You mean the medical staff that:
Didn’t know Dickinson had a broken hand
Said Mik can play with a torn ACL
Said Quinn was good to go and then lasted 1 game.
Player Discussion Elias Pettersson - Please, Be Civil
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Didn’t know Dickinson had a broken hand
Said Mik can play with a torn ACL
Said Quinn was good to go and then lasted 1 game.
So yes, you think that you and some guy on Reddit know more about Canuck injuries than the actual Canuck doctors do.
Dickinson is the only one there that's questionable and the details around what happened there are super vague, for the record.
Bleach Clean
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I'd have to see Miller away from the Hughes deployment to truly gauge who has the worse floor.
Miller has been the bully here dating back to the Horvat rift. That's there regardless of how either player plays. And so far, of the two, only Pettersson has asked to stay (per Friedman). Asked this management that has called him out, that have disrespected his injury status. Is this your understanding?
If so, why do you continue to think it's between the two? As bad or good as they each are, they both could still be here if Miller asks to stay. Yet, he hasn't...
The implication is that Pettersson knows more about his own injuries that the Canucks staff does.
Evidence:
Year end presser: Pettersson "Yes, I have an injury".
Management/Tocchet: Shocked pikachu face.
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Ernie
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The only thing the Redditor said is tendonitis recovery tends to require a full year citing a study.
Impact of Patellar Tendinopathy on Player Performance in the National Basketball Association - PMC
The extent to which patellar tendinopathy affects National Basketball Association (NBA) athletes has not been thoroughly elucidated. To assess the impact patellar tendinopathy has on workload, player performance, and career longevity in NBA ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Yes the details are sketch but fact is Chicago medical team discovered a broken hand that our team f***ing missed.
If that is the only incident then sure but there is also the Mik thing and Hughes thing recently.
If you look at how basketball deal with tendonitis, they recommend against continuing to play and somehow the Canucks medical staff recommends the opposite.
Bleach Clean
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To add:
Pearson's hand injury (Hughes call out)
Numerous players coming back early from injuries, Hronek being the latest
Pettersson saying he was injured when they said he wasn't (year end)
Tocchet saying medical staff cleared Pettersson from his last injury, but he still sat out against the Caps
Miller clearly playing hurt now, stated as uninjured
Your attempt to turn this into some sort of good/evil thing is frankly bizarre. We have two very flawed people/players, in different ways.
Who wanted to stay and who was open to going probably comes down to the fact that one guy can control his destination and the other guy can't. It isn't a level playing field. Miller can pick a preferred destination. Pettersson can get traded to Buffalo. Prior to this most recent series of events when things appear to have gone beyond the breaking point, Miller was pretty clearly the guy who was a lot lower maintenance about staying here.
Per the bolded, the reports are that the team has decided that they can't go forward with both. And they've clearly looked at moving both. Like I said in the other thread, it seems like they met with both in the last week and Miller was more open to a move so he'll be the one that goes. But it doesn't sound like he requested a trade, either.
This post is incredibly ironic since I'm trying to talk about hockey players and you have some sort of personal issue with me and are constantly taking personal shots at me. I'm not the one hyperventilating here or who has some sort of unhealthy obsession. Take a look in the mirror.
The only thing the Redditor said is tendonitis recovery tends to require a full year citing a study.
Impact of Patellar Tendinopathy on Player Performance in the National Basketball Association - PMC
The extent to which patellar tendinopathy affects National Basketball Association (NBA) athletes has not been thoroughly elucidated. To assess the impact patellar tendinopathy has on workload, player performance, and career longevity in NBA ...
Yes the details are sketch but fact is Chicago medical team discovered a broken hand that our team f***ing missed.
If that is the only incident then sure but there is also the Mik thing and Hughes thing recently.
If you look at how basketball deal with tendonitis, they recommend against continuing to play and somehow the Canucks medical staff recommends the opposite.
I see nothing wrong with either the Mikheyev thing nor the Hughes thing.
