Player Discussion Elias Lindholm

[Regress2TheMeme]

I'm not averse to going 3 lines deep...so long as each of them has the horses to produce. We tried being 3 deep in the post season, but it resulted in basically two lines instead. You can't have two guys with close to zero hockey IQ playing next to Petey, its a recipe for disaster.

With the cap situation being what it is, I don't know how Petey gets a legitimate top 6 winger if we go into that setup, while also making sure the defense stays strong too.

Zadorov there's a proven model here that our coaching staff is able to turn big, rangy dmen into the best versions of themselves (Myers being the prime example of that, and big Z following in his footsteps). Hard to tell if the playoffs was the best version of Lindholm, or a blip on the radar.

I wonder if having 3 great centers can give the Canucks a leg up when it comes to singing winger free agents. They might get some qaulity wingers seeing the organization as a place they can go to build their value up again since they would be guaranteed to play with someone very good unless they totally bomb and end up on the 4th line.

 

[Nucker101]

I like the player, especially with how he showed us that he had a "playoff gear" but 7x7 is a big yikes

 

[Hodgy]

Ya, the only way I bring back Lindhilm is if he takes pretty severe discount.

 

[F A N]

Management needs to evaluate whether Lindholm is coming off a poor season or it is a sign of things to come. Last season, without Gaudreau and Tkachuk, he still put up 22 goals and 64 points and good defensively. Very comparable the player management saw in Horvat.

 

[VanillaCoke]

100% buying a Lindholm sweater this summer if he signs extension

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I think he’s ultimately better than a half PP guy, but I think the questions are - how much better, and where does he play? Does he play C on the second line, with Petey on the wing? Or does he move to wing with Petey playing C? Or do you run three scoring lines, and out Lindholm back with Garland, and still need to get Petey some scoring wingers?

I think Lindholm brings a lot of intangibles you want. Strong playoff play, strong defensive play, offensive skill, shutdown ability, faceoff strength, can play wing or C - so the appeal is easy to see.

The idea of Lindholm, Petey and someone else sounds appealing on paper. Moving Petey to the wing would allow him more space to be creative, especially with a legitimate scoring threat while Lindholm takes on the more responsible aspects of center. It's just a matter of how we make all that work cap wise.

Hronek really feels like he's gone already at this point. If Zadorov and Lindholm actually take discounts, I can't exactly fault management in dropping the one guy who wants to squeeze us. Granted, we still don't know about Joshua.

 

[bossram]

I wonder if having 3 great centers can give the Canucks a leg up when it comes to singing winger free agents. They might get some qaulity wingers seeing the organization as a place they can go to build their value up again since they would be guaranteed to play with someone very good unless they totally bomb and end up on the 4th line.

It won't when they have zero cap space left to sign said wingers.

Ya, the only way I bring back Lindhilm is if he takes pretty severe discount.

Has to be the ROR deal: ~5M x 4 years.

Anything above that, walk. 7x7 is ludicrous.

 

[Hodgy]

It won't when they have zero cap space left to sign said wingers.


Has to be the ROR deal: ~5M x 4 years.

Anything above that, walk. 7x7 is ludicrous.

Ya. Although ROR is older so you could arguably give him more term. But I also think, at least during his prime, ROR is on different level than Lindholm.

But I also think, given how Lindholm has trended the last two years, it would be a massive gamble to sign him long term unless it’s at a huge gamble.
The Canucks have two top six centres and I don’t know if they have the luxury to have more. I’d target a top tier winger, if possible, and if not available, I’d make sure to save some cap space for an in season trade in the event one comes available (e.g., Tkachuk).

 

[VanJack]

Reports circulating now, that Lindholm's camp has turned down a $7m offer on a long term deal from the Canucks.

The sad fact is that with some players--all it's about the money. The Canucks 'competitive window' appears to be wide open right now. You'd think any player who's primary goal in life is a shot at the Cup, would want to come here.

But there's also no doubt that teams in U.S. markets can offer more money; with better tax advantages. And Boston appears to be the favored destination. But their window to compete is closing rapidly.....and nothing much in their pipeline.

