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Elmira Coming Back To Minor League Hockey????

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Hit Em Hoss

Registered User
Nov 23, 2021
14
5
Apparently Elmira may be making some kind of return to minor league hockey. Today the IDA agreed to a deal to lease the arena to some group called Tadross Donner Sports Entertainment LLC. I tried to do a Google searvh on them and nothing came up really except articles on this news. There is no real details known at this time except there will be a press conference at First Arena next Wednesday at 1pm where they plan to outline the plans for the future. Sounds like the same sales pitch from day 1 of the project.

First Arena gets new lease, avoiding demolition concerns
 
If they do bring back hockey, it's gotta be the Fed, right? The Coast isn't going back to Elmira. The only other option would be the SP expanding the footprint again just to snipe another Fed market. In order to do that, they'd have to get way more teams in the WV-PA-NJ-NY-OH area to make it worth it.
 
Oh gosh this is set up to be a clown show. Steve Donner who is adored in Rochester by sports fans I guess. This guy is old and hasn't lived in upstate NY in years. Has no ties to Elmira at all. The other guy is some B list Hollywood producer who apparently stiffed some out of over $1 million a few years back.

Here is a kicker. They broke the New York State Open Neeting Policy with the 72 hour notice. They blamed a calrucal error. Lol this just sounds fishy.

By no means am I fan of Robbie Nichols in the slightest but why is a guy who has zero ties to the area, living in Florida want to lease an arena in upstate NY that is not in the Buffalo or Rochester area? Why didn't they just buy it? All strange.

Who is the new operator of First Arena?
 
SemireliableSource said:
If they do bring back hockey, it's gotta be the Fed, right? The Coast isn't going back to Elmira. The only other option would be the SP expanding the footprint again just to snipe another Fed market. In order to do that, they'd have to get way more teams in the WV-PA-NJ-NY-OH area to make it worth it.
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Can't say if this is actually the case but I did read someone write on one of the news pages that even though the Jackals got folded the franchise still exists to the point it could be brought back? It was folded allegedly by a perspective buyer who was going to buy everything then backed out. The county owned everything at the time. The guy was gunna fold the team and create a new expansion team. The Jackals had a lot of debt.

The only crazy theory that would exist with this guy having the Rochester and Buffalo connection he brings back a team and props it up and somehow is still connected to the Buffalo higher ups to buy it. I know too many Jackals fans since 2012 til about the last days of them who wanted the buffalo guy to buy it all. I don't think that would be good either. The Sabres have been a laughingstock and the Americans are a far cry from their glory days.
 
SemireliableSource said:
If they do bring back hockey, it's gotta be the Fed, right? The Coast isn't going back to Elmira. The only other option would be the SP expanding the footprint again just to snipe another Fed market. In order to do that, they'd have to get way more teams in the WV-PA-NJ-NY-OH area to make it worth it.
Click to expand...
One other possible option is they start an NAHL east division team?

It's probably a real long shot chance of that though. But that might be the way to go for that market.
 
Hit Em Hoss said:
Can't say if this is actually the case but I did read someone write on one of the news pages that even though the Jackals got folded the franchise still exists to the point it could be brought back? It was folded allegedly by a perspective buyer who was going to buy everything then backed out. The county owned everything at the time. The guy was gunna fold the team and create a new expansion team. The Jackals had a lot of debt.

The only crazy theory that would exist with this guy having the Rochester and Buffalo connection he brings back a team and props it up and somehow is still connected to the Buffalo higher ups to buy it. I know too many Jackals fans since 2012 til about the last days of them who wanted the buffalo guy to buy it all. I don't think that would be good either. The Sabres have been a laughingstock and the Americans are a far cry from their glory days.
Click to expand...

No. The Jackals Membership was terminated by the ECHL. The ECHL is transparent about which memberships still exist as inactive teams. Elmira is not one of them.

Jackals bid farewell this weekend
 
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Well there's two issues here. Steve Donner filed bankruptcy in Florida in 2014 for $9.5 million dollars what's to say that he skips out paying the bills and this movie producer guy who I've never even heard of ( the movies were good but he was an assistant producer for them not the main) doesn't have a background here in Elmira either jumps ship and everything goes downhill? Your going to pay $30 for a Fphl ticket according to what I've been reading in different articles if this guy puts on a team. The feds are the only league that is going to play not sp, not echl, not even ahl. For one FA is not big enough for ahl. Rumors say the there is a team thats being given to Donner to use FA so he doesn't have to brand and buy a team. If that's not fishy then I don't know what to tell ya. Best of luck. I think it's going to be one big clown show
 
NotSooooFast said:
Well there's two issues here. Steve Donner filed bankruptcy in Florida in 2014 for $9.5 million dollars what's to say that he skips out paying the bills and this movie producer guy who I've never even heard of ( the movies were good but he was an assistant producer for them not the main) doesn't have a background here in Elmira either jumps ship and everything goes downhill? Your going to pay $30 for a Fphl ticket according to what I've been reading in different articles if this guy puts on a team. The feds are the only league that is going to play not sp, not echl, not even ahl. For one FA is not big enough for ahl. Rumors say the there is a team thats being given to Donner to use FA so he doesn't have to brand and buy a team. If that's not fishy then I don't know what to tell ya. Best of luck. I think it's going to be one big clown show
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If you read the story about Donner's bankruptcy filing, it's pretty clear that he got some bad advice. Yes, he claimed $17K in assets against $9.5M in debts. He likely personally guaranteed loans to the sports businesses he was involved with, which was error No. 1. Secondly, if those businesses were organized as partnerships, which makes the partners potentially liable for debts incurred by both the business and by the other partners in running the business, that was error No. 2.

