Player Discussion Elias Pettersson | The Forward. Not the defensemen.

[JT Milker]

You silly thing.

Many if the reasons you listed are about the players.

Why are you so actively campaigning against Pettersson? Why not just admit that you are incapable of making an objective assessment of this player and raining your emitonal posting back?

Irony.

 

[iFan]

Trading Pettersson would be mind bogglingly dumb.

Depends on the return, from the returns we’re seeing it looks like it wouldn’t be the best decision. Pettersson game has fallen off a cliff since he signed that new deal, he needs to start playing up to the standards of a 11m dollar player. He makes more than Hughes, he should have the same impact on the team that Hughes does. Hughes doesn’t rely on others to make him better, he makes everyone better.

 

[ExarKun80]

Depends on the return, from the returns we’re seeing it looks like it wouldn’t be the best decision. Pettersson game has fallen off a cliff since he signed that new deal, he needs to start playing up to the standards of a 11m dollar player. He makes more than Hughes, he should have the same impact on the team that Hughes does. Hughes doesn’t rely on others to make him better, he makes everyone better.

Hughes will make 14-15 on his next deal. I'm sure you guys will jump on him next when he does not put at least PPG.
I understand why in general canadian star players avoid playing in Canada like it's the plague. The fans + the media are unbearable and extremely impatient.

 

[iFan]

Hughes will make 14-15 on his next deal. I'm sure you guys will jump on him next when he does not put at least PPG.
I understand why in general canadian star players avoid playing in Canada like it's the plague. The fans + the media are unbearable and extremely impatient.

If Hughes is making 14+ million a year and disappears then he would have criticism on whatever team he plays for. If Pettersson was playing on another team with his 11 million cap hit and his current play fans on every other team would be on him for it. Look at Boston fans with Lindholm and Zadorov. When you go for top dollar pay day, you’re expected to live up to the contract.

 

[Hodgy]

He was played tonight with a minor leaguer (Karlsson) and a struggling player who has been healthy scratched and mostly can't be trusted defensively.

He also played several shifts, with those wingers, with some combination of Desharnais (who f***ing suuuuuucks), D-Petey (who impressed me, but it's his first NHL game), or Forbort.

But "hurr durr he makes 11.6 million, why isn't he dangling the whole team like a Disney movie".

Being clear, his linemates and useage aren't the only reasons he's struggled, but his injury, his usage, and the way he's being used to hide bad D who can't move the puck are all conspiring to rob him of his confidence and he's been far less dynamic than we need him to be.

To be fair, it’s a real knee jerk reaction to criticize his linemates after just one game when in reality he’s played with a combination of Debrusk, Garland and sometimes Boeser throughout the whole year. So he’s definitely getting exposure to our best wingers, and arguably, is getting the most exposure to our best winger in Garland.

The Hughes / defensive pairing he plays with is a reasonable gripe though. Haven’t seen the up to date numbers on the Hughes usage split between Petey and Miller but I assume it favours Miller. But Miller is making 68% of what Petey is making, so Petey shouldn’t need the same support.

But getting back to his linemates last night, that was clearly the result: an exasperated Tochett that is willing to try anything to get this team going; and Pettersson playing poorly for a prolonged stretch of time with good wingers. And it may have been a message to Perttersson as well. And frankly, for this one game, I can’t fault Tochett.

With that all said, Pettersson scoring like a 55 point player while making 11.6 million per year and Tochett coaching can only exist for so long.

 

[racerjoe]

To be fair, it’s a real knee jerk reaction to criticize his linemates after just one game when in reality he’s played with a combination of Debrusk, Garland and sometimes Boeser throughout the whole year. So he’s definitely getting exposure to our best wingers, and arguably, is getting the most exposure to our best winger in Garland.

The Hughes / defensive pairing he plays with is a reasonable gripe though. Haven’t seen the up to date numbers on the Hughes usage split between Petey and Miller but I assume it favours Miller. But Miller is making 68% of what Petey is making, so Petey shouldn’t need the same support.

