Player Discussion Elias Pettersson - Please, Be Civil

[arttk]

Here's a take that isn't based in stats or facts, and is entirely anecdotal. Back when the team was in a will they/won't they between who to sign or trade with Miller and Horvat, I thought it should be Miller then, because Pettersson strikes me as the type of player who's better when he's the guy.

Of course Miller elevated his game and changed my opinion drastically. But I come back to it, I thought they should trade Miller so that the team could become EPs and everything would run through him (and Hughes) i think he excels in that position and having Miller there kind muddled it. He willingly took a backseat to the louder voice, bigger personality, etc.

If Miller goes maybe he'll adapt. Or he'll stay the same frustrating player he's been this season, outside of some glimmers.

I don't know, even in hindsight, moving Bo and letting Hughes take on a leadership role has really propelled him to new heights.

 

[rypper]

I don't know, even in hindsight, moving Bo and letting Hughes take on a leadership role has really propelled him to new heights.

Definitely.

Not taking anything away from that and never wanted Pettersson to be the captain. Hughes was always the right call.

But EP being the top dog in the forward group is what I'm talking about.

 

[Bleach Clean]

No Man the main issue here is that even as outwardly alpha and graining as Miller can be Pettersson is the only core piece that has had such issue that it spilled over into being unable to play with each other. If you all were happy with the OEL Eriksson Virtanen entitlement retirement community than i can see why Miller being so outwardly driven to win would be offensive

Just because Pettersson says he wants to stay (and might just want to get the control he desires by doing so) doesn't make him some loyal soldier when he has been culpable.

As far as 10 games Pettersson has been missing for 80 games? If the players knew he was going through health issues more than the "off ice stuff" Hughes referenced in his interview why would they be defending and supporting Miller??

MS got some info from me. I'm not gonna devolve sources and you can throw shots if you want i dont care but i know a couple people connected and shared some info in private they told me to him before. I'm only saying anything because he's been getting lit up for it unfairly. Don't expect it from me in this type of setting....moving along

MS is getting lit up for far more than this supposed intel.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying here: Miller leaves the team for 10 games, which is unprecedented, Hughes supports him because he realizes Miller left due to health issues (injury) and not because he was censured by the team?

Pettersson has been culpable for creating the rift, but has asked to stay in order to get NMC control. Miller has been culpable in creating the rift, but is willingly relinquishing NTC control because he's the only one driven to win and he sees Pettersson as a Country Club repeat of OEL, Eriksson, Horvat, Virtanen etc...

Have I interpreted you correctly?

 

[arttk]

Definitely.

Not taking anything away from that and never wanted Pettersson to be the captain. Hughes was always the right call.

But EP being the top dog in the forward group is what I'm talking about.

yeah but we wouldn't be able to make Hughes captain if Bo is still around.

 

[pitseleh]

MS got some info from me. I'm not gonna devolve sources and you can throw shots if you want i dont care but i know a couple people connected and shared some info in private they told me to him before. I'm only saying anything because he's been getting lit up for it unfairly. Don't expect it from me in this type of setting....moving along

Not saying you’re wrong but if this is the case I find the team’s approach to the issue really hard to understand. For a group that seems to have done a good job overall, it means they bungled it on this critical one.

 

[andora]

How else would you interpret what has been shown? That he doesn't want to leave but has been entertaining trade calls from other teams? I'm genuinely curious here.

If they have asked him to leave and he does not want to go, he has an NTC he can invoke. Right? He can say, I'm not going anywhere. Correct?

At a certain point, refusing to infer anything is suspect. You end up being further away from the truth/are putting the blinders on.

you serious?

your first paragraph makes no sense - curious of what? me being able to say those things don't automatically equal him choosing to leave?

your second paragraph - yes and yes

third paragraph - this is just making shit up. you can infer things all you want but it is clinically inaccurate to state as fact, such as 'the guy who is choosing to leave'.

this is all i'm taking issue with, and you did this before with the pettersson contract stuff and i think on something else. stating things as absolutes when nothing factual is available outside of if you either know the person / work for the team. then you go down these weird twisted roads of trying to .. i don't know philosophically sell me or others on the fact that if it's a little of this, maybe some of that, and he guessed this then it's unreasonable to believe anything other than THIS..

