Player Discussion Elias Pettersson - Please, Be Civil

[Bobby9]

Depending on the return… I’m very open to trading Pettersson, I don’t think the spotlight is for him. He doesn’t seem to want to be here.

When you step back it’s fairly easy to see when it all went down hill.

EP was determined to play out the season and didn’t want to talk about the contract.

The media, management and fan noise for way too loud and he ended up signing mid season. He’s never been the same.

I think he felt forced via the pressure to sign and generally just doesn’t want to play here. It’s in his body language and his play. He’s simply unhappy.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Like context and nuance that the GM of the Canucks might have?

Its takes an incredible amount of hubris to be so confident in an opinion on a Vancouver Canucks player that is so anomalous to the opinion of the GM of the Canucks

Like this: Rutherford also says "he didn’t know if the possibility of a trade ignited Pettersson’s willingness to sign a new deal."...? No, let's just ignore the POH's implication about the player... "An incredible amount of hubris" indeed.




Now it's 'believe the aligned GM-Coach-JT Miller' triumvirate over the player who said he had to work around a nagging injury in the offseason. The same management that was in danger of a Tanner Pearson grievance due to medical malpractice.

The same coach who to this day is getting called out by JPat about overplaying Demko toward his latest injury. Management put it back on the player by implying he was over-training.

And now Hughes goes down and Tocchet is again getting called out for playing him while he may have been injured.

There is zero chance management-coach are above reproach with regards to injuries. Zero. At best, it's a gray area where nothing definitive can result from a lack of information.

 

[Kryten]

When you step back it’s fairly easy to see when it all went down hill.

EP was determined to play out the season and didn’t want to talk about the contract.

The media, management and fan noise for way too loud and he ended up signing mid season. He’s never been the same.

I think he felt forced via the pressure to sign and generally just doesn’t want to play here. It’s in his body language and his play. He’s simply unhappy.

Possibly. Or maybe hes just a perfectionist and struggles or checks out when things arent 100% on or off ice in his life. That could include any injuries.

 

[geebster]

Possibly. Or maybe hes just a perfectionist and struggles or checks out when things arent 100% on or off ice in his life. That could include any injuries.

That lines up with most of what Allvin said. He was critiquing Peteys mental toughness/maturity in handling increased adversity. That could be injuries or tougher competition/more focus from the market and opponents. This is a perfect case for the team to find a sports psych that he will trust and working with him. If he gets his mental game right hes a bonafide superstar, but he gets in his own way a ton and its brutally obvious from the outside (and explicitly stated by the GM now).

 

[Bobby9]

Possibly. Or maybe hes just a perfectionist and struggles or checks out when things arent 100% on or off ice in his life. That could include any injuries.

Great. Either he’s unhappy or a headcase who folds like a Dollarama tent. Nightmare contract.

 

[Kryten]

Great. Either he’s unhappy or a headcase who folds like a Dollarama tent. Nightmare contract.

Its not ideal but hopefully something that can be worked out either way. It sure wouldve been nice for Petey to still be on a 8m a year contract for 8 years instead of Bennings contract that he painted himself into a corner with running out of money that summer

 

[rypper]

Possibly. Or maybe hes just a perfectionist and struggles or checks out when things arent 100% on or off ice in his life. That could include any injuries.

When you think of how Pettersson was when he first broke his way onto the team i think this is closer to the truth. The alien stuff. The staying hours after practice to work on things, influencing teammates to do the same (except the 6m dollar man Loui Eriksson. ) The need for constant improvement.

 

[Kryten]

When you think of how Pettersson was when he first broke his way onto the team i think this is closer to the truth. The alien stuff. The staying hours after practice to work on things, influencing teammates to do the same (except the 6m dollar man Loui Eriksson. ) The need for constant improvement.

Putting the tism in activism

 

[Bleach Clean]

Possibly. Or maybe hes just a perfectionist and struggles or checks out when things arent 100% on or off ice in his life. That could include any injuries.

This is more likely, but again, who knows?

I've seen this movie play out with guys like Eichel. It doesn't end well for the team trading the elite talent.

