Player Discussion Elias Pettersson - Please, Be Civil

[racerjoe]

Pettersson and Hughes were training in Michican during training camp and preseason:



Your suggestion that he missed training camp and preseason because of an injury is incorrect. He missed training camp and preseason because he wasn't under contract.

That just says the were skating together…. Never denied that. But again I think Pettersson missed all of preseason unlike Hughes, he was there for the end. If you have something actually about that I am all ears, cause it is by memory.

 

[MS]

That just says the were skating together…. Never denied that. But again I think Pettersson missed all of preseason unlike Hughes, he was there for the end. If you have something actually about that I am all ears, cause it is by memory.

Pettersson and Hughes both signed on October 1 and played 2 games in the 21-22 preseason.

2021 Preseason Vancouver Canucks Stats & Leaders - NHL Scoring Stats | FOX Sports

View 2021 Preseason Vancouver Canucks Stats and team leaders.

www.foxsports.com

 

[Hodgy]

That just says the were skating together…. Never denied that. But again I think Pettersson missed all of preseason unlike Hughes, he was there for the end. If you have something actually about that I am all ears, cause it is by memory.

In response to me calling it ridiculous that his minor injury that he missed no time for was causing his poor skating, you referenced that he missed training camp and preseason. Why else would you reference if not to imply that his injury caused him to miss this?

Anyway, like I said, this is all just grasping at straws.

Clearly Pettersson's poor skating in his last slump is relevant to determining why he's skating poorly in this slump, and can't be explained away because of a minor wrist injury.

 

[Ernie]

It's almost like an $11 million superstar should be able to produce if he's playing with the team's 2nd defense pairing. It's the most pathetic excuse in history. Conor Garland also doesn't play with Hughes much. Pettersson has also mostly looked like crap when playing with Hughes for the past year. And on the PP with Hughes.

The Canucks don't have a 2nd defence pair, full stop.

This is getting beyond ridiculous. The numbers and the eye test do not lie.

The bottom two pairs are the worst that I have seen as a Canucks fan, and that's saying something.

 

[racerjoe]

Pettersson and Hughes both signed on October 1 and played 2 games in the 21-22 preseason.

2021 Preseason Vancouver Canucks Stats & Leaders - NHL Scoring Stats | FOX Sports

View 2021 Preseason Vancouver Canucks Stats and team leaders.

www.foxsports.com

That’s what I was asking for thank you.

In response to me calling it ridiculous that his minor injury that he missed no time for was causing his poor skating, you referenced that he missed training camp and preseason. Why else would you reference if not to imply that his injury caused him to miss this?

Anyway, like I said, this is all just grasping at straws.

Clearly Pettersson's poor skating in his last slump is relevant to determining why he's skating poorly in this slump, and can't be explained away because of a minor wrist injury.

It was the off season, so yeah “missed no time” just 6-8 weeks of the off season

 

[MS]

The Canucks don't have a 2nd defence pair, full stop.

This is getting beyond ridiculous. The numbers and the eye test do not lie.

The bottom two pairs are the worst that I have seen as a Canucks fan, and that's saying something.

Of course they're bad.

But they aren't an excuse for an $11 million player to be this bad. Again, Conor Garland plays a lower percentage of his ES TOI with Hughes than Pettersson does but he's somehow found a way to look fantastic this year.

Pettersson also played a roughly similar % of his TOI with Hughes back in 22-23 when he scored 100 points, and our bottom-4 on D then was probably even worse than now.

 

[Ernie]

Anyway, like I said, this is all just grasping at straws.

Clearly Pettersson's poor skating in his last slump is relevant to determining why he's skating poorly in this slump, and can't be explained away because of a minor wrist injury.

Frankly, this "poor skating in his last slump" is entirely an invention. There is absolutely no merit to it or any evidence that it happened and it's completely made up as an excuse to crap on him.

As for the slump, it was a below average season by his standards but nothing out of a normal variation that players go through. He still scored 32 goals.

 

[Ernie]

Of course they're bad.

But they aren't an excuse for an $11 million player to be this bad. Again, Conor Garland plays a lower percentage of his ES TOI with Hughes than Pettersson does but he's somehow found a way to look fantastic this year.

Pettersson also played a roughly similar % of his TOI with Hughes back in 22-23 when he scored 100 points, and our bottom-4 on D then was probably even worse than now.