 

[Bleach Clean]

you serious?

your first paragraph makes no sense - curious of what? me being able to say those things don't automatically equal him choosing to leave?

your second paragraph - yes and yes

third paragraph - this is just making shit up. you can infer things all you want but it is clinically inaccurate to state as fact, such as 'the guy who is choosing to leave'.

this is all i'm taking issue with, and you did this before with the pettersson contract stuff and i think on something else. stating things as absolutes when nothing factual is available outside of if you either know the person / work for the team. then you go down these weird twisted roads of trying to .. i don't know philosophically sell me or others on the fact that if it's a little of this, maybe some of that, and he guessed this then it's unreasonable to believe anything other than THIS..

I'm serious. What is your interpretation of the information thus far regarding Miller's intent to leave?

When I say it stands to reason, providing the contrast between Miller/Pettersson, you state that it's fair. Yet it cannot be absolute? Ok. Then what can we take as a given in order to come to a conclusion? What you're saying is don't come to a logical conclusion based upon the inferences we can reasonably make. It's an odd standard here.

If all you're looking for is "He's open to leaving" instead of "He's choosing to leave", you have it now. He's not choosing to stay by invoking his NTC, which is the point.

Can you reference the exact "Pettersson contract stuff" I came to a conclusion on that was proven incorrect on the balance of the information? I'd like to know what you're talking about specifically.

 

[Icebreakers]

The team really has an issue scoring goals. If you lose Miller and Boeser, youre #2 center is Suter and youre #1 winger is Garland. Garland isnt a goal scorer.

You would think they go big in free agency.

Ehlers

Maybe Bennett

There arent too many intriguing names that are available.

 

[andora]

I'm serious. What is your interpretation of the information thus far regarding Miller's intent to leave?

When I say it stands to reason, providing the contrast between Miller/Pettersson, you state that it's fair. Yet it cannot be absolute? Ok. Then what can we take as a given in order to come to a conclusion? What you're saying is don't come to a logical conclusion based upon the inferences we can reasonably make. It's an odd standard here.

If all you're looking for is "He's open to leaving" instead of "He's choosing to leave", you have it now. He's not choosing to stay by invoking his NTC, which is the point.

Can you reference the exact "Pettersson contract stuff" I came to a conclusion on that was proven incorrect on the balance of the information? I'd like to know what you're talking about specifically.

I don't have any interpretation of Miller's intent to leave or not I don't have a damn clue about his intent as does no one else. If we're going on what's been reported is that he hasn't asked and they haven't asked so who the hell knows.

I don't feel the need to come to a conclusion when it's not even concluded.

He's not choosing to stay by invoking his no trade clause? Did something new come out in the last day? Did something come out that contradicted the statements that neither the team or himself have asked?

And no I'm not digging back wasting time going through post to try and find what I remember happening, maybe I inferred incorrectly I don't know

 

[racerjoe]

I don't have any interpretation of Miller's intent to leave or not I don't have a damn clue about his intent as does no one else. If we're going on what's been reported is that he hasn't asked and they haven't asked so who the hell knows.

I don't feel the need to come to a conclusion when it's not even concluded.

He's not choosing to stay by invoking his no trade clause? Did something new come out in the last day? Did something come out that contradicted the statements that neither the team or himself have asked?

And no I'm not digging back wasting time going through post to try and find what I remember happening, maybe I inferred incorrectly I don't know

Not to insert myself too much, but latest rumours and I stress rumours, but from good sources have said he did ask to be traded.

 

[andora]

Not to insert myself too much, but latest rumours and I stress rumours, but from good sources have said he did ask to be traded.

And that notably would change things from my perspective - that from today i assume?

I havent looked since about 7 this morning

 

[F A N]

Not to insert myself too much, but latest rumours and I stress rumours, but from good sources have said he did ask to be traded.

