Player Discussion Elias Pettersson - Please, Be Civil

[JT Milker]

There are all sorts of stats and pesky NHL Edge numbers and what he has said. The words... that he has said with his... mouth.

He’s said himself he’s fine.

You liked the highschool essay above on emotional disposition and psychology where zero facts are used.

You like the player, it’s fine. I also like the player, but am willing to call him out for his poor play. That upsets few very vocal posters, particularly one Benning apologist. That’s the way the thread will continue to go until he plays like he’s capable of or traded, it is what it is.

 

[Caboose]

I really hate this argument consistently popping up here that somehow JT is taking away the "prime" minutes with Hughes away from Petey.

For the player Petey should be, all his minutes ARE the "prime" minutes.

People are talking about him like he is Elias Lindholm and needs to be put in a position where those around him can lift his game. He is supposed to be our Kucherov, or at least consistently be in that Nylander, Pasternak, Point tier. But right now I doubt even Carolina would trade Aho for him 1 for 1.

It's really embarassing comparing the consistent impact our 11.6 mil player provides compared to his cap hit equivalents.

This guys is paid to be a difference maker night in and night out and absolutely should not need to be on the ice with Hughes to make that happen.




Also, I am extra bitter, because last year everything went right for the Canucks and we had a legitimate chance at winning the cup. Even without Demko, if Petey played up to his potential we at least get by Edmonton.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

I really hate this argument consistently popping up here that somehow JT is taking away the "prime" minutes with Hughes away from Petey.

For the player Petey should be, all his minutes ARE the "prime" minutes.

People are talking about him like he is Elias Lindholm and needs to be put in a position where those around him can lift his game. He is supposed to be our Kucherov, or at least consistently be in that Nylander, Pasternak, Point tier. But right now I doubt even Carolina would trade Aho for him 1 for 1.

It's really embarassing comparing the consistent impact our 11.6 mil player provides compared to his cap hit equivalents.

This guys is paid to be a difference maker night in and night out and absolutely should not need to be on the ice with Hughes to make that happen.




Also, I am extra bitter, because last year everything went right for the Canucks and we had a legitimate chance at winning the cup. Even without Demko, if Petey played up to his potential we at least get by Edmonton.

I’m bitter cause this fan base and media want to run him out of town, we never learn

 

[Caboose]

I’m bitter cause this fan base and media want to run him out of town, we never learn

I'm certainly not ready to run him out of town, but other than a meaningless sidebar in my post which parts do you disagree with?

Are you happy with an 11.6M Elias Lindholm? Or do you believe he should be, needs to be, much better.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

He’s said himself he’s fine.

No he hasnt.

Your entire premise falls apart if you admit he hasnt.

You liked the highschool essay above on emotional disposition and psychology where zero facts are used.

He is absolutely correct that Miller is painted as brave when he needs a mental break and Pettersson is called mentally weak when he struggles while playing through injuries. Something very odd is going on.

You like the player, it’s fine. I also like the player, but am willing to call him out for his poor play. That upsets few very vocal posters, particularly one Benning apologist. That’s the way the thread will continue to go until he plays like he’s capable of or traded, it is what it is.

Oh is that what you are doing?

Is someone saying he has not struggled?

 

[sandwichbird2023]

"Maybe wrist injury."

Haha ok, definitely wrist injury. I don't know how the word "maybe" snuck in there :p

No he hasnt.

Your entire premise falls apart if you admit he hasnt.

He is absolutely correct that Miller is painted as brave when he needs a mental break and Pettersson is called mentally weak when he struggles while playing through injuries. Something very odd is going on.

Oh is that what you are doing?

Is someone saying he has not struggled?

At this point Petey should just take a couple weeks off himself, if that will help him reset and comes back at 100% (or at least close to it). Currently he isn't hurting the team, but we aren't a serious contender unless he is himself again.

If Petey was trying to power through his struggle, it is admirable, but ultimately not helpful to both himself and the team. If a mental break can refocus or re-energize him (or whatever term you want to use), then he should totally do that.

At the end of the day, I want both Miller and Petey to be 100% mentally, but I also want them to be playing at 100% as well. That is best for everybody in the long run.

 

[JT Milker]

No he hasnt.

Your entire premise falls apart if you admit he hasnt.

He is absolutely correct that Miller is painted as brave when he needs a mental break and Pettersson is called mentally weak when he struggles while playing through injuries. Something very odd is going on.

Oh is that what you are doing?

Is someone saying he has not struggled?