But getting back to his linemates last night, that was clearly the result: an exasperated Tochett that is willing to try anything to get this team going; and Pettersson playing poorly for a prolonged stretch of time with good wingers. And it may have been a message to Perttersson as well. And frankly, for this one game, I can’t fault Tochett.

With that all said, Pettersson scoring like a 55 point player while making 11.6 million per year and Tochett coaching can only exist for so long.

I don’t think it’s the reason we haven’t seen good Petey, and it shouldn’t be a primary excuse, but the problem is going from Hughes, to any other dman on this team is just too big of a difference. Like he absolutely should be better… but holly crap is that a big difference.

 

[Bobby9]

You silly thing.

Many if the reasons you listed are about the players.

Why are you so actively campaigning against Pettersson? Why not just admit that you are incapable of making an objective assessment of this player and raining your emitonal posting back?

Im not emotionally invested at all which is why im able to make the connections you’re unable too. I am looking from a business perspective.

It’s interesting. From my end I’m just evaluating the player and not making endless excuses for him like many posters

He is a nightmare employee as he always has an issue preventing him from doing what he is paid to do.

Exceptional toolbox but much to high maintenance to ever put it together for long periods of time.

Needs to be chalked up to a ‘what if’ and cut loose before his NMC kicks in

 

[Bobby9]

Hughes will make 14-15 on his next deal. I'm sure you guys will jump on him next when he does not put at least PPG.
I understand why in general canadian star players avoid playing in Canada like it's the plague. The fans + the media are unbearable and extremely impatient.

Yes. Absolutely people SHOULD.

If you’re making 14 M and you disappear and go from 95 points to sub 45 and don’t make the team better why wouldn’t you be open to fan and management criticism?

Are you actually advocating for players to play poorly post a raise?

 

[sting101]

Pettersson is 57th in TOI/GP for forwards.

Tonight he got 15:11 while playing with Linus Karlsson and Nils Hoglander

Meanwhile, Pius Suter got 18:02 of icetime.

At what point do we question why Tocchet is using him like a 3rd liner? Go compare the usages of every 10mill+ forward in the league with Pettersson, it's not even close.

Did you watch the Edmonton game?

 

[Bobby9]

Depends on the return, from the returns we’re seeing it looks like it wouldn’t be the best decision. Pettersson game has fallen off a cliff since he signed that new deal, he needs to start playing up to the standards of a 11m dollar player. He makes more than Hughes, he should have the same impact on the team that Hughes does. Hughes doesn’t rely on others to make him better, he makes everyone better.

That’s all people are saying. At 11.6M he should make the same impact Hughes makes on the ice.

Why are people defending his inability to do that?

 

[crowfish]

You earn ice time

It could be that, or Tocchet is a donkey whose coaching scheme is offensive cancer

 

[Lenny Levino]

He is a nightmare employee as he always has an issue preventing him from doing what he is paid to do.

Exceptional toolbox but much to high maintenance to ever put it together for long periods of time.

Exaggerating. He's been worth his paycheck except this last year. If he wasn't an $11m player last year, he wouldn't have gotten that offer.

There are essentially two ways you can deal with it:

1. You trade him right now (at his lowest value) in exchange for a decent 2C and 4D. It would probably improve the team slightly, at least in the short term. The down side is we wouldn't have the assets necessary to compete for the cup anymore. So if we choose this option, we should also consider trading Hughes asap to get as much as possible for him when his value is high. It would essentially mean rebuilding the team from scratch and hope to compete again in 5-7 years from now. We could probably get several really promising prospects and first round picks in exchange for both Petey and Quinn Hughes.