Garland is having a great season, but he's also seeing his production crater right now.

It's not just that Pettersson isn't playing with Hughes. It's that the rest of the back end is completely, utterly incapable of moving the puck.

Perhaps in the past Pettersson could skate it out himself like Hughes does. His injury does not allow him to do that anymore.

 

[MS]

Garland is having a great season, but he's also seeing his production crater right now.

What?

He's on a 2-game pointless streak after having 14 points in his previous 12 games.

If Conor Garland can perform in a lower ratio of Quinn Hughes minutes than Pettersson gets, it's not a f***ing excuse for Pettersson. This shit is pathetic.

It's not just that Pettersson isn't playing with Hughes. It's that the rest of the back end is completely, utterly incapable of moving the puck.

Yes, we all know this. Although Brannstrom has been on one of the pairings for almost the whole season so this isn't entirely true.

It isn't an excuse for an $11 million player. Period.

Perhaps in the past Pettersson could skate it out himself like Hughes does. His injury does not allow him to do that anymore.

... and back to the BS injury stuff.

Why couldn't he skate in 2021 when he had no injury whatsoever that should have impacted his skating?

 

[Ernie]

What?

He's on a 2-game pointless streak after having 14 points in his previous 12 games.

If Conor Garland can perform in a lower ratio of Quinn Hughes minutes than Pettersson gets, it's not a f***ing excuse for Pettersson. This shit is pathetic.

He has 4 points in has last 8 games.

Again, just because Garland is having a decent season against the odds is irrelevant.

Yes, we all know this. Although Brannstrom has been on one of the pairings for almost the whole season so this isn't entirely true.

It isn't an excuse for an $11 million player. Period

You will not accept any reasons except that he's a head case. That's a fact.

... and back to the BS injury stuff.

Why couldn't he skate in 2021 when he had no injury whatsoever that should have impacted his skating?

This he "couldn't skate in 2021" thing is a complete fabrication. You've repeated it enough that people are also starting to repeat it but you completely made it up.

 

[MS]

He has 4 points in has last 8 games.

Again, just because Garland is having a decent season against the odds is irrelevant.

He has 7 points in his last 8 games.

Teddy Blueger has almost as many 5-on-5 points as Pettersson, too. Plays with Hughes even less.

The excuses are absolutely f***ing pathetic. I swear, Pettersson could get drunk and run down peoples' grandmothers walking down the sidewalk and they'd blame grandma for denting his Audi.

You will not accept any reasons except that he's a head case. That's a fact.

Nothing has been presented which remotely excuses this level of play over almost a year from an $11 million player.

This he "couldn't skate in 2021" thing is a complete fabrication. You've repeated it enough that people are also starting to repeat it but you completely made it up.

Go read the threads. Everyone was saying all the exact same shit about his skating. Another poster has presented the quotes en masse here before. The numbers were down, same as this year. It's the furthest thing from a fabrication.

 

[Hodgy]

Frankly, this "poor skating in his last slump" is entirely an invention. There is absolutely no merit to it or any evidence that it happened and it's completely made up as an excuse to crap on him.

I have already posted this several times but there is a ton of eye witness accounts (i.e., evidence) that Pettersson skated poorly in his last slump. I found the following ten quotes with a quick search of the old Pettersson thread. I didn't review the whole thread, or even look at any game day threads, but you can peruse those and you will almost certainly find more similar accounts. The idea that this is just an "invention" is totally inaccurate and revisionist history.

-He's not skating. There was a play in one of the Ducks Games where he was forechecking and Getzlaf had the puck. Instead of skating and catching that old f*** he instead started reaching with his stick and Getzlaf blew by him

-Effort on that EN goal says it all. Just giving zero f***s out there.
-He's weak on his skates and doesn't seem as fast.

-His speed/hustle that was so evident in year 1 is gone

-The passing, the skating, the turnovers it's just all bad.

-He just doesn't move his feet at all. He just glides around.

-Physically speaking, the issue seems to be that a gentle breeze knocks him over, and he seems to have substituted skating with coasting around.

-Kid can't even skate or make 10 foot passes.

-he's not a fast skater, he's not a strong skater

-EP has completely checked out on a physical level. He is just going through the motions, he is the epitome of being easy to play against. Maybe someone should point that out to him?