Bankruptcy laws exist to give people (and corporations) a chance to restructure their financial lives and start over. At this point, Donner's previous debts have been discharged and he should be able to seek out credit again, especially via a new corporate form.

Hopefully he won't make the same mistakes all over again.
 
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Checkers Hockey said:
I would rather see junior hockey in Elmira than the Fed. Fed teams usually don't have a long lifespan.
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The Junior Enforcers started up last year and are still active but I believe Nichols owns them? They're playing at the Murray Athletic Center this year home of the DIII Soaring Eagles.
 
NotSooooFast said:
Well there's two issues here. Steve Donner filed bankruptcy in Florida in 2014 for $9.5 million dollars what's to say that he skips out paying the bills and this movie producer guy who I've never even heard of ( the movies were good but he was an assistant producer for them not the main) doesn't have a background here in Elmira either jumps ship and everything goes downhill? Your going to pay $30 for a Fphl ticket according to what I've been reading in different articles if this guy puts on a team. The feds are the only league that is going to play not sp, not echl, not even ahl. For one FA is not big enough for ahl. Rumors say the there is a team thats being given to Donner to use FA so he doesn't have to brand and buy a team. If that's not fishy then I don't know what to tell ya. Best of luck. I think it's going to be one big clown show
Click to expand...

Lee Corso! Lol I couldn't resist.

I too think this is all strange and will just not go well. I'm not sure what Steve Donner has to gain at this juncture. Why did they break the state meetings rule? Who owed who a favor? What's this really about? The strange thing is the lease is unspecified and they act like they might not be ready to go by next fall? I'm sure we will find out something next week with a press conference ahead. I was never a big Robbie Nichols guy but it makes you wonder why they didn't let him come back when he wanted to and all they did was basically give it to some other party who is leasing it with the same idea. They probably have more money is my only thought.

Wonder what team he will be given and from what league? I saw the news snippet and on the audio the IDA leader said there will be hockey and that was the last thing they played of audio from him.
 
Hit Em Hoss said:
The Junior Enforcers started up last year and are still active but I believe Nichols owns them? They're playing at the Murray Athletic Center this year home of the DIII Soaring Eagles.
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Nichols does NOT own the Jr Enforcers he only owns The Enforcers but not the Junior team. I'm very close to both owners.
 
Just curious, why can't the ECHL come back to Elmira? If someone wants to go through the process and make it work, I have to assume the ECHL would be open to it considering how well it fits geographically. It's a small barn with limited revenue opportunities, but Wheeling is still in the league. So why not Elmira?
 
Timjohnson said:
Just curious, why can't the ECHL come back to Elmira? If someone wants to go through the process and make it work, I have to assume the ECHL would be open to it considering how well it fits geographically. It's a small barn with limited revenue opportunities, but Wheeling is still in the league. So why not Elmira?
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ECHL seized all of its operations when the jackals shutdown. The way the league works is once a team has been in a city and then seize operations they won't come back. It's from lessons learned. The jackals were in Elmira for years but kept changing ownership from hand to hand so they won't go through it again.
 
NotSooooFast said:
ECHL seized all of its operations when the jackals shutdown. The way the league works is once a team has been in a city and then seize operations they won't come back. It's from lessons learned. The jackals were in Elmira for years but kept changing ownership from hand to hand so they won't go through it again.
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Why would the league hold that against a new ownership group that had nothing to do with the previous problems? I'm sure if a new group came in that was well respected and well funded, the league would give that city another chance.
 
Timjohnson said:
Why would the league hold that against a new ownership group that had nothing to do with the previous problems? I'm sure if a new group came in that was well respected and well funded, the league would give that city another chance.
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I honestly can't answer that. I just know that was what said before the FPHL came into Elmira
 
NotSooooFast said:
ECHL seized all of its operations when the jackals shutdown. The way the league works is once a team has been in a city and then seize operations they won't come back. It's from lessons learned. The jackals were in Elmira for years but kept changing ownership from hand to hand so they won't go through it again.
Click to expand...
This makes no sense. ECHL returned to Greenville after the Grrrowl had a less than successful run towards the end. Jacksonville also got a second team, alebit many, many years after the Lizard Kings departed.
 
Timjohnson said:
Just curious, why can't the ECHL come back to Elmira? If someone wants to go through the process and make it work, I have to assume the ECHL would be open to it considering how well it fits geographically. It's a small barn with limited revenue opportunities, but Wheeling is still in the league. So why not Elmira?
Click to expand...

Because Wheeling is the exception to the rule. They are owned by a joint venture of the Ohio Valley Industrial & Business Development Corporation and the Wheeling Amateur Hockey Association. So a youth hockey entity and entity that exists to develop local businesses tied to fans attending Nailers games. They also have a very close affiliation help from Pittsburgh less than 90 minutes away. Wheeling loses money, but they're essentially a non-profit. They have multiple factors helping them exist that Elmira wouldn't have.
 
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So... the First Arena is going to stay as a shithole?

Cause frankly I would consider giving the venue important renovations first and foremost before we go "Alright, time to put another team here!"
 
jabberoski said:
This makes no sense. ECHL returned to Greenville after the Grrrowl had a less than successful run towards the end. Jacksonville also got a second team, alebit many, many years after the Lizard Kings departed.
Click to expand...

Both time and money have to play a part. The league doesn't want flops or, God forbid, mid-season foldings (they had three), so if a market fails, then the league considers it a lost cause unless investors make a strong enough case to come back, particularly since we're no longer in the minor league hockey boom period of the 90s and early 2000s anymore. Which is probably why the old footprint that dominated the league of the 1990s and places like Louisville and Lexington and Huntington, WV are not desirable anymore.
 
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