2. You keep EP and do whatever it takes to get him back to what he was before he got injured last season. If it means giving him some time off (maybe missing the Playoffs this year could actually be a blessing), or something else, I don't know. But if he could come back as peak Petey next season, then we're only one or two pieces away from being a contender. If Petey had been in shape last playoffs, we could've actually won the cup. Remember we almost beat the Oilers with Silovs in goal. Now if Petey comes back in form, we could then re-sign Hughes and keep our core. We could even trade Petey then for a really good player (which we cannot do right now since no team would give up something like Rantanen or Dahlin for the current EP).

Yes, the second option is a risk. But the first option essentially means good-bye to the whole core and starting over from scratch.

We must do everything we can do get EP back in shape. It's basically on him now regarding how the next half a decade plays out for the Canucks.

 

[Bobby9]

Exaggerating. He's been worth his paycheck except this last year. If he wasn't an $11m player last year, he wouldn't have gotten that offer.

There are essentially two ways you can deal with it:

1. You trade him right now (at his lowest value) in exchange for a decent 2C and 4D. It would probably improve the team slightly, at least in the short term. The down side is we wouldn't have the assets necessary to compete for the cup anymore. So if we choose this option, we should also consider trading Hughes asap to get as much as possible for him when his value is high. It would essentially mean rebuilding the team from scratch and hope to compete again in 5-7 years from now. We could probably get several really promising prospects and first round picks in exchange for both Petey and Quinn Hughes.

2. You keep EP and do whatever it takes to get him back to what he was before he got injured last season. If it means giving him some time off (maybe missing the Playoffs this year could actually be a blessing), or something else, I don't know. But if he could come back as peak Petey next season, then we're only one or two pieces away from being a contender. If Petey had been in shape last playoffs, we could've actually won the cup. Remember we almost beat the Oilers with Silovs in goal. Now if Petey comes back in form, we could then re-sign Hughes and keep our core. We could even trade Petey then for a really good player (which we cannot do right now since no team would give up something like Rantanen or Dahlin for the current EP).

Yes, the second option is a risk. But the first option essentially means good-bye to the whole core and starting over from scratch.

We must do everything we can do get EP back in shape. It's basically on him now regarding how the next half a decade plays out for the Canucks.

I don’t disagree w you but I don’t believe he can CONSISTENTLY be that person we see every 8-10 months

 

[Coffee]

I don’t disagree w you but I don’t believe he can CONSISTENTLY be that person we see every 8-10 months

Then it’s time for blind faith

 

[ExarKun80]

Depends on the return, from the returns we’re seeing it looks like it wouldn’t be the best decision. Pettersson game has fallen off a cliff since he signed that new deal, he needs to start playing up to the standards of a 11m dollar player. He makes more than Hughes, he should have the same impact on the team that Hughes does. Hughes doesn’t rely on others to make him better, he makes everyone better.

You won't get a decent return on him right now when he is in a slump. Playing him with 3rd and 4th liners makes is it even worse. The season is compromised and a 1st round exit is the best we can hope for. Just load up his line with Brock and Debrusk.

I have a problem with Rick's style of hockey. It's designed for teams with little talent like Arizona and even there it worked for 1/3 years. Unlike AV, who changed his hockey style after Gillis had a talk with him in 2008, Rick seems to keep going with his brand of hockey. It functioned last year because the defence was good and everything worked well for us untill the end of the season. You have to adapt your style to the players you have and not the other way around. That's what a good coach does.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Depends on the return, from the returns we’re seeing it looks like it wouldn’t be the best decision. Pettersson game has fallen off a cliff since he signed that new deal, he needs to start playing up to the standards of a 11m dollar player. He makes more than Hughes, he should have the same impact on the team that Hughes does. Hughes doesn’t rely on others to make him better, he makes everyone better.

Hughes is underpaid.

Pettersson is playing injured.

 

[iFan]

You won't get a decent return on him right now when he is in a slump. Playing him with 3rd and 4th liners makes is it even worse. The season is compromised and a 1st round exit is the best we can hope for. Just load up his line with Brock and Debrusk.