But for some guys just cashing big paychecks and setting themselves for life, is more important than competing for a Cup. I suppose you can't blame them. Playing in a relatively vacuous market, with no public pressure and probably no playoff hockey for wear and tear on the body.

Fans have to remember that the NHL is a 'business', pure and simple.

 

[theguardianII]

Reports circulating now, that Lindholm's camp has turned down a $7m offer on a long term deal from the Canucks.

The sad fact is that with some players--all it's about his the money. The Canucks 'competitive window' appears to be wide open right now. You'd think any player who's primary goal in life is a shot at the Cup, would want to come here.

But there's also no doubt that teams in U.S. markets can offer more money; with better tax advantages. And Boston appears to be the favored destination. But their window to compete is closing rapidly.....and nothing much in their pipeline.

But for some guys just cashing big paychecks and setting themselves for life, is more important than competing for a Cup. I suppose you can't blame them. Playing in a relatively vacuous market, with no public pressure and probably no playoff hockey for wear and tear on the body.

Fans have to remember that the NHL is a 'business', pure and simple.

Really, he wouldn't be the help Pettersson needs on the wing. He's got a few seasons under his belt too, maybe one or two too many.
Better to put that money into Necas, younger and almost a point per game. There are probably other young guys buried behind players too, Columbus has a few.

 

[Regal]

Yes we should look at Bergeron here. We here that teams may be willing to pay Lindholm $8M a season, but that doesn't mean at his age you give him 8/64 or 7/56. Bergeron's actual annual pay on his last contract was $8.75x4, $6.875x1, and $4.375x3, for a 6.875 cap hit over 8 years.

Unless you're going to go full Jim Benning any long term Elias Lindholm contract should have a similar structure.

Lindholm at 29 is also significantly worse player than Bergeron was at 38, let alone at 29

 

[CanucksSayEh]

The team couldn't muster 3 scoring lines with EP at 7 milly, and EL at 5

Not likely to change after giving them big raises.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Reports circulating now, that Lindholm's camp has turned down a $7m offer on a long term deal from the Canucks.

The sad fact is that with some players--all it's about the money. The Canucks 'competitive window' appears to be wide open right now. You'd think any player who's primary goal in life is a shot at the Cup, would want to come here.

But there's also no doubt that teams in U.S. markets can offer more money; with better tax advantages. And Boston appears to be the favored destination. But their window to compete is closing rapidly.....and nothing much in their pipeline.

But for some guys just cashing big paychecks and setting themselves for life, is more important than competing for a Cup. I suppose you can't blame them. Playing in a relatively vacuous market, with no public pressure and probably no playoff hockey for wear and tear on the body.

Fans have to remember that the NHL is a 'business', pure and simple.

We, as it stands, are not a cup favourite.

Someone skipping town is not a sign of them choosing money over the cup.

 

[Cancuks]

Fingers crossed this management doesn't repeat the mistakes of the previous regime. Signing a declining Lindholm to $7 million x 7 years and having him and Miller well into their late 30s is a Benning type move. Need to make room for a young center whose ready to take over for Miller when he eventually slows down. Whether we can acquire one through trade or if Raty develops I don't know but third line centers can be acquired fairly cheaply and replaced easily.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Fingers crossed this management doesn't repeat the mistakes of the previous regime. Signing a declining Lindholm to $7 million x 7 years and having him and Miller well into their late 30s is a Benning type move. Need to make room for a young center whose ready to take over for Miller when he eventually slows down. Whether we can acquire one through trade or if Raty develops I don't know but third line centers can be acquired fairly cheaply and replaced easily.

I feel like our window to contend is tied to Miller performing at an elite level.

So maximising the next ~3 years should be the priority.

That 3 years is also what we have Quinn Hughes on a high way robbery of a deal. So to me now is go time. I would keep moving prospects and picks for immediate help to try to cram as much talent under the cap as possible.

Its really rough that the big OEL buyout cap hit years coincide with the last 2 years of this 3 year window.

 

[RobertKron]

Fingers crossed this management doesn't repeat the mistakes of the previous regime. Signing a declining Lindholm to $7 million x 7 years and having him and Miller well into their late 30s is a Benning type move. Need to make room for a young center whose ready to take over for Miller when he eventually slows down. Whether we can acquire one through trade or if Raty develops I don't know but third line centers can be acquired fairly cheaply and replaced easily.

