Player Discussion Elias Pettersson - Please, Be Civil

[Icebreakers]

You cant win anything in sports if youre top players dislike each other. Theres no amount of professionalism that can over take being human. Some people just dont get along.

 

[VanJack]

You cant win anything in sports if youre top players dislike each other. Theres no amount of professionalism that can over take being human. Some people just dont get along.

There are lots of examples in sport where teams comprised of some players who couldn't stand each other, still went on to win championships.

As Tocchet quite rightly pointed out, you're playing for the crest on your jersey first and foremost, even before the guys sitting next to you in the dressing-room stall.

From what I can gather the antipathy between Miller and Pettersson goes back years. So that's the failure of coaching and management. They needed to sit these two guys and get to the bottom of it, long before it exploded into the public view.

But Allvin seems befuddled. He handed Pettersson a huge $11.7m extension less than sixth months ago; now he's calling him out? Not a good look on him or the organization.

 

[PG Canuck]

Does anyone actually believe we can win a Cup with Pettersson as the main horse? If Miller is truly the problem, maybe but I think it’s ridiculous to play like this if so.

 

[ihaveyuidonttouchme]

We can say the same about Miller's effort in turning over the puck this season and his lack of backchecking. It's also unrealistic to think we could win a cup with either of them playing like this, especially with our atrocious defense.

We need both of them to improve if we want to even consider anything beyond the first round at this point. the moment we trade one or the other is the end of this window until hughes extend

 

[Zanon]

We can say the same about Miller's effort in turning over the puck this season and his lack of backchecking. It's also unrealistic to think we could win a cup with either of them playing like this, especially with our atrocious defense.

We need both of them to improve if we want to even consider anything beyond the first round at this point. the moment we trade one or the other is the end of this window until hughes extend

IF Hughes extends

 

[Jumptheshark]

I have a question and my apology if this was answered somewhere else. EP is out of the line up for an undisclosed injury. Is he injured or are the Canucks jut trying to protect him until the media moves on from the story?

 

[Bgav]

I have a question and my apology if this was answered somewhere else. EP is out of the line up for an undisclosed injury. Is he injured or are the Canucks jut trying to protect him until the media moves on from the story?

He was injured during the sharks game

 

[Jumptheshark]

He was injured during the sharks game

Thought I would ask. Whenever I see anyone listed as "undisclosed" I always ask if it is legit

 

[nucksflailtogether]

We miss him, despite his lack of offence recently. He's a stabilizing force in the middle.

 

[Bleach Clean]

While one can speculate as to whether management leaked trade rumours to pressure Pettersson to sign, at least their is logic in speculating that trade rumours may pressure Pettersson to sign. There is no logic in thinking that Allvin, knowing Pettersson’s poor play is predominantly caused by injury, is going to publicly call out Pettersson and that this public call out will lead to Pettersson playing better. The public call out only makes sense if Allvin thinks Pettersson’s poor play is not predominately caused by injury.

I don’t think you have to disregard Petey’s comments about training around the injury. Alvin can still think that Pettersson’s play was not predominately caused by injury but accept that he has or had a nagging, minor injury.

I didn’t realize management were medical practitioners that could commit medical malpractice. lol. But yes, they obviously take advice from medical practitioners, and it’s possible they are getting terrible advice, and are taking that advice and ignoring, presumably, Pettersson’s own account to the contrary, and are then so confident in said advice over Pettersson’s account that they are going to blast Pettersson in the media notwithstanding that he’s the single most important asset in their organization, and an asset the signed long term to a monster contract. So it’s possible, but it seems far fetched to me. I could see them potentially favouring the medical advice over Petey’s account (although even that is a bit of a stretch) but to go out and publicly blast your most important asset is something entirely different.

I think we are mostly talking about Allvin here. I just brought up Tocchet’s comments because they are largely consistent with Allvin’s comments.

Nothing definitive can ever result from a lack of information. Clearly the Canucks haven’t always dealt with injuries correctly. But there are two things at play here. First, there is the issue as to whether they have got good or bad medical advice. And second, the issue of them blasting Petey publicly. I’m more concerned about the latter issue, and I find it far fetched to believe that they are receiving bad medical advice, and are disregarding, presumably, Petey’s own account to the contrary, and then going on to rely on said advice over Petey’s account to the contrary in publicly blasting Petey, who is their most valuable asset that they locked up long term.

But also, keep in mind the context of my response that you replied to. I was calling out the OP who suggested that anyone who can’t see that Pettersson’s bad play is due to injury is “deliberately, wilfully, and in bad faith blind”. I’m not making any wild declarations here, either way, because as you point out we have limited information. But the idea that Pettersson’s clearly a result of injury, or anything that that effect, is completely at odds with Allvin’s comments.