I have a problem with Rick's style of hockey. It's designed for teams with little talent like Arizona and even there it worked for 1/3 years. Unlike AV, who changed his hockey style after Gillis had a talk with him in 2008, Rick seems to keep going with his brand of hockey. It functioned last year because the defence was good and everything worked well for us untill the end of the season. You have to adapt your style to the players you have and not the other way around. That's what a good coach does.

Then the problem isn’t Ricks system, the problem is in the D man the management group gave him. I know this isn’t popular to say but I think we have a great coaching staff, Rick and Adam are cup winners and solid NHLers, we also have the Sedins kicking around. If the problem is a weak group on D that we need to hold our offence back then management needs to give Tocchet better D man to work with.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Im not emotionally invested at all which is why im able to make the connections you’re unable too. I am looking from a business perspective.

It’s interesting. From my end I’m just evaluating the player and not making endless excuses for him like many posters

He is a nightmare employee as he always has an issue preventing him from doing what he is paid to do.

Exceptional toolbox but much to high maintenance to ever put it together for long periods of time.

Needs to be chalked up to a ‘what if’ and cut loose before his NMC kicks in

Nobody posts as much about a single player while not EXTREMELY emotionally invested.

It cant be good for you.

 

[Kryten]

Hughes is underpaid.

Pettersson is playing injured.

Hughes is actually playing injured

 

[iFan]

Hughes is underpaid.

Pettersson is playing injured.

Pettersson play hasn’t been good for a year now, it can’t all be blamed on an injury.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Pettersson play hasn’t been good for a year now, it can’t all be blamed on an injury.

What do you blame the rest on?

 

[Bobby9]

Nobody posts as much about a single player while not EXTREMELY emotionally invested.

It cant be good for you.

I feel great actually.

I feel fine because his play is supporting my position.

He’s not the dynamic 100 point player you think he is.

Currently he is the player I am talking about.

You can’t pay people based on past play for 8 years. That’s insane

 

[beachcomber]

This guy is going to lead us through 4 grueling rounds of playoff hockey. Book it

4 rounds spread over the next ten years maybe.

 

[iFan]

What do you blame the rest on?

He’s in his head, not preparing himself. It’s been said management hasn’t been happy with Pettersson offseason training, he doesn’t seem to be taking it serious. This same thing happened with Kuz, he busted his ass to get into the NHL, got a payday and didn’t train well enough in the offseason, spent the offseason partying which lead to a horrible season. Sounds like something similar with Pettersson. I don’t doubt he had some kinda of injury last season but this is something all players go through.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

To be fair, it’s a real knee jerk reaction to criticize his linemates after just one game when in reality he’s played with a combination of Debrusk, Garland and sometimes Boeser throughout the whole year. So he’s definitely getting exposure to our best wingers, and arguably, is getting the most exposure to our best winger in Garland.

The Hughes / defensive pairing he plays with is a reasonable gripe though. Haven’t seen the up to date numbers on the Hughes usage split between Petey and Miller but I assume it favours Miller. But Miller is making 68% of what Petey is making, so Petey shouldn’t need the same support.

But getting back to his linemates last night, that was clearly the result: an exasperated Tochett that is willing to try anything to get this team going; and Pettersson playing poorly for a prolonged stretch of time with good wingers. And it may have been a message to Perttersson as well. And frankly, for this one game, I can’t fault Tochett.

With that all said, Pettersson scoring like a 55 point player while making 11.6 million per year and Tochett coaching can only exist for so long.

I think the team has done a lot over the past few months to "send a message to Petterson" and it really doesn't help at all, if anything it seems to make it worse.

Petey I feel is a different kind of person, the traditional method (like calling him out publicly, being tough on him, etc) probably doesn't work on him. He went to the next level offensively under Bruce, I don't get why they don't handle him like Bruce suggested.