-If EP can't be bothered to actually move his legs when he's on the ice, I have no problem with seeing what the trade market is like, although it's hard to imagine getting good value for a player who falls to the ice once per shift.

As for the slump, it was a below average season by his standards but nothing out of a normal variation that players go through. He still scored 32 goals.

This is more revisionist history. He scored like 26 goals after January 15th and was terrible for the first three months or so. He had 17 points over the first 37 games for a .45 ppg clip.

This he "couldn't skate in 2021" thing is a complete fabrication. You've repeated it enough that people are also starting to repeat it but you completely made it up.

It isn't a fabrication, and if you had have told people that Pettersson was skating well during his last slump you would have been laughed at.

 

[Ernie]

He has 7 points in his last 8 games.

Teddy Blueger has almost as many 5-on-5 points as Pettersson, too. Plays with Hughes even less.

The excuses are absolutely f***ing pathetic. I swear, Pettersson could get drunk and run down peoples' grandmothers walking down the sidewalk and they'd blame grandma for denting his Audi.

Pettersson could re-incarnate as Jesus himself and you'd still be trash talking him.

Nothing has been presented which remotely excuses this level of play over almost a year from an $11 million player.

Go read the threads. Everyone was saying all the exact same shit about his skating. Another poster has presented the quotes en masse here before. The numbers were down, same as this year. It's the furthest thing from a fabrication.

There has been tons that has been presented.

I don't doubt people were trash talking him. But there's zero evidence that his skating was an issue, it's something you invented once people sharing the Edge data.

 

[NoShowWilly]

Yes, 100% he isn't skating very well. Just like in his last big slump.

He has never looked like he has zero power in his stride. That is how he looks now. There is nothing in his stride.

 

[Ernie]

I have already posted this several times but there is a ton of eye witness accounts (i.e., evidence) that Pettersson skated poorly in his last slump. I found the following ten quotes with a quick search of the old Pettersson thread. I didn't review the whole thread, or even look at any game day threads, but you can peruse those and you will almost certainly find more similar accounts. The idea that this is just an "invention" is totally inaccurate and revisionist history.

-He's not skating. There was a play in one of the Ducks Games where he was forechecking and Getzlaf had the puck. Instead of skating and catching that old f*** he instead started reaching with his stick and Getzlaf blew by him

-Effort on that EN goal says it all. Just giving zero f***s out there.
-He's weak on his skates and doesn't seem as fast.

-His speed/hustle that was so evident in year 1 is gone

-The passing, the skating, the turnovers it's just all bad.

-He just doesn't move his feet at all. He just glides around.

-Physically speaking, the issue seems to be that a gentle breeze knocks him over, and he seems to have substituted skating with coasting around.

-Kid can't even skate or make 10 foot passes.

-he's not a fast skater, he's not a strong skater

-EP has completely checked out on a physical level. He is just going through the motions, he is the epitome of being easy to play against. Maybe someone should point that out to him?

-If EP can't be bothered to actually move his legs when he's on the ice, I have no problem with seeing what the trade market is like, although it's hard to im

People post the exact same things every player when they are on a slump. Him not staying on his feet has been a constant.

This is more revisionist history. He scored like 26 goals after January 15th and was terrible for the first three months or so. He had 17 points over the first 37 games for a .45 ppg clip.

That's just a normal, common slump for any player in the league. It happens.

 

[Hodgy]

People post the exact same things every player when they are on a slump. Him not staying on his feet has been a constant.

Players slumping quite often aren't moving their feet and aren't skating well because there is an obvious correlation between skating well/fast and being an effective player. So you are probably right that lots of players playing through a slump are also criticized for skating poorly as that stands to reason.

Pettersson was skating poorly during his last slump, just like he is during his current slump, and there is a ton of eye witness accounts to this effect. You can search the GDTs and you will find even more. The idea that Pettersson went from a 90 point player to a 40 point player but was somehow still skating super well and being dynamic on the ice is frankly ridiculous.

The "Pettersson falls down lots" is irrelevant, I agree. But more of the quotes are not to that effect.

That's just a normal, common slump for any player in the league. It happens.

Its normal for a 90-100 point player to play half a season or so at a 40 point pace? Really? If so, you can probably cite a bunch of examples off the top of your head. And this is just his first slump. He's got a second eerily similar slump as well. Any examples of these type of players with two slumps like that? I'd love to see it.