When did this "latest" rumour come about? I think Dhaliwal (source being Miller's agent) the other day said that Miller didn't ask for a trade.

In terms of the timeline, I'm more inclined to believe that the Canucks decided to trade Miller, has been shopping him around, has given teams permission to speak with Miller and his agent, and if Miller did ask for a trade it was following all of that.

 

[racerjoe]

And that notably would change things from my perspective - that from today i assume?

I havent looked since about 7 this morning

When did this "latest" rumour come about? I think Dhaliwal (source being Miller's agent) the other day said that Miller didn't ask for a trade.

In terms of the timeline, I'm more inclined to believe that the Canucks decided to trade Miller, has been shopping him around, has given teams permission to speak with Miller and his agent, and if Miller did ask for a trade it was following all of that.

Yes it came out today, I can’t remember who first reported it, but I know Biznasty reposted it. I will have to look see if I can find the original and good sources.

 

[geebster]

Yes it came out today, I can’t remember who first reported it, but I know Biznasty reposted it. I will have to look see if I can find the original and good sources.

Only source I can find is Biz himself. Other than the Friedman comments from yesterday (where he said his understanding was that Miller requested a trade), I don't see widespread reporting on it.

Wouldn't be surprised and he's been the guy most likely to quit on his teammates so he's been the clear odd one out for a while. But we've had false rumours about trade requests before in this market.

 

[racerjoe]

Only source I can find is Biz himself. Other than the Friedman comments from yesterday (where he said his understanding was that Miller requested a trade), I don't see widespread reporting on it.

Wouldn't be surprised and he's been the guy most likely to quit on his teammates so he's been the clear odd one out for a while. But we've had false rumours about trade requests before in this market.

I know I read it here, but it was a twitter quote, and since I don’t have twitter it has been very hard to find.

 

[December5th]

we know that petterson takes things extremely personal. remember that interview someone posted, how hughes says its like walking on egg shells to not hurt his feelings. he said one night they were hanging out and hughes zoned out onto his phone and didnt respond to one of his questions or replies, then petey was upset with him for the next day and ignored him to get his revenge. lol i think petey has a bit of the tism

 

[credulous]

my take is that when it's reported a player DID NOT request a trade it means they made it known they are unhappy and want out but didn't go so far as to actually make it official. mostly because of the negative perception and the finality of doing so. so did miller request a trade? probably not but only because he didn't need to

 

[Quinton Byfield]

Only source I can find is Biz himself. Other than the Friedman comments from yesterday (where he said his understanding was that Miller requested a trade), I don't see widespread reporting on it.

Wouldn't be surprised and he's been the guy most likely to quit on his teammates so he's been the clear odd one out for a while. But we've had false rumours about trade requests before in this market.

Did Friedman not first report that, but later recanted, saying his sources said Miller/his camp had not requested a trade?

I’d say it makes more sense that the Canucks have been quiet shopping or at least gauging the value of both Pettersson/Miller, because it’s literally what they did. It was reported on.

Pete was called out by his own GM mere weeks ago for his effort and commitment in the off-season.

This is a management group that does not seem to be able to keep their mouths shut about their own players. Asking Boeser to score 50, questioning Brock’s effort level after he scored 40. Shopping both Brock and Garland in the past. Making their agents find a trade on their own behalf.

A normal group does not gauge two of its player’s trade values, ‘just to see’. They don’t speak on whether the core is good enough so publicly.

I don’t think people realize how uncommon it is for a management group to be in the headlines this frequently. The Rachel Dorrie/Castonguay stuff. Your own captain calling out Pearson’s injury being mishandled. Forcing Demko to come back too soon.

How you feel about the whole Miller debacle will depend on your personal opinion on Miller. But to me, management is clearly complicit in it all as well. And their impatience and lack of decor is unbecoming. We’re just not at that stage where we question their actions yet.

 

[F A N]

Only source I can find is Biz himself. Other than the Friedman comments from yesterday (where he said his understanding was that Miller requested a trade), I don't see widespread reporting on it.