Ah, so Rutherford's trade implication allows us to merely speculate (either way), but Allvin's call-out casts the dissenter as being delusional? Two different positions with management as the same source for both...

Since you have shown selection bias in the past with regard to sources, I'm wondering: Why is Pettersson not the 'primary source' for his own injury?

The Logic is clear: The organization and Pettersson disagree, and have disagreed, to the extent of his nagging injury.

Now, you can take Pettersson's drop in performance as evidence, or Allvin/Tocchet's word. If I had to choose, his play speaks more to me than anything else could, least of all this organization with its medical staff. The disagreement over the injury, I think too, has also impaired the trust between the two sides.

All told, luckily, I don't have to choose because I just don't know for sure, and neither do you (or others).

 

[F A N]

Love the arguments being made that 'Petey had Kuzmenko on his line coming off of a 39 goal year, Miller only had Boeser".

Yes, Kuzmenko had that year BECAUSE of Petey. Or do you think that a young Mario Lemieux was lucky to have Warren Young on his line, and Gretzky was lucky to have Blair Macdonald on his line?

I'm not sure if that comment was directed at me, but Boeser in 22-23 was not good. He certainly wasn't the goal scorer we were used to seeing. As for Kuzmenko, he had the year because of Petey but Kuzmenko is clearly skilled on his own and converted on his opportunities at a high rate. Whether it was chemistry or luck, Kuzmenko was good that year. You also see that he was able to score 14 goals 25 points in 29 games in Calgary last season.

I think a lot of "facts" get interpreted in different ways and I'm not sure why. Since Miller has been acquired, he's led the Canucks in points except for the Covid year and in 22-23 but they are generally close. Pettersson in 22-23 broke out with 102 points. Petey was also good at the beginning of last season as well. But if we're to objectively rate who has been the best Canucks forward since 2019, it's been JT Miller but it's not like Petey has been far behind most of the time.

I do think that DeBrusk is one good winger for Petey, but he needs another guy who thinks the game in a european, creative way. Kuzmenko hasn't shown much since he left Petey's wing, but he thought the game in a similar way. Doesn't need to be a 10 million dollar player, but it would be nice to see someone who tries to create and utilize space in a similar way.

Let's not forget he also turned water into wine in the form of Goldobin once upon a time and played well (briefly) with Baertschi too.

I completely agree. A lot of times what gets lost is chemistry. A flawed player matched up with a player who is able to minimize that player's flaws can work. Kuzemenko's skillset complemented Petey's and I don't see how anyone of us here can argue that Kuzmenko wasn't one of the best Canucks' wingers when he scored 39 goals.

The issue does come down to Petey. We can't afford him going into these funks where he's not even producing like a dangerous 30+ goal 70+ goal C. I really don't like the criticisms management has publicly thrown his way. This is a guy that months ago they begged to sign a 8x$11.6M AAV extension but now he needs to grow up? Petey has been able to play his way out of his funk when Bruce (there it is) took over.

 

[PavelBure10]

Allvin has fell a few notches in my book. This whole way to call out Pettersson is just embarrassing. What a poor way to ignite a fire under a player who is known to be a introvert in the room. Knowing the facts about this specific player and they choose to go this route is pathetic.
The whole hockey world now knows about the Miller/Pettersson rift aswell thanks to our general manager. A lot of these problems should be dealt with behind the scenes. It should of been managements job to nip the rift in the butt a long time a go. To hear that this has been going on for years now is just ridiculous. You can't tell me that this crap hasn't affected the team.

This season has been a frustrating one. To hear the general manager callout one of our star players while not taking any responsibility for this year's downfall is just frustrating. Virtually All of us fans knew going into this season that the Canucks were going to be eaten alive with a defensive core like ours. Especially if the worst possible scenario happens, Hughes or Hronek go down to injury. Well look what has happened.

Add in injury management, playing hardball with Zadorov, letting Cole walk, Pettersson deal, and striking out at last years deadline. Allvin has been okay but not spectacular as a GM, but I certainly don't like the way he has handled the locker room shenanigans.

This mess of a team is also on you Allvin. So don't exclude yourself from this mess. What a clown show.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You cant win anything in sports if youre top players dislike each other. Theres no amount of professionalism that can over take being human. Some people just dont get along.

Its actually very common.

These are alphas used to getting their way and winning at every turn from being kids to the day they were drafted.

Winning heals everything.