 

[MS]

Pettersson could re-incarnate as Jesus himself and you'd still be trash talking him.

So you have no response to the fact that plenty of other players have been producing at a high level with a lower ratio of Quinn Hughes minutes. It's only an excuse for poor wittle Petey. Gotcha.

This statement is also factually untrue. Nobody pumped Pettersson's tires harder than me when he was playing well in 2023. Unfortunately his good play is the exception rather than the rule

There has been tons that has been presented.

I don't doubt people were trash talking him. But there's zero evidence that his skating was an issue, it's something you invented once people sharing the Edge data.

@Hodgy presented it just above. It was absolutely f***ing *identical* to this. And it looked identical to this on the ice.

And the Edge data confirms his skating speed was down that year.

But the fanboys just stick their heads in the ground and claim FABRICATION.

 

[Ernie]

Players slumping quite often aren't moving their feet and aren't skating well because there is an obvious correlation between skating well/fast and being an effective player. So you are probably right that lots of players playing through a slump are also criticized for skating poorly as that stands to reason.

Pettersson was skating poorly during his last slump, just like he is during his current slump, and there is a ton of eye witness accounts to this effect. You can search the GDTs and you will find even more. The idea that Pettersson went from a 90 point player to a 40 point player but was somehow still skating super well and being dynamic on the ice is frankly ridiculous.

The "Pettersson falls down lots" is irrelevant, I agree. But more of the quotes are not to that effect.

Not moving his feet.
Gripping his stick.
Not seeing the ice.
All the same thing.

Its normal for a 90-100 point player to play half a season or so at a 40 point pace? Really? If so, you can probably cite a bunch of examples off the top of your head. And this is just his first slump. He's got a second eerily similar slump as well. Any examples of these type of players with two slumps like that? I'd love to see it.

He was about a point per game player back then, so it's not as much of a departure. Up until last year he was a top 25 forward in this league in points / game, so despite his slump he was still a top player (which is why he got the contract he has).

 

[MS]

That's just a normal, common slump for any player in the league. It happens.

A 100-point player scoring at a 38-point pace for a half-season is not 'normal', just like a 100-point player having 1 ESG in 40 games during 2024 wasn't normal.

If this is your baseline for Pettersson expectations, no f***ing wonder he dazzles you so much.

 

[Ernie]

So you have no response to the fact that plenty of other players have been producing at a high level with a lower ratio of Quinn Hughes minutes. It's only an excuse for poor wittle Petey. Gotcha.

This statement is also factually untrue. Nobody pumped Pettersson's tires harder than me when he was playing well in 2023. Unfortunately his good play is the exception rather than the rule

Other players? 1 player. That's it, 1. Good for him!

You have not been a Pettersson booster at any point. Maybe you took a break from criticizing him, which in your mind might be the same thing.

@Hodgy presented it just above. It was absolutely f***ing *identical* to this. And it looked identical to this on the ice.

And the Edge data confirms his skating speed was down that year.

But the fanboys just stick their heads in the ground and claim FABRICATION.

His top speed was down a bit but he was still generating the same number of speed bursts that he was the next season. Both are way down this season.

A 100-point player scoring at a 38-point pace for a half-season is not 'normal', just like a 100-point player having 1 ESG in 40 games during 2024 wasn't normal.

If this is your baseline for Pettersson expectations, no f***ing wonder he dazzles you so much.

He wasn't a 100 point player any season previously to that, or even remotely close to it. Once again, throw a total misrepresentation in there and hope nobody notices.

He's not dazzling right now. He's injured, that's the point.

 

[beachcomber]

Of course they're bad.

But they aren't an excuse for an $11 million player to be this bad. Again, Conor Garland plays a lower percentage of his ES TOI with Hughes than Pettersson does but he's somehow found a way to look fantastic this year.

Pettersson also played a roughly similar % of his TOI with Hughes back in 22-23 when he scored 100 points, and our bottom-4 on D then was probably even worse than now.

Great players find a way with whoever they are on the ice with and Petey seems unable to do that. No problem if he’s making 7 million but it’s a big problem now.

 

[MS]

Other players? 1 player. That's it, 1. Good for him!

You have not been a Pettersson booster at any point. Maybe you took a break from criticizing him, which in your mind might be the same thing.