Connor Brown did his ACL at the exact same time as Mikheyev and took the opposite course of action (immediate surgery) and things turned out basically identical for him. There isn't only one right answer to a lot of these things, and the opinion of the player gets weighed when there are multiple options.
Hughes seemingly gave a go at playing through an injury that couldn't really get worse and then decided it was a bit much. Nothing really weird there. Playing through injury isn't an exact science.
The vagueness of the Dickinson thing is that in the articles I've seen the reporting was phrased weirdly and it wasn't really clear if the team missed the broken hand or if Dickinson didn't think it was a big deal and didn't really flag it with the team to check.
mriswith
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That's hilariously ironic coming right after this:
I see why you are talking about not understanding math.MS said:
You're quoting "top shot speed percentile".
Taking one top end shot (and then being off for several games due to injury literally minutes later) counts for top shot speed percentile and says nothing about the constant muffins he's actually putting out there on the ice.
Here's his actual average shot speed percentile:
21-22: 91
22-23: 91
23-24: 76
24-25: 50
It takes a special kind of "not understanding" to watch him throw only muffins on the net after 6 years of watching him relish in shooting and shooting hard, pacing 30-40 goals off of that hard shot for 6 straight years, and then write that post. "Absolute drivel!!! Zero sense!! His shot is just fine!!!"
Did you actually believe from watching him this year that his shot velocity hasn't changed? Did you really believe you have been watching someone regularly shooting in the 94th percentile of shot velocity?
Or do you just care more about the year you've invested into a bad and wrong argument than the actual truth?
It also takes a special kind of "not understanding" to watch him lose skating races at half his old top speed, diving at the end of them and think "too bad he doesn't want to actually try" as an explanation for why his top end speed is completely gone. The edge data just highlights what is glaringly obvious watching him play and when the top end of a formerly dominant physical attribute is completely gone yet the player is defensively engaged, shot blocking and diving to break up plays it's obvious that lack of effort isn't the cause.
If you believe what this regime says about injuries I have a bridge to sell you.
You're literally referencing a callout where they were talking about EP's preparation in summer as if he wasn't training around an injury, which straight from the horses mouth he was. It was gamesmanship. Do you also believe the org that Miller isn't hurt right now?
That's precisely what they did last season. The Mik situation should have put to bed years ago whether appealing to the orgs sense of reason is legitimate when it comes to injuries, it's not.
They clearly believe injuries are not relevant to how well someone is playing and as a mental framework for winning I can almost get behind that except for how clearly willing they are to allow injury issues to bleed into playoffs and future seasons for the sake of winning regular season games now. That should be a short term i.e. playoffs mentality not a 24/365 outlook.
I'm not the one unravelling here or who is constantly weirdly triggered.
I'm allowed to express frustration with an underachieving player and you can't seem to handle it and this is like the 5th time in the last couple months you've started in on me with personal attacks and insults. It's weird, man. Get a life.
Was looking at some numbers I thought were interesting. Prior to 22/23 Pettersson averaged ~2.35 P/60 at even strength. Since Kuzmenko was traded he’s at 2.1 P/60. That’s about a half point per game pace, and the difference between before and after is only about 4 points per season. So this is not a huge anomaly compared to most of his career, but is compared to the ~3.8/60 he scored when playing with Kuzmenko.
On the PP his G/60 are basically at his career average, but his A/60 are at about half his career average. My gut was that he wasn’t getting as many shot opportunities but the true problem is he isn’t making plays the way he used to. His shots on goal are only down by about one every ten games or so.
From 21/22 to 23/24 like everyone Pettersson had some pretty big splits with and without Hughes at even strength - 57% CF with, 49% without. But this year unsurprisingly it is more pronounced - 57% with, 43% without.
On the PP his G/60 are basically at his career average, but his A/60 are at about half his career average. My gut was that he wasn’t getting as many shot opportunities but the true problem is he isn’t making plays the way he used to. His shots on goal are only down by about one every ten games or so.