Right now, I think Pettersson is in an arduous position. JTM was seen as the wildcard/headcase during Horvat's tenure, but when Rutherford/Allvin took over, they adopted JTM's mantra as their own. They then traded Horvat. Have allowed the room to police itself. And now Pettersson's personality is the outlier in a room growing more JTM-like (just a guess).

 

[Canucks LB]

No doubt in my mind that Rutherford and Allvin would rather trade EP40 over JT Miller

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Like context and nuance that the GM of the Canucks might have?

Its takes an incredible amount of hubris to be so confident in an opinion on a Vancouver Canucks player that is so anomalous to the opinion of the GM of the Canucks, and the coach for that matter. And to go so far as suggesting that anyone who can’t see that Pettersson’s bad play is due to injury is “deliberately, wilfully, and in bad faith blind” is hilarious given how far off the mark this seems to be in Alvin’s eyes.

And how is this gamesmanship? Like, Allvin, in your world, knows Pettersson’s bad play is due to injury but is going to call him out publicly and embarrass him because that’s going to make him play better? How does that make any sense?

Delusion? Ya, either Allvin or you are deluded, but it’s definitely the GM of the Canucks…right? Couldn’t possibly be that you are missing some nuance or context?

Nah.
Its very simple.
The canuck staff you listed get advice from the health department that f***s stuff up constantly.

No hubris needed.

Then the conspiracy theorists just happen to be the same people who were conspiracy theorists the last time EP was struggling with an injury.... You make it sound something really wild when its not.

We have a very bad med staff for the team we follow. This is true for me until something happens that will change my mind.

 

[Kryten]

This is more likely, but again, who knows?

I've seen this movie play out with guys like Eichel. It doesn't end well for the team trading the elite talent.

Right now, I think Pettersson is in an arduous position. JTM was seen as the wildcard/headcase during Horvat's tenure, but when Rutherford/Allvin took over, they adopted JTM's mantra as their own. They then traded Horvat. Have allowed the room to police itself. And now Pettersson's personality is the outlier in a room growing more JTM-like (just a guess).

And it doesnt have to be between Miller and Petey. The team doesnt need to sulk and go invisible like Petey, and they dont need to yell and check out like Miller. They need to put their head down and do their best like Hughes

 

[Kryten]

Allvin trying to calm the fans and journalists

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

When calling Pettersson weak and not Miller, your response is Miller is weak for the last 2 goals...

Yeah that weak player… vs the big strong one who was at fault for the last two goals…

When saying Pettersson hasn't produced in 6 games, but somehow Pettersson is still out playing him in your eyes, and purposely leaving out Miller's 6th game to make your comment look better for some reason to defend Pettersson still.

That right… and still out playing him… how sad is that, the guy with zero points is way out playing the guy, who has 2 pts in his last five…

No I didn't miss anything, because your previous replies were trying to defend Pettersson still while he was struggling.

You pretty much missed everything I said and the point of my comment… none of this changes a thing I said…

Now I will acknowledge throughout this topic you have brought up some points about Pettersson not playing great and needs to be better, but you also seemed to try some excuses for his off season training from a couple seasons ago with his wrist injury, but what about the off season the following year? You were still trying to defend him in those quotes I quoted you for some bizarre reason. It just seems you're going back and forth to defend both stances for some reason and that really makes no sense at all.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

hes not back until his knee is healthy

The same one that's been healthy all season.... The one Pettersson said wasn't a problem going into training camp and pre-season before the season started.

 

[sting101]

Allvin trying to calm the fans and journalists

For some reason this just keeps cracking me up. Did he really trail that gas back to the downside of that pile and then light it? HAHAHAHAHA

About as good as this guy

 

[F A N]

•Was not aware of how hard it was going to be to prepare for the season

^I find this quote by Allvin regarding Pettersson some what alarming. Going into your 7th NHL season after receiving a massive 11.6 million dollar deal "The highest in Canuck history". You would think Pettersson would know what it takes going forward into this season. Allvin also states that Pettersson has some maturing to do. It almost makes it sound like Pettersson barely trains in the offseason and doesn't take his hockey career too seriously. Maybe falling just as much as he did in his rookie year says something.

