maybe a minimal return for 44. You won't have to worry about the playoffs. The season will be over in February.

I don't care above padded regular season stats, I care about playoff stats, you know when things really count and the points aren't easy to get.............

 

[Just Rude]

I don't care above padded regular season stats, I care about playoff stats, you know when things really count and the points aren't easy to get.............

Again, you won't have to worry about playoff stats. They won't make the playoffs with 34 and 88 gone with the others.

 

[Fogelhund]

if Mathews is injured he shouldn't have participated in the 4Nations, that's how selfish he is...........

I said that before the 4Nations, and completely agree.... Clearly that was more important for him, than the team. Sad.

 

[notbias]

if Mathews is injured he shouldn't have participated in the 4Nations, that's how selfish he is...........

Shouldn't have played a regular season game if it made it worse...

I guess the team didn't think playing made it worse.

 

[rumman]

Lundell,

Again, you won't have to worry about playoff stats. They won't make the playoffs with 34 and 88 gone with the others.

you don't know that, or do you have Kreskin abilities?

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I'm not sure ours coast, as much as they just aren't any good at it. They just don't have that next level.

Also, McDrai have yet to win anything of significance either... I mean, they've been more successful than us, but still haven't won a cup. It wouldn't shock me, if they won this year though.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I get what you're saying, but McDavid just came off won of the greatest playoffs for an individual in the league's history having won the Conn Smythe even on the losing team. Draisaitl has been a rock star in the playoffs.

Winning the Cup is hard, especially now that there are 32 teams. Some really good players will end up never winning anything of significance. But it's all about performance. If Matthews and Marner carrier the team or showed up for a Game 7 or two, a lot of the fingerpointing will be relieved from them in which we say they did all they could do.

The knock against McDrai is that management has never surrounded them with the depth and supporting cast required to win it all. Here in Toronto, it's that our big guys haven't and don't know how to elevate their game come crunch time. Big difference. There's still time, but it sucks that the prime years of these guys are starting to pass by with very little to show for it.

 

[Fogelhund]

Benoit deserves more credit. He was better than Carlo and Rielly and McCabe in these playoffs. Just watch him play. I don't get the dissing of this guy. Forget the background. It doesn't matter. He's a force on the ice.

It's all about upgrading the lineup as much as you can. I can appreciate what Benoit did in the playoffs, and still say we can upgrade. He played hard, and provided a lot of value for what he's paid... but he's really nothing more than what he is.

In my mocks, I've signed Provorov, and traded for Brandt Clarke (Matthews to LA.. +Byfield + Greentree). Benoit isn't better than any of the six above him.

 

[Just Rude]

you don't know that, or do you have Kreskin abilities?

No, it's called common sense.

I'll say it again for those in the back: no 16, 91, 34, 88 and 44, this team doesn't make the playoffs next year, especially when you consider we are getting no return for 16 or 91.

 

[Stephen]

Pete is another softy like the rest of them.

Petey doesn’t sound like a teammate you’d want to have in the room.

 

[Stephen]

Benoit deserves more credit. He was better than Carlo and Rielly and McCabe in these playoffs. Just watch him play. I don't get the dissing of this guy. Forget the background. It doesn't matter. He's a force on the ice.

I thought McCabe turned into a bit of a wallflower out there and was a lot more quiet as Tanev’s sidekick than adding any special attributes. He was solid but didn’t have that snarl or presence as much as you would have thought.

Benny pushed the play and I think has untapped upside. His skating just seems to get better and his confidence with the puck is interesting. Don’t give him too long a leash but let him cook.

Carlo was solid but broke the hell down with Rielly at the end of the Florida series like Bruins fans kept talking about. I think he’s good on the whole but I wouldn’t mind investing in an Ekblad and then sliding out one of Carlo or McCabe in a hockey trade for something different on D.

 

[Fogelhund]

Shouldn't have played a regular season game if it made it worse...

I guess the team didn't think playing made it worse.

I suspect it didn't make things worse... it just wasn't going to get better either. I suspect we'll hear of some surgery that will see him sidelined for months.

 

[Fogelhund]

I thought McCabe turned into a bit of a wallflower out there and was a lot more quiet as Tanev’s sidekick than adding any special attributes. He was solid but didn’t have that snarl or presence as much as you would have thought.

Benny pushed the play and I think has untapped upside. His skating just seems to get better and his confidence with the puck is interesting. Don’t give him too long a leash but let him cook.

Carlo was solid but broke the hell down with Rielly at the end of the Florida series like Bruins fans kept talking about. I think he’s good on the whole but I wouldn’t mind investing in an Ekblad and then sliding out one of Carlo or McCabe in a hockey trade for something different on D.

McCabe was injured, and missed games near the end of the season... injured in the Columbus game... April 5th? I think he was playing hurt.

Everyone breaks down beside Rielly.

 

[notbias]

I suspect it didn't make things worse... it just wasn't going to get better either. I suspect we'll hear of some surgery that will see him sidelined for months.

Hoping until the 2026 playoffs... time it like the other teams that cheat the cap.

But I don't think 4 nations is an issue if it doesn't make it worse (or better by sitting).

 

[Ports]

10 years?!? No chance. I run out the original 5.

10 years is so they can pay him 66% of what he’s owed over 10 years instead of the five years left on his contract. That means a payout of $2.5M a year which is to benefit the team. You want a slower more useless Rielly making $7.5M as your sixth defenseman for the next five years ? Good luck with that.

 

[GoonieFace]

Ys

Again, you won't have to worry about playoff stats. They won't make the playoffs with 34 and 88 gone with the others.

Carolina is in the ECF. They lost Necas and Rantanen, and their goalie is Fredrik Andersen. Anything is possible if you have a “team”, and not a collection of individuals.

 

[Fogelhund]

Ys
Carolina is in the ECF. They lost Necas and Rantanen, and their goalie is Fredrik Andersen. Anything is possible if you have a “team”, and not a collection of individuals.

1.36 Goals against average. That's a team built around strong team D. Imagine making Freddy Andersen look good?

 

[GoonieFace]

1.36 Goals against average. That's a team built around strong team D. Imagine making Freddy Andersen look good?

Yep strong D and speed on offence. They forecheck relentlessly. Leafs forward group lacks speed