From 21/22 to 23/24 like everyone Pettersson had some pretty big splits with and without Hughes at even strength - 57% CF with, 49% without. But this year unsurprisingly it is more pronounced - 57% with, 43% without.
Ernie
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You can post what you like. I can comment about what you're posting and the fact you are constantly blowing up this thread. If you don't like it, you could stop. Until then, I'll keep pointing it out. If you think that's weird, I could not possibly care less. It's definitely weird to be so incredibly angry all the time about this though.
Like I said, if they are all one time events then sure, like others have said, there is also the Pearson event that triggered a PA investigation.
They decided Hughes injury couldn’t get worse and then after one game he went on to miss like what 3-4 more? So how do you reconcile the idea that can’t get worse and with the fact that it actually did and he missed games right after.
Bleach Clean
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Was there rumour of a Horvat/Miller rift? Yes.
There are rumours of a Pettersson/Miller rift (one way bullying going back 5 years).
Cam Robinson has also said there is another star that is fed up with Miller (Hughes/Demko).
Way back, there was rumour that Miller got traded after confronting Lundqvist.
Miller was recently censured/took leave for 10 days. Inexplicable absence. Comes back, doesn't thank management or coach when asked.
They both can be flawed, but only one is causing enough disruption where he has recognized his time is likely done here, and that's not Pettersson.
Pettersson going to BUF before his NMC kicks in is no assurance that he doesn't also ask out of BUF... It's not about trade protection, it's about intent. Do you want to be a part of the solution? Even if you will be crucified for causing this drama along the way. Pettersson does, Miller does not.
Let's not forget whatever the hell they did to Tanner Pearson.
I mean, yeah. There are very legitimate reasons to question how the club treats/manages injuries.
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No doubt that Miller is the worse actor between him and Pettersson. When Petey isnt scoring hes trying on defense and still has a 200 ft impact. He doesnt just quit on his teammates or glide to the bench on linechanges when the other team has the puck. We are below .500 on our last 10 but if you account JUST for the goals that are 100% on Miller we are at or above .500 on that span. He has actively lost us multiple games in ways that just arent acceptable at all.
Pettersson has been bad offensively, his confidence is a huge issue in that, but he doesnt quit on us the way Miller does. All that is just on the ice, off the ice theres obviously been problems on every team hes been on including on ours. So many people who played in this lockerroom have good things to say about Pettersson, not a single one has had a negative thing to say. Conspicuously no one says much positive about Miller. Theres tons of rumours of rifts with teammates, all involve Miller. None are Pettersson and anyone else.
So yeah, Miller is easily the bigger problem for the team and the far more likely cause of issues. However, that doesnt mean Pettersson can continue to play like this, they need to get his confidence going. Unironically when Miller was gone Pettersson went at a point and a half a game and almost got back on track on his season stats, that immediately fell off when Miller got back though, which sucks.
Pettersson has been bad offensively, his confidence is a huge issue in that, but he doesnt quit on us the way Miller does. All that is just on the ice, off the ice theres obviously been problems on every team hes been on including on ours. So many people who played in this lockerroom have good things to say about Pettersson, not a single one has had a negative thing to say. Conspicuously no one says much positive about Miller. Theres tons of rumours of rifts with teammates, all involve Miller. None are Pettersson and anyone else.
So yeah, Miller is easily the bigger problem for the team and the far more likely cause of issues. However, that doesnt mean Pettersson can continue to play like this, they need to get his confidence going. Unironically when Miller was gone Pettersson went at a point and a half a game and almost got back on track on his season stats, that immediately fell off when Miller got back though, which sucks.
He believes he is 100% right on every single topic. When presented with contrary evidence (or worse, his takes are actually proven wrong!), he ignores it completely or just stops replying.
Ernie
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Bleach Clean
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The PP has to run through Pettersson. I know Miller is dynamite at it, but Pettersson never really developed this side of his game due to being an elite shooter. They let someone else make the plays. (He also delays too much)
The Kuzmenko revelation is interesting. I've long suspected that Pettersson is used to going east-west with his playmaking. The north-south emphasis this system has is a detriment to that ability. Then again, if they're able to get a 'skill' player that can play in this structure, I think that would greatly benefit Pettersson.
