Euro Hockey Tour: EHT 2020-2021 • Channel One Cup • Dec. 17-20 [CZE/FIN/RUS/SWE]

[SoundAndFury]

Have you noticed I was talking about leagues? I guess not.

Have you noticed teams like Riga or Neftekhimik are part of the league? Guess not. And those could hardly beat the worst team on the SHL. So if the bottom teams are at the same level, how is the KHL by far the best?

NHL is so good because most players would rather play on the worst team there than any other league. KHL bottom teams are made up of players who have nowhere else to go. I'm fully aware it has 5 teams that can get all the players and have 4 times the player budget other teams in Europe do. To me, that's not enough to think it's the best league BY FAR.

 

[Atas2000]

Have you noticed teams like Riga or Neftekhimik are part of the league? Guess not. And those could hardly beat the worst team on the SHL. So if the bottom teams are at the same level, how is the KHL by far the best?

NHL is so good because most players would rather play on the worst team there than any other league. KHL bottom teams are made up of players who have nowhere else to go. I'm fully aware it has 5 teams that can get all the players and have 4 times the player budget other teams in Europe do. To me, that's not enough to think it's the best league BY FAR.

Stop trying. Every team is a part of a league. every player is a part of a team. But you don't judge teams by one player and leagues by one team. Neftekhimik will destroy most SHL teams easily. Live with it and let it rest.

On the average the KHL is BY FAR the best league in Europe. Let it rest.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Neftekhimik will destroy most SHL teams easily. Live with it and let it rest.

Delusional...

I guess I will give it a rest.

 

[Lambo]

Stop trying. Every team is a part of a league. every player is a part of a team. But you don't judge teams by one player and leagues by one team. Neftekhimik will destroy most SHL teams easily. Live with it and let it rest.

On the average the KHL is BY FAR the best league in Europe. Let it rest.

I doubt that! Many players who have barely gained a foothold in the NHL play big in the KHL. Also many players from the SHL and Liiga have no problems acclimatizing in the KHL. The results of KHL clubs in the Spengler Cup (yes I know is unimportant, but the frequency of failure is amazing) are mediocre. A Russian KHL team in Sochi in 2018 almost lost the final to a German DEL team (and even at home). So the KHL can't be that strong. Second strongest league in the world, yes, but much closer to the SHL than you think.

 

[vorky]

Have you noticed teams like Riga or Neftekhimik are part of the league? Guess not. And those could hardly beat the worst team on the SHL. So if the bottom teams are at the same level, how is the KHL by far the best?

NHL is so good because most players would rather play on the worst team there than any other league. KHL bottom teams are made up of players who have nowhere else to go. I'm fully aware it has 5 teams that can get all the players and have 4 times the player budget other teams in Europe do. To me, that's not enough to think it's the best league BY FAR.

The most important question is if that worst team on the SHL would even survive the KHL scheduling & travelling. And if that worst team on the SHL would even have enough money to skate a team on that level.

 

[Atas2000]

I doubt that! Many players who have barely gained a foothold in the NHL play big in the KHL. Also many players from the SHL and Liiga have no problems acclimatizing in the KHL. The results of KHL clubs in the Spengler Cup (yes I know is unimportant, but the frequency of failure is amazing) are mediocre. A Russian KHL team in Sochi in 2018 almost lost the final to a German DEL team (and even at home). So the KHL can't be that strong. Second strongest league in the world, yes, but much closer to the SHL than you think.

We had this a thousand times. You can't base that discussion on cases of single players. And also not on such tournaments as Spengler Cup for example.

As for the Spengler Cup, Sochi is one of the worst KHL team. It being in the final at all is telling.

Also let's not forget there are nuances for every league. The KHL for example has a bunch of perennial contenders, a bunch of bottom feeders and a rather small contingent of teams inbetween who might have a good srason and compete in the playoffs or a bad one and end up among those bottom feeders. The NHL is much more evened out through the cap. So talking about KHL top teams and bottom feeders is talking about different worlds. I was talking about average level of the leagues.

I am btw all for creating some sort of tournament betwern the leagues. It just needs to have a formula that works for everybody. Spengler Cup is not that. CHL is not that as CHL organizers wanted the KHL to pay for everything and win nothing. If there is a tournament that actually works in the future I am on board.


As for SHL and Liiga players, by far not all of them succeed in the KHL. And it is the nature of things that KHL teams usually select the best out of those other leagues. It's the same like saying Panarin has no trouble being a NHL star, so the NHL is not that good.

 

[vorky]

We had this a thousand times. You can't base that discussion on cases of single players. And also not on such tournaments as Spengler Cup for example.

As for the Spengler Cup, Sochi is one of the worst KHL team. It being in the final at all is telling.

Also let's not forget there are nuances for every league. The KHL for example has a bunch of perennial contenders, a bunch of bottom feeders and a rather small contingent of teams inbetween who might have a good srason and compete in the playoffs or a bad one and end up among those bottom feeders. The NHL is much more evened out through the cap. So talking about KHL top teams and bottom feeders is talking about different worlds. I was talking about average level of the leagues.