Here is Elias Pettersson literally saying he’s fine: “I had to train around my knee injury, but I feel great,” Pettersson said. “We figured out a way to work around it. I don’t feel any pain in it now or after [the skates], it’s not a big thing, knee is fine.” Canucks head coach Rick Tocchet says he’d love to bring Jaromir Jagr to Vancouver

Whether you choose to believe him and want to rant about it is your prerogative, but it’s not “facts” it’s your opinion.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Haha ok, definitely wrist injury. I don't know how the word "maybe" snuck in there :p

At this point Petey should just take a couple weeks off himself, if that will help him reset and comes back at 100% (or at least close to it). Currently he isn't hurting the team, but we aren't a serious contender unless he is himself again.

If Petey was trying to power through his struggle, it is admirable, but ultimately not helpful to both himself and the team. If a mental break can refocus or re-energize him (or whatever term you want to use), then he should totally do that.

At the end of the day, I want both Miller and Petey to be 100% mentally, but I also want them to be playing at 100% as well. That is best for everybody in the long run.

I dont think we are a serious contender with this D core and goalie situation to be honest.

We will have a more fun season if EP plays to his potential and thats really all Im hoping for at this point.

He should take a month off and he should get the best possible training next summer to rehab and strenghten his knee.

Here is Elias Pettersson literally saying he’s fine: “I had to train around my knee injury, but I feel great,” Pettersson said. “We figured out a way to work around it. I don’t feel any pain in it now or after [the skates], it’s not a big thing, knee is fine.” Canucks head coach Rick Tocchet says he’d love to bring Jaromir Jagr to Vancouver

Whether you choose to believe him and want to rant about it is your prerogative, but it’s not “facts” it’s your opinion.

“I still feel it (tendinitis) sometimes, but it feels good now — better than where we left off last season."




Like.... Do you SERIOUSLY believe he is playing healthy right now?

Because it sure sounds like that is what you are trying to say and that is the part where everyone is pushing back and where you look like a bit of a weirdo. Its not the part where you think he isnt playing up to his standards... Nobody disagrees with that.

 

[JT Milker]

I dont think we are a serious contender with this D core and goalie situation to be honest.

We will have a more fun season if EP plays to his potential and thats really all Im hoping for at this point.

He should take a month off and he should get the best possible training next summer to rehab and strenghten his knee.


“I still feel it (tendinitis) sometimes, but it feels good now — better than where we left off last season."




Like.... Do you SERIOUSLY believe he is playing healthy right now?

Because it sure sounds like that is what you are trying to say and that is the part where everyone is pushing back and where you look like a bit of a weirdo. Its not the part where you think he isnt playing up to his standards... Nobody disagrees with that.

All I said was your “facts” are not facts and that most people are not using facts in this thread. E.g., you said he never said he was fine, but he literally did, that’s a fact. Your “fact” is that he’s lying, which is your opinion. But spare everyone the holier than thou diary posts about the human condition

 

[racerjoe]

i think it's less he needs hughes than he can't play at 100% with myers/soucy/juulsen/forbort/friedman/brannstrom behind him

if the canucks had another puck moving dman who could even just tread water i think pettersson without hughes would look much better. it's very hard to generate offense when the only plays you can make are glass and out and when you can't rely on your defenders to pinch effectively to keep plays alive

This 100%. It deserves to be repeated.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

All I said was your “facts” are not facts and that most people are not using facts in this thread. E.g., you said he never said he was fine, but he literally did, that’s a fact. Your “fact” is that he’s lying, which is your opinion. But spare everyone the holier than thou diary posts about the human condition

You took his words out of context to suit your purpose.

Why?

Why not just stick with what is true? What end does this serve for you?

 

[Hodgy]

On the Pettersson and Hughes discussion, it should be universally accepted that player performance is going to be affected by the players a player plays with. So yes, I definitely accept that Pettersson would have more point and look better playing more with Hughes. But I think you can also still evaluate him in isolation, and when you watch him without Hughes, he doesn't look very good relative to how he could look. Like, are people just forgetting his rookie year where he looked fantastic and Hughes wasn't even in the NHL? I know the Canucks had better pucking moving defensemen then but we also had Travis Green coaching the team. So its worth acknowledging that Pettersson has looked awesome without Hughes and has certainly looked far better then he looks now.

The other key aspect is the fact that he's paid 11.6 million. The more you get paid, the less your performance should depend on other players.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

On the Pettersson and Hughes discussion, it should be universally accepted that player performance is going to be affected by the players a player plays with. So yes, I definitely accept that Pettersson would have more point and look better playing more with Hughes. But I think you can also still evaluate him in isolation, and when you watch him without Hughes, he doesn't look very good relative to how he could look. Like, are people just forgetting his rookie year where he looked fantastic and Hughes wasn't even in the NHL? I know the Canucks had better pucking moving defensemen then but we also had Travis Green coaching the team. So its worth acknowledging that Pettersson has looked awesome without Hughes and has certainly looked far better then he looks now.

The other key aspect is the fact that he's paid 11.6 million. The more you get paid, the less your performance should depend on other players.

He has lost his skating speed.