- The Hughes deployment
- PP runs through him on the half wall
- A skilled winger to make short passes with.
That's the recipe to get him back, beyond what else ails him.
Ernie
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Most of that was from DeBrusk scoring 10 goals in 10 games. Clearly getting that favourable icetime with Hughes helped both players, but the other minutes the team got destroyed. They pretty much need Pettersson and Hughes to play apart because they are the only ones who can drive possession. I think it's unrealistic to expect Pettersson to be a 100 pt player with the other 4 players he's typically on the ice with. DeBrusk is a 25 goal player, and there's just nobody else with top of the lineup talent that he plays with.
If Miller gets traded and Pettersson gets his Hughes minutes, I would absolutely expect a bump. Maybe that will help him regain some confidence. With all that said, though, you really, really have to worry about that contract right now.
Not understanding math would mean that I had actually seen the average velocity numbers. Where are you getting those? They aren't on the official NHL Edge stats webpage that I use.
He's basically stopped doing PP one-time slappers which he used to fire high/wide constantly, to everyone's frustration. We know the team is trying for high-percentage shots and whether that change is coach or player-enforced I have no idea but it would definitely skew the numbers.
It would also be very weird if his wrist injury which gets blamed for his 21-22 woes didn't affect his average shot velocity at all but a minor knee injury somehow did.
There's a HUGE difference between saying a player isn't hurt and calling out a player's effort when they're playing hurt. Nobody in the organization was publicly calling out Mikheyev when he was playing hurt, even if they kept the injury quiet.
The notion that the organization would know he had a serious medical issue affecting his game and then proceed to repeatedly publicly question his compete and preparation is just ... ludicrous. Especially since it isn't really an injury that can be 'targeted' by the opposition like a shoulder or back injury.
And to say that there's a 'zero percent chance' that what the team is putting out there is what's actually happening speaks to someone just totally in denial. And, for the umpteenth time, this is the 3rd extended period where we've seen this crappy version of Pettersson.
Every NHL team does the same thing with playing through injuries, for the record. Have you seen how McDavid has been handled by the Oilers in the past couple years?
Pettersson has a minor niggle. Pretty much every f***ing player in the NHL is expected to play through minor niggles. If everyone else can do it and produce at a respectable level and you go from being a 100-point player to a 50-point pumpkin, it's a problem. I don't see why this is so difficult to understand.
And to answer your question, I see a guy who isn't succeeding because he isn't playing with his expected purpose or intensity, isn't competing, doesn't want to take pucks to the hard areas of the ice. There are individual plays here and there where he looks totally 'normal' and fully capable, and he was able to basically flick a switch overnight starting in the LA game where Boeser was hurt and look like a totally different player. He's 'trying' in the sense of being responsible and following the play but that last 5% just isn't there and when it suddenly appears (like that shift in the 3rd period last night) it stands out like a sore thumb. I don't believe it's an injury issue and I think the PL Dubois interview where he talks about his struggles in LA are the closest we'll get to understanding what's been wrong with Pettersson - guys who need things to be a certain way, and then unravel mentally and can't get things right and unlock their talent when things aren't right.
And again, the team clearly agrees with my take. It's not some weird crazy thing that I'm posting.
No, I'm pretty sure you aren't allowed to make personal attacks on people trying to talk about the thread topic.
And again, I'm not the angry triggered one here. You seem more interested in talking about me than talking about hockey, and yes it is weird. I'm literally making posts about the intended subject on a message board and you're following me around having a tantrum because you don't like what I'm saying and aren't able to actually engage in intelligent discussion about it.
I'm allowed to post about Canuck players. I'm allowed to criticize Canuck players. I'm allowed to respond to the posts here disagreeing with me. If you have a problem with that, feel free to put me on ignore.
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