Wouldn't be surprised and he's been the guy most likely to quit on his teammates so he's been the clear odd one out for a while. But we've had false rumours about trade requests before in this market.

What makes you think he's the guy most likely to quit on his teammates? Did he do that in the playoffs last year? There's a difference between agreeing to waive his NMC to go to another team and asking for a trade at the first sign of trouble. Right now, it appears JT belongs to the former group (similar to how Luongo was).

Miller can be a lot of things: e.g. moody, hard on his teammates, sore loser, but quitting on his teammates is a different thing altogether. Just like company culture there isn't a one size fit all in the locker room. You just rarely have a situation where your two star centres (not just forwards) don't get along with each other enough to win together.

 

[Nucker101]

we know that petterson takes things extremely personal. remember that interview someone posted, how hughes says its like walking on egg shells to not hurt his feelings. he said one night they were hanging out and hughes zoned out onto his phone and didnt respond to one of his questions or replies, then petey was upset with him for the next day and ignored him to get his revenge. lol i think petey has a bit of the tism

where did Hughes say this?

 

[December5th]

where did Hughes say this?

im not sure what thread it was posted in now, but it was about a week ago. he didnt use the words walking on egg shells, but he said one time petey was ignoring him one day and when he confronted him about it, petey said "oh you dont like being ignored?". or something along those lines. he then said he had learned that he has to be careful with petey to not hurt his feelings

 

[Nucker101]

im not sure what thread it was posted in now, but it was about a week ago. he didnt use the words walking on egg shells, but he said one time petey was ignoring him one day and when he confronted him about it, petey said "oh you dont like being ignored?". or something along those lines. he then said he had learned that he has to be careful with petey to not hurt his feelings

if that's true then yikes, that's more sensitive than McDavid

 

[rypper]

I think there's was some more context to that story. They were roommates and getting to know each other. Pettersson is a sarcastic guy. It wasn't like he was all in tears over not getting a quick response.

 

[RobertKron]

I think there's was some more context to that story. They were roommates and getting to know each other. Pettersson is a sarcastic guy. It wasn't like he was all in tears over not getting a quick response.

I'm pretty sure it was also just Hughes talking shit

 

[geebster]

What makes you think he's the guy most likely to quit on his teammates? Did he do that in the playoffs last year? There's a difference between agreeing to waive his NMC to go to another team and asking for a trade at the first sign of trouble. Right now, it appears JT belongs to the former group (similar to how Luongo was).

Miller can be a lot of things: e.g. moody, hard on his teammates, sore loser, but quitting on his teammates is a different thing altogether. Just like company culture there isn't a one size fit all in the locker room. You just rarely have a situation where your two star centres (not just forwards) don't get along with each other enough to win together.

Last year was the one season in his career that he consistently played defense hard and was accountable and was an all round stud for this team. I honestly was surprised how great a leader he became after having spent years producing but just losing focus on defense regularly or making lazy plays.

He has absolutely given up on assignments, been lazy on line changes, not listened to coaches instructions on who to cover late in games (Tocchet has given several examples of saying what he told them to do, and its clear Miller didnt do it or cover who he was told to), etc etc. That is all giving up on your teammates mid game. If you are someone who dishes it out and has a high bar for your teammates you HAVE to meet that same bar yourself. Otherwise its not going to end well and people wont want to listen to you.

He absolutely was in a different headspace last year and through last years playoffs and was a big reason we were any good (plus Demko and of course the biggest reason being Quinn). That doesnt mean hes such a leader right now. It doesnt mean he hasnt averaged a play every other game (to be generous to him) where he quits on the play and doesnt cover his guy. Tocchet has called him out several times for it, it isnt new information, its been going on for a while now. Mentally checking out IS quitting on your team, especially when they need you. Pettersson for all his problems doesnt do that defensively.

Should we trade him if he wants to stay? I dont think so, he can still return to that guy and his trade value wont even be great if he doesnt get more consistent (nor does trading him now give you any benefits you wouldnt have trading in the offseason). I think you have to ride it out.