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Player Discussion Elias Pettersson - Please, Be Civil

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Kryten said:
Yep. 2nd only to Ottawa in Canada. I was talking about the city but the average fan is as well
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So you tell me, why has it been an almost statistically impossible length of time since a Canadian team has won a cup?

Vancouver on average is just as bad as Toronto, we just won't have the volume that they do. Montreal has it's own special situation. I'd argue Edmonton has the worst per capita fans, but Calgary, Winnipeg, and Ottawa fans all treat their players better.
 
Ernie said:
So you tell me, why has it been an almost statistically impossible length of time since a Canadian team has won a cup?

Vancouver on average is just as bad as Toronto, we just won't have the volume that they do. Montreal has it's own special situation. I'd argue Edmonton has the worst per capita fans, but Calgary, Winnipeg, and Ottawa fans all treat their players better.
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Lots of reasons. Slimy owners, climate, taxes, a commissioner hell bent on money and US markets, wives, girlfriends, politics, healthcare. Fans being fans is a fart in the wind, especially compared to other sports
 
DFAC said:
Exactly, you just proved my point. They should be under more scrutiny because they are professional athletes making millions.

And your second point is very possible. Lots of examples of players doing that
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yep
Loui Eriksson
Oliver Ekman Pettersson
 
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Ernie said:
I love how people like to compare their jobs to high performing athletes. Unless you're like a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist or something, sit down, your daily existence is no comparison.

I'm sure Pettersson busted his ass for 20 years to be the athlete he is, just to cash in and kick up his legs as soon as he signed this contract.
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Dear Ernie,

STFU, kindly. Here in the fraser valley (no names needed), we have a handful of NHL stars and their parents. People work with them and chat. Sure they spent all their life fighting to get to be a star in a sport. However what the puck do you know about anyone's life, their struggles and wher they came from or how hard they fought to get where they are. Your sycophantic take that NO ONE "Unless you're like a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist or something, sit down, your daily existence is no comparison" leads me to think you know nothing of real life. Saying "I'm sure Pettersson busted his ass for 20 years to be the athlete he is, just to cash in and kick up his legs as soon as he signed this contract." is nothing but your cock sure opinion which I say you don't know nor do I so stop pretedning you do.

To the topic at hand, sports is sports. You get paid large amounts of money time and time again if you perform or out perform. I do happen to remember another swedish player (and god forbid this even unfold in any manner), a cetain name loui eriksson that perhaps did the above. Again I don't know for sure. Go ahed and talk the talk about your daily existence being no comparison, I got my own life and toughts on that mate.
 
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platotld said:
Dear Ernie,

STFU, kindly. Here in the fraser valley (no names needed), we have a handful of NHL stars and their parents. People work with them and chat. Sure they spent all their life fighting to get to be a star in a sport. However what the puck do you know about anyone's life, their struggles and wher they came from or how hard they fought to get where they are. Your sycophantic take that NO ONE "Unless you're like a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist or something, sit down, your daily existence is no comparison" leads me to think you know nothing of real life. Saying "I'm sure Pettersson busted his ass for 20 years to be the athlete he is, just to cash in and kick up his legs as soon as he signed this contract." is nothing but your cock sure opinion which I say you don't know nor do I so stop pretedning you do.

To the topic at hand, sports is sports. You get paid large amounts of money time and time again if you perform or out perform. I do happen to remember another swedish player (and god forbid this even unfold in any manner), a cetain name loui eriksson that perhaps did the above. Again I don't know for sure. Go ahed and talk the talk about your daily existence being no comparison, I got my own life and toughts on that mate.
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Thanks for this very substantive post.

PS. You have no idea the kind of dedication it takes to be a pro athlete like Pettersson.
 
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Weighing in to this thread with trepidation…
I’m afraid EP has shown who he is.
Amazing skill but not really interested in using it. When it’s easy, he is on his game. When it’s hard, he falls into the background.
My sense is that he’s at a little bit of a cross roads. He can find the spit and vinegar or he can choose to take the easy route.
Only one choice is worth $11.7M.
 
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Kryten said:
Lots of reasons. Slimy owners, climate, taxes, a commissioner hell bent on money and US markets, wives, girlfriends, politics, healthcare. Fans being fans is a fart in the wind, especially compared to other sports
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So we're reduced to Bettman having it out for Canada and wives don't like the climate. OK, checks out.
 
So, the not playing with Hughes thing is a bit of a red flag. It’s only a thing because we have literally no other defenders who can get the puck to our forwards. The other lines end up just chasing the play, and chasing the puck. It’s hard to do anything when you can’t get control or when you are it’s in a bad position.
 
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Ernie said:
So we're reduced to Bettman having it out for Canada and wives don't like the climate. OK, checks out.
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Reducing my points just makes you look silly. But theyre more believable than the cope some fans swallow because they think Canada and its 7 cities hold a candle to everything America can offer to the well off. Tough market is the talking point of inept owners and management use to excuse some of their poor performance.
 
Ernie said:
What markets draw 5k to games? Perhaps you're referring to the kinds of markets that have won all the recent Stanley Cups and also have much lower taxes.

If you're a fan that was outraged about these things and are going to be outraged when he asks for a trade, yes, you're a bad fan.
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Man I'm tapping out. I can't just be someone that wave pom-poms no matter how much a player is underperforming. Supportive, absolutely, but to not be able to critique when the player is playing bad lest being call a "bad fan"? I just can't...
 
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Kryten said:
Reducing my points just makes you look silly. But theyre more believable than the cope some fans swallow because they think Canada and its 7 cities hold a candle to everything America can offer to the well off. Tough market is the talking point of inept owners and management use to excuse some of their poor performance.
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There's no reason why owners and management are any worse in Canada than in the US.