 

[Hodgy]

He has lost his skating speed.

Yes, 100% he isn't skating very well. Just like in his last big slump.

 

[iceburg]

Reading through the comments it seems a number of issues have been identified to explain Pettersson's current play. Last year is was that he didn't have adequate wingers. This year he isn't playing with Hughes. Or, he must be injured. or it's the Coach's system, or it's fans being too hard on him etc.

To me it seems that the reasons for his lack of being "1st year Petey" are bigger than any one single factor. While all of these factors contribute somewhat to production/performance, none explain his apparent disinterest. I say apparent because I honestly don't think he's trying to sluff off but that's certainly what it looks like. To me the bigger issue seems to be between the ears. You don't get a guy who has clearly shown an elite skill level and an ability to drive play suddenly losing that ability for an extended period (now going on 12 months).

If he really is who we thought he could become, the system and who he's playing with should not cause him to disappear for games or stretches of games only to show flashes.

The only forwards that are currently earning more than Pettersson are Matthews, McDavid, McKinnon, and Panarin. And therein lies the biggest issue. Expectations are based in large part on salary. At his current playing level he is a valuable, productive, player. He just can't be expected to be on that list with those players. I still hope, even believe, that he will become that player that drives play, that makes other players on his line look like stars rather than needing other players to make him a star. Who knows where this is going

 

[racerjoe]

Yes, 100% he isn't skating very well. Just like in his last big slump.

Again you mean when he was coming back from off season surgery?

Reading through the comments it seems a number of issues have been identified to explain Pettersson's current play. Last year is was that he didn't have adequate wingers. This year he isn't playing with Hughes. Or, he must be injured. or it's the Coach's system, or it's fans being too hard on him etc.

To me it seems that the reasons for his lack of being "1st year Petey" are bigger than any one single factor. While all of these factors contribute somewhat to production/performance, none explain his apparent disinterest. I say apparent because I honestly don't think he's trying to sluff off but that's certainly what it looks like. To me the bigger issue seems to be between the ears. You don't get a guy who has clearly shown an elite skill level and an ability to drive play suddenly losing that ability for an extended period (now going on 12 months).

If he really is who we thought he could become, the system and who he's playing with should not cause him to disappear for games or stretches of games only to show flashes.

The only forwards that are currently earning more than Pettersson are Matthews, McDavid, McKinnon, and Panarin. And therein lies the biggest issue. Expectations are based in large part on salary. At his current playing level he is a valuable, productive, player. He just can't be expected to be on that list with those players. I still hope, even believe, that he will become that player that drives play, that makes other players on his line look like stars rather than needing other players to make him a star. Who knows where this is going

You haven’t been reading the thread if this is what you are taking out of it.

 

[Hodgy]

Again you mean when he was coming back from off season surgery?

His wrist surgery? We've already discussed this, but I am just not going to buy that his skating was significantly affected by what was a relatively "minor" wrist injury (i.e., he didn't miss any games as I recall it). You are free to conclude otherwise, but its just too much for me.

 

[MS]

I really hate this argument consistently popping up here that somehow JT is taking away the "prime" minutes with Hughes away from Petey.

For the player Petey should be, all his minutes ARE the "prime" minutes.

People are talking about him like he is Elias Lindholm and needs to be put in a position where those around him can lift his game. He is supposed to be our Kucherov, or at least consistently be in that Nylander, Pasternak, Point tier. But right now I doubt even Carolina would trade Aho for him 1 for 1.

It's really embarassing comparing the consistent impact our 11.6 mil player provides compared to his cap hit equivalents.

This guys is paid to be a difference maker night in and night out and absolutely should not need to be on the ice with Hughes to make that happen.




Also, I am extra bitter, because last year everything went right for the Canucks and we had a legitimate chance at winning the cup. Even without Demko, if Petey played up to his potential we at least get by Edmonton.

It's almost like an $11 million superstar should be able to produce if he's playing with the team's 2nd defense pairing. It's the most pathetic excuse in history. Conor Garland also doesn't play with Hughes much. Pettersson has also mostly looked like crap when playing with Hughes for the past year. And on the PP with Hughes.

His wrist surgery? We've already discussed this, but I am just not going to buy that his skating was significantly affected by what was a relatively "minor" wrist injury (i.e., he didn't miss any games as I recall it). You are free to conclude otherwise, but its just too much for me.

Pettersson never had wrist surgery.

He had a 'jammed wrist'.

And yeah, the excuse now seems to be that that fairly minor wrist injury was causing him to skate slowly almost a year later.

 

[racerjoe]

His wrist surgery? We've already discussed this, but I am just not going to buy that his skating was significantly affected by what was a relatively "minor" wrist injury (i.e., he didn't miss any games as I recall it). You are free to conclude otherwise, but its just too much for me.

It can effect it if it stops you from training… or being able to train effectively.