They're not going to get a young 100pt two-way centre in the next couple few years to "make room" for unless it's by complete random chance, or the team absolutely, colossally shits the bed, so IMO that's probably not something they need to really plan for.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

They're not going to get a young 100pt two-way centre in the next couple few years to "make room" for unless it's by complete random chance, or the team absolutely, colossally shits the bed, so IMO that's probably not something they need to really plan for.

I know you are exaggerating to make a point but its very likely they need a top6 center to get the most out of Miller once he starts to decline.

 

[RobertKron]

I know you are exaggerating to make a point but its very likely they need a top6 center to get the most out of Miller once he starts to decline.

Every team needs a young top 6 centre in a couple years.

 

[oceanchild]

It won't when they have zero cap space left to sign said wingers.


Has to be the ROR deal: ~5M x 4 years.

Anything above that, walk. 7x7 is ludicrous.

I would have been happy with ROR on that deal and everyone thought it was a bad deal. I don’t think it was or will be. I also don’t think a $7m x 7 is going to play out poorly. Front load the pay in case you need to trade him later, and with the cap going up a lot for the next two or three years as well as this year, it will be the price of a third line center in a couple years. It’s harder to get center depth than wingers and we only have 3 top 6 forwards without Lindholm. If you can move Mikheyev and Garland you have plenty to sign a big name free agent. I get no one wants to move garland, but a smallish third liner making $5m in the wing (play driver or not) isn’t what is going to take this team to the promise land. We need consistency in scoring that doesn’t involve a PDO that is historically good.

 

[David71]

could he take a klingberg type deal and bank on himself. i dont see vancouver giving him 7x7 its very risky. or some other team can offer him more. need help on the wings. centers are easier to find in trade later on in the season. let him go.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Every team needs a young top 6 centre in a couple years.

I do not understand what point you are trying to make.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

could he take a klingberg type deal and bank on himself. i dont see vancouver giving him 7x7 its very risky. or some other team can offer him more. need help on the wings. centers are easier to find in trade later on in the season. let him go.

I don’t see him doing that. His playoff salvaged his sub par regular season, and there will definitely be a few teams lining up to give him both term and a hefty salary.

 

[wetcoast]

I like the player, especially with how he showed us that he had a "playoff gear" but 7x7 is a big yikes

This is basically how I feel, although at times I try to pretend that the cap going up each year might mitigate the term but still 7X7 just seems like bad asset management to me.

I mean I see the strategic reasons for singing him but that downside seems more likely in the long run but who knows I thought the JT Miller contract would end up biting us in the ass and I was wrong about that.

 

[kcunac]

It’s just hard to understand giving 7 years to a player whose offensive game is already clearly on the decline.

 

[bossram]

I would have been happy with ROR on that deal and everyone thought it was a bad deal. I don’t think it was or will be. I also don’t think a $7m x 7 is going to play out poorly. Front load the pay in case you need to trade him later, and with the cap going up a lot for the next two or three years as well as this year, it will be the price of a third line center in a couple years. It’s harder to get center depth than wingers and we only have 3 top 6 forwards without Lindholm. If you can move Mikheyev and Garland you have plenty to sign a big name free agent. I get no one wants to move garland, but a smallish third liner making $5m in the wing (play driver or not) isn’t what is going to take this team to the promise land. We need consistency in scoring that doesn’t involve a PDO that is historically good.

I thought the ROR deal was fine. Term wasn't crazy and the AAV was lower than I expected. Lindholm is an inferior player to ROR and paying him drastically more is just bananas. Lindholm isn't even worth $7M today, let alone into his 30s.

I think if you have to justify a signing with, "well yeah we know it'll age badly so here's how we can prepare to get out it....", it's not a good signing.

If you sign Lindholm, the team isn't really going to have the space to add any other top-six wingers. Bringing back Lindholm only makes any sense if he's going to be a top-six fixture. Trading Garland to make room is just dumb, and I've had many other back-and-forth posts about that. Garland's already giving them 1st line ES calibre play at $5M. They're not going to find another more cost-efficient top-six forward than that. He was also very effective in the playoffs. You want non-PDO scoring, that's Garland.