The truth is that no one factor is 100% responsible, but you'd be blind to think that the fans are not a huge factor.
 
racerjoe said:
So, the not playing with Hughes thing is a bit of a red flag. It’s only a thing because we have literally no other defenders who can get the puck to our forwards. The other lines end up just chasing the play, and chasing the puck. It’s hard to do anything when you can’t get control or when you are it’s in a bad position.
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If JTM's line takes up most of Hughes's time, then by extension Garland is also not getting Hughes's minutes. Yet he is able to drive offense no matter what. Even when Garland was playing with Petey early this year, playing with the same D EP plays with, you can see which of the 2 is still contributing and making plays, and which is "just there".

If a $5m winger can play to his contract (arguably above) without a Hart candidate on the ice, why can't our $11.6m player?
 
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sandwichbird2023 said:
Man I'm tapping out. I can't just be someone that wave pom-poms no matter how much a player is underperforming. Supportive, absolutely, but to not be able to critique when the player is playing bad lest being call a "bad fan"? I just can't...
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I said you're a bad fan if you were angry at him for not signing, are now angry at him for signing, and are going to be angry at him when he inevitably asks for a trade.

It's this kind of outrage that means a player is going to hate playing here unless he is paid significantly under his value, because as soon as he inevitably drops below his salary level for some stretch, he's going to be public enemy #1 for the fanbase.
 
Ernie said:
There's no reason why owners and management are any worse in Canada than in the US.

The truth is that no one factor is 100% responsible, but you'd be blind to think that the fans are not a huge factor.
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Which player(s) on Canadian teams was traded with fans being "a huge factor"? Can you provide a few examples?
 
sandwichbird2023 said:
Which player(s) on Canadian teams was traded with fans being "a huge factor"? Can you provide a few examples?
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Players have made it clear playing in a Canadian market is difficult due to the fans. Nobody is going to come out and directly say they wanted a trade due to it.
 
Ernie said:
I said you're a bad fan if you were angry at him for not signing, are now angry at him for signing, and are going to be angry at him when he inevitably asks for a trade.

It's this kind of outrage that means a player is going to hate playing here unless he is paid significantly under his value, because as soon as he inevitably drops below his salary level for some stretch, he's going to be public enemy #1 for the fanbase.
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You can't just lump everybody together. There might be some that are angry at him for his tactics and attitude prior to signing, some might be angry at him for underperforming to this degree after his extension, and I'm sure some will be angry if he asked for a trade out. But the number of people that fits into all 3 categories are miniscule.

If Petey forced out because a few people hit all 3 categories and, therefore as per you, are "bad fans", then Petey really shouldn't play in a market that cares about hockey.

Again I don't think Petey thinks like that.

Ernie said:
Players have made it clear playing in a Canadian market is difficult due to the fans. Nobody is going to come out and directly say they wanted a trade due to it.
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So no examples then? No cases of fans being a "huge factor" other than your assumption?
 
sandwichbird2023 said:
You can't just lump everybody together. There might be some that are angry at him for his tactics and attitude prior to signing, some might be angry at him for underperforming to this degree after his extension, and I'm sure some will be angry if he asked for a trade out. But the number of people that fits into all 3 categories are miniscule.

If Petey forced out because a few people hit all 3 categories and, therefore as per you, are "bad fans", then Petey really shouldn't play in a market that cares about hockey.

Again I don't think Petey thinks like that.
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I can name plenty of fans on this message board that are angry at Pettersson for both things and I'd be shocked they don't take him asking for a trade as a personal insult.

I don't think any player would want to play here with the kind of hate he's receiving. Why would you do that when you can have a nice career somewhere else?
 
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sandwichbird2023 said:
If JTM's line takes up most of Hughes's time, then by extension Garland is also not getting Hughes's minutes. Yet he is able to drive offense no matter what. Even when Garland was playing with Petey early this year, playing with the same D EP plays with, you can see which of the 2 is still contributing and making plays, and which is "just there".

If a $5m winger can play to his contract (arguably above) without a Hart candidate on the ice, why can't our $11.6m player?
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I would start by saying he is having a great season, and there is no complaints about his play from me. However his possession numbers are similar to Pettersson’s.

So watching the game what I notice is Garland has gotten much better this year at not just gaining the zone (he was always good at that) but then holding the puck and making the plays. There is definitely more offense he has been giving there, then on top of that he has been getting pp1 time and this too has raised his numbers.

Now as has been talked about with Pettersson, the two things he doesn’t seem to have back yet are his speed and his shot. The speed hurts him most in terms of getting the puck into the offensive zone, so the fact is possession numbers are close to the same as Garlands is impressive. He is doing it in other ways.

I have long been in the camp that said Pettersson was hurt, then was proved correct about that. Now this year, I have been saying it is from his injury that has caused his issues (I have not tried to claim he isn’t playing as good as he could). Right from the beginning of the year he said he had to change how he trains, the stats have shown he has been skating much slower and shooting both less and not as hard. It’s a lot like the season he came back from surgery.

What I really like is he has been finding other ways to be effective. Then when given the chance with our only defender who can get him the puck has shown he can still put up points.

People wanting perfection all the time are crazy. There will be highs and lows, the key is to try and help players and to do this you have to understand what’s going on, both to that player and on the ice. It’s not an excuse, it’s we need to help these players so they can be better.
 
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Canadian teams have been in 7 cup finals in the last 30yrs. Before that won 12 of 20yrs.

Mostly the ineptitude has been due to impatience and allowing outside pressures effect sound business and on ice decisions
AzNightmare said:
I believe that wasn't from the fans themselves, but players/fans from other teams.
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They were called that by Neil McRae from NW if i remember correctly.
 
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