I listed several players who are producing at or above expected levels.

Here's a series of posts from October 2023 when I'm cheerleading Pettersson on the main boards and saying he's better than Jack Hughes :

Elias Pettersson or Jack Hughes?

pettersson has 4 points to jack's 2, he's literally twice as good

forums.hfboards.com

I was willing to write off the first two extended non-effort streaks of his career to the malaise of the Benning era, poor coaching and organizational leadership, and the frustration of being a young player in a dysfunctional environment. Then it happened again in the middle of one of the most successful seasons in franchise history. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice ...

His top speed was down a bit but he was still generating the same number of speed bursts that he was the next season. Both are way down this season.

Top speed was way down. We don't know when the speed bursts happened relative to his good and poor performances.

He wasn't a 100 point player any season previously to that, or even remotely close to it. Once again, throw a total misrepresentation in there and hope nobody notices.

He's not dazzling right now. He's injured, that's the point.

Sorry, at that point he was roughly an 80-point player who dropped a 35-point half season where his body language and effort were atrocious and he looked an absolute shell of his normal self. The owner was intervening with private meetings to solve the problem. It wasn't f***ing normal.

 

[Ernie]

I listed several players who are producing at or above expected levels.

Here's a series of posts from October 2023 when I'm cheerleading Pettersson on the main boards and saying he's better than Jack Hughes :

Elias Pettersson or Jack Hughes?

pettersson has 4 points to jack's 2, he's literally twice as good

forums.hfboards.com

Several players? You sure?

I was willing to write off the first two extended non-effort streaks of his career to the malaise of the Benning era, poor coaching and organizational leadership, and the frustration of being a young player in a dysfunctional environment. Then it happened again in the middle of one of the most successful seasons in franchise history. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice ...

Wait, there's yet another season you're complaining about? These things just keep piling up.

Top speed was way down. We don't know when the speed bursts happened relative to his good and poor performances.

He was putting up the same number speed bursts as the next season so if that's the case, he must have flipped a switch and gone absolutely crazy.

Or, you know, none of this happened.

Sorry, at that point he was roughly an 80-point player who dropped a 35-point half season where his body language and effort were atrocious and he looked an absolute shell of his normal self. The owner was intervening with private meetings to solve the problem. It wasn't f***ing normal.

So you're going to start with the complete fabrications again? Are you going to start swearing at me and get all our posts deleted? Stop making shit up.

At this point, you claim to have such an expertise as a body language interpreter, you may want to think of making a career of it.

 

[MS]

Several players? You sure?

I listed Blueger also. I thought I had listed Suter and Sherwood as well.

Wait, there's yet another season you're complaining about? These things just keep piling up.

Doesn't surprise me that you've forgotten the 2020-21 pre-wrist injury stretch when he was absolutely terrible.

He was putting up the same number speed bursts as the next season so if that's the case, he must have flipped a switch and gone absolutely crazy.

Or, you know, none of this happened.




So you're going to start with the complete fabrications again? Are you going to start swearing at me and get all our posts deleted? Stop making shit up.

At this point, you claim to have such an expertise as a body language interpreter, you may want to think of making a career of it.

Accusing other people of fabricating stuff because you're too much of a baby to handle criticism of your favourite player should be an infraction. It's always good to find out which posters here are absolutely worthless to try discussing things with. 0

The only thing that's been fabricated here is your Conor Garland 'production cratering'.

 

[Ernie]

Doesn't surprise me that you've forgotten the 2020-21 pre-wrist injury stretch when he was absolutely terrible.

Wait he had an injury and his performance suffered? Imagine that.

Accusing other people of fabricating stuff because you're too much of a baby to handle criticism of your favourite player should be an infraction. It's always good to find out which posters here are absolutely worthless to try discussing things with. 0

The only thing that's been fabricated here is your Conor Garland 'production cratering'.

I see you're going back to the personal attacks again. I guess you can't handle the criticism yourself so you're going to make the mods delete posts again. Pathetic.

The thing is, even you have to realize you're full of it, right? Like you went back and looked at the Edge data, would have seen that his 2021/2022 skating speed data was the same as the next season, and STILL kept going on about how his skating was slow that season. It's just silly at this point.

If you were being fair, you would have brought that up here. But no - you want a narrative, and will make anything up you need to in order to further it.