Is Allvin/Rutherford starting to question Pettersson's character? It starting to sound that way.

Not sure if I read it the same way you did. I read his "how hard it was going to be" part as the amount of focus that would be on him, how hard it would be to produce through that and the type of mental preparation etc it takes to break through that. Reason I read it that way is the part about life getting harder and feeling the pressure once you sign a big deal etc.
...
It doesnt read to me that hes questioning Peteys off season training or conditioning but moreso his mental preparation and toughness. He absolutely is calling Petey out in a fairly mild mannered way but doing so in a you have to mature and take the reins even when the pressure is on sorta way.

I just want to say that at the start of last season when Petey showed a physical side that we didn't quite see before, many were praising Petey for looking stronger than he ever looked.

 

[StickShift]

Everything here tracks with my theory that EP's extension last season was not his desired outcome. Nor did Vancouver perceive that signing him to the contract was a resolution. Allvin/Rutherford perceived it as kicking the ball down the field.

Let's face it — Pettersson's effort on the ice and attitude off of it continue to reflect a player that doesn't seem fully invested in being part of this team. His actions leading up to re-signing his contract last season strongly suggested he was a player hoping to "Tkachuk" his way out, and it seems likely he only re-signed because his inconsistency was starting to hurt his earning potential.

I suspect JP Barry and Pat Brisson had a come-to-jesus moment where they told him that he might not get his payday anywhere if he kept underperforming and that it would probably be wise to lock into the money the Canucks were offering now. He was given the choice of financial security over maintaining control of his destination. It feels to me like he regretted that decision from the moment that he made it. It carried through the end of the regular season, the playoffs, and into this year.

From the team's perspective, it seems clear that management understood the dynamic. Signing him to that deal likely wasn't about long-term commitment but rather about maximizing his trade value. A 1C with term is far more valuable on the trade market than a 1.5-year rental, and it’s possible the Canucks signed him fully aware that they might still need to move him down the line. Part of what they are doing right now is priming the market for a bidding war.

 

[jkutswings]

Red Wings fan coming in peace.

1) If there's a better thread for this, please let me know and I'll redirect the conversation there.
2) I'm genuinely not trying to kick a hornet's nest here. I understand the roller coaster fans are on, and that ideally the front office just shuts up and makes good decisions while the players stay in Vancouver and succeed.

Having said all that, if things continue to snowball and the Canucks do honestly entertain trading Pettersson, what would be some realistic pieces they would want in return?

You're not going to steal Celebrini or Bedard, but you're not going to be insulted with another team's garbage either. So rather than specific names, let's keep it to general positions and tiers - something like, a 1C/2C, plus a top 4 defenseman, plus a first round pick. That at least makes it possible for an honest attempt at trade discussion, instead of everybody talking past one another.

Again, I'm not dancing on any graves. Just curious about what teams might be a fit, both for Pettersson and for the right assets in return if this thing goes fully pear-shaped. Thanks and good luck.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Everything here tracks with my theory that EP's extension last season was not his desired outcome. Nor did Vancouver perceive that signing him to the contract was a resolution. Allvin/Rutherford perceived it as kicking the ball down the field.

Let's face it — Pettersson's effort on the ice and attitude off of it continue to reflect a player that doesn't seem fully invested in being part of this team. His actions leading up to re-signing his contract last season strongly suggested he was a player hoping to "Tkachuk" his way out, and it seems likely he only re-signed because his inconsistency was starting to hurt his earning potential.

I suspect JP Barry and Pat Brisson had a come-to-jesus moment where they told him that he might not get his payday anywhere if he kept underperforming and that it would probably be wise to lock into the money the Canucks were offering now. He was given the choice of financial security over maintaining control of his destination. It feels to me like he regretted that decision from the moment that he made it. It carried through the end of the regular season, the playoffs, and into this year.