The thing is, and I've said this before here. Millers perceived leadership would be tested once things get hard. Now we are there and its not looking pretty.

 

[Bobby9]

Does anyone actually believe we can win a Cup with Pettersson as the main horse? If Miller is truly the problem, maybe but I think it’s ridiculous to play like this if so.

Im not convinced he can win us games nevermind a cup

 

[Kryten]

Its actually very common.

These are alphas used to getting their way and winning at every turn from being kids to the day they were drafted.

Winning heals everything.


The thing is, and I've said this before here. Millers perceived leadership would be tested once things get hard. No we are there and its not looking pretty.

This is really only the 2nd time in Millers NHL career where things arent going well (first being the shocking retool year) and the 1st where he is more of a leader and yea, hes not taking it well or conducting himself positivey

 

[Regal]

This is really only the 2nd time in Millers NHL career where things arent going well (first being the shocking retool year) and the 1st where he is more of a leader and yea, hes not taking it well or conducting himself positivey

Id say this is the third. The Covid year and the Boudreau second year were both bad times for Miller and the team and both times Miller’s play and professionalism were questioned. Which is why the idea that some in this thread have claimed that he’s escaped the criticism that Petey has had is nonsense. They get criticized differently because they have different faults but both get shit on when it’s deserved. It’s clear he’s an emotional hot head who makes things worse when things aren’t going well. And just like Petey’s slumps, it becomes more frustrating the more they occur until people question if he needs to be moved.

 

[nucks88]

I’ll bet Hughes can’t wait to get out of here.

I am hoping Bedard feels the same way ……

 

[sting101]

Does anyone actually believe we can win a Cup with Pettersson as the main horse? If Miller is truly the problem, maybe but I think it’s ridiculous to play like this if so.

This is the quagmire

On one hand we want/need to see the Pettersson that we have seen previously realize his upside live up to or better his contract. Would make a 1-2 of Pettersson Miller with Hughes as one of the best trios in the NHL in the most important roles that gives us hope for a cup

On the other since that opportunity has come available with the moves of JR and PA all we have been presented with is play lacking of a chance to fulfill these hopes.

Everyone just keeps finding reasons for it yet in a simple sweeping stroke Pettersson could erase all the doubts and put the pressure on others by being the best forward on our team. It's not enough to be the most talented or have the most potential. You must lead that hope and that starts with setting the tone of competitiveness

It's obvious we are not getting his best and the rest falls like dominoes. You don't get called out by that many people and with a straight face deny this is the biggest challenge facing this team.

A scout told me 4 yrs ago that Canucks will never win with 40 and 43 as the best players because they are too fragile to get through 4 rounds of playoff hockey. So far he's right and all it took was 1 playoff for this to become a powder keg issue.

I though more about serious injury as the biggest hurdle when i pondered it.

Never in my wildest dreams would i have thought this would blow up with immaturity and egos inside the room before we failed on the ice with an honest team effort

If i'm JR i call PA and QH into a closed door meeting and decide whether to move on and break this apart or try and bring this together.

 

[oba]

To hear the general manager callout one of our star players while not taking any responsibility for this year's downfall in just frustrating. Virtually All of us fans knew going into this season that the Canucks were going to be eaten alive with a defensive core like ours. Especially if the worst possible scenario happens, Hughes or Hronek go down to injury. Well look what has happened.

need to tone this a bit.
point: Z being a big fan favorite. might not be a regular season top pair but is a playoff stud. (like Myers) ... good luck Z

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

If the Canucks trade Elias Pettersson the centreman, then the other Elias Pettersson better wear 40.

 

[geebster]

Weird all round that Tocchet says today that Pettersson is close and will be on the roadtrip, but he was placed on IR later in the day. Its not LTIR so it doesnt make him ineligible to play but weird time to retroactively put him on it.

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

Weird all round that Tocchet says today that Pettersson is close and will be on the roadtrip, but he was placed on IR later in the day. Its not LTIR so it doesnt make him ineligible to play but weird time to retroactively put him on it.

Had to to call up Silovs.

 

[geebster]

Had to to call up Silovs.

I hate how we dont have capfriendly to check precisely but I was under the impression we had room for Silovs without it.

 

[Blue and Green]

I hate how we dont have capfriendly to check precisely but I was under the impression we had room for Silovs without it.

Wasn't about cap space; putting a guy on IR doesn't remove his cap hit. It's about the 23-man roster limit.

 

[geebster]

Wasn't about cap space; putting a guy on IR doesn't remove his cap hit. It's about the 23-man roster limit.

That makes more sense