From the team's perspective, it seems clear that management understood the dynamic. Signing him to that deal likely wasn't about long-term commitment but rather about maximizing his trade value. A 1C with term is far more valuable on the trade market than a 1.5-year rental, and it’s possible the Canucks signed him fully aware that they might still need to move him down the line. Part of what they are doing right now is priming the market for a bidding war.

This also supports the “not injured” theory because there was a reasonable expectation that he could “figure things out” and return to form.

You’d be significantly more likely to commit to to a player who just needs to buckle down and re-focus opposed to one who’s dealing with an alleged “chronic injury that cannot be healed with rest or surgery.”

They probably hoped that giving him the money and term would remove a major distraction for him and cause him to really commit to succeeding with the organization over the long term.

 

[ReHabs]

Hi guys trying to do some reading and research. I saw some graphic showing a harsh change between his production and fancy stats before and after a certain date in the 23-24 season. The decline started prior to his penning of the contract extension.

Does anyone know where I can read more analysis of this seemingly massive change and what are some theories to the cause of the change?

I glanced at a post speculating it was post-concussion. Anyone care to help?

 

[SillyRabbit]

Hi guys trying to do some reading and research. I saw some graphic showing a harsh change between his production and fancy stats before and after a certain date in the 23-24 season. The decline started prior to his penning of the contract extension.

Does anyone know where I can read more analysis of this seemingly massive change and what are some theories to the cause of the change?

I glanced at a post speculating it was post-concussion. Anyone care to help?

There’s no specific incident in question.

In fact, I can tell you from watching all of his games that even in November 2023, while he was still a PPG player for the month, I was speculating that he was injured because by the eye test, his play had dropped off quite a bit.

His on ice play was on the decline even before his production dropped off.

Injuries seemed to be a very reasonable explanation at the time, but much less so now after a year has gone by and he’s been called out by managment and coaching staff for his play (which you wouldn’t do if you knew that his lack of performance was not his fault), while also never missing a single game until Saturday.

 

[ReHabs]

There’s no specific incident in question.

In fact, I can tell you from watching all of his games that even in November 2023, while he was still a PPG player for the month, I was speculating that he was injured because by the eye test, his play had dropped off quite a bit.

His on ice play was on the decline even before his production dropped off.

Injuries seemed to be a very reasonable explanation at the time, but much less so now after a year has gone by and he’s been called out by managment and coaching staff for his play (which you wouldn’t do if you knew that his lack of performance was not his fault), while also never missing a single game until Saturday.

So if it isn’t a physical problem (and it isn’t concussion related) — then conceivably a change of air could be the answer for him?

 

[SillyRabbit]

So if it isn’t a physical problem (and it isn’t concussion related) — then conceivably a change of air could be the answer for him?

That’s the theory. Seems like management thought he could figure it out here, but so far he hasn’t.

To be clear, there are fans still clinging onto the idea that he’s suffering from chronic tendinitis, in an attempt to explain why he’s underperforming yet hasn’t missed any games, but that really has fallen apart with the latest Allvin interview.

There’s a chance that a team trades for Pettersson and he turns it around, becomes a top 10 center again and makes them look very smart for trading for him. You’re basically hoping for an Eichel-like scenario here.

I’d expect that Allvin will be looking to trade him to a team that values him as a potential top 10 center rather than what he’s shown lately with the Canucks.

 

[ReHabs]

That’s the theory. Seems like management thought he could figure it out here, but so far he hasn’t.

To be clear, there are fans still clinging onto the idea that he’s suffering from chronic tendinitis, in an attempt to explain why he’s underperforming yet hasn’t missed any games, but that really has fallen apart with the latest Allvin interview.

There’s a chance that a team trades for Pettersson and he turns it around, becomes a top 10 center again and makes them look very smart for trading for him. You’re basically hoping for an Eichel-like scenario here.

I’d expect that Allvin will be looking to trade him to a team that values him as a potential top 10 center rather than what he’s shown lately with the Canucks.

Could it be his two hot seasons were a mirage or lightning in a bottle?

Maybe Allvin has buyer’s remorse and is quickly trying to convince the rest of the league to bid for him in order to get out from under the cap commitment?

I see a range of outcomes: Eichel to Gomez