I am btw all for creating some sort of tournament betwern the leagues. It just needs to have a formula that works for everybody. Spengler Cup is not that. CHL is not that as CHL organizers wanted the KHL to pay for everything and win nothing. If there is a tournament that actually works in the future I am on board.


As for SHL and Liiga players, by far not all of them succeed in the KHL. And it is the nature of things that KHL teams usually select the best out of those other leagues. It's the same like saying Panarin has no trouble being a NHL star, so the NHL is not that good.

Replying to bold.

As we know the KHL leadership talk about such things with René Fasel as the leading hockey personality & the IIHF President. And if you (not personally you because you know it, but other posters) read his interviews, he has said more than once what the plans are.

 

[Lambo]

We had this a thousand times. You can't base that discussion on cases of single players. And also not on such tournaments as Spengler Cup for example.

As for the Spengler Cup, Sochi is one of the worst KHL team. It being in the final at all is telling.

Also let's not forget there are nuances for every league. The KHL for example has a bunch of perennial contenders, a bunch of bottom feeders and a rather small contingent of teams inbetween who might have a good srason and compete in the playoffs or a bad one and end up among those bottom feeders. The NHL is much more evened out through the cap. So talking about KHL top teams and bottom feeders is talking about different worlds. I was talking about average level of the leagues.

I am btw all for creating some sort of tournament betwern the leagues. It just needs to have a formula that works for everybody. Spengler Cup is not that. CHL is not that as CHL organizers wanted the KHL to pay for everything and win nothing. If there is a tournament that actually works in the future I am on board.


As for SHL and Liiga players, by far not all of them succeed in the KHL. And it is the nature of things that KHL teams usually select the best out of those other leagues. It's the same like saying Panarin has no trouble being a NHL star, so the NHL is not that good.

Ufa, Jokerit, Magnitogorsk etc. were poor on Spengler Cup.

 

[Caser]

Sochi? Ufa, Magnitogorsk, Jokerit etc. all poor in Spengler Cup.

Just for the KHL players the Spengler Cup is more known as "fun winter vacation with families in Switzerland", although unfortunately for them some hockey needs to be played there too.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Have you noticed teams like Riga or Neftekhimik are part of the league? Guess not. And those could hardly beat the worst team on the SHL. So if the bottom teams are at the same level, how is the KHL by far the best?

NHL is so good because most players would rather play on the worst team there than any other league. KHL bottom teams are made up of players who have nowhere else to go. I'm fully aware it has 5 teams that can get all the players and have 4 times the player budget other teams in Europe do. To me, that's not enough to think it's the best league BY FAR.

Pretty accurate appraisal and would draw the comparison to major junior hockey in Canada.

If you're referring to the top teams with great resources then yes, the KHL would be the top league in Europe.

At the other end of the spectrum are clubs whose resources and ability to attract top players is a fraction of those clubs (In North America this would be the equivalent of ECHL clubs trying to compete with NHL franchises).

This is not uncommon throughout Europe - though in some cases relegation balances that inequity by forcing teams to compete to remain in the top level.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Just realized this thread got hijacked from its original topic and I inadvertently contributed to that.

Any news on the tournament itself?

 

[Atas2000]

Ufa, Jokerit, Magnitogorsk etc. were poor on Spengler Cup.

Because no KHL ever cares about that tournamnet. The league has to run circles to persuade a team to participate. and when tehy do all they care about is the ongoing KHL play. That is why I say there has to be a well arranged tournament that interests the participants.

 

[Lambo]

Just for the KHL players the Spengler Cup is more known as "fun winter vacation with families in Switzerland", although unfortunately for them some hockey needs to be played there too.

Despite i don t see a exceptionel strengh of KHL. I don t see the sense why they are in Davos. For party? They can do this in holidays. On World Championships KHL-Players are not the big different maker. The 2nd best league yes but far away from NHL and nearly to SHL.

 

[Czechboy]

Same thing.. game is at 6am over here so only watched Czech Highlights. I'd hate to see the Russian highlights becasue the Czech version of highlights looked like Russia completely owned us.lol One miraculous shot by Sedlak (that shot was fire) and otherwise it was globetrotter time!

Regarding KHL is WAY better... no. It's definitely better, I don't think anyone is arguing that are they? But to say way better than anyone is a bit silly. Put another way... if I were ranking leagues.

NHL 10/10
KHL 7/10
AHL 7/10 (although I'd never want to play pro in the AHL if I couldn't make the NHL but if I'm trying to get to the NHL, this is where I want to be for my early 20's)
SHL 6/10
everyone else 5/10

If I were to criticize the KHL on anything.. it'd be that they seem to lack a lot of parity. It seems like the top 5 teams or so have such an advantage over everyone else in the league.

Also, I agree Spengler Cup results don't prove anything... but I miss that tourney so much!

 

[Czechboy]

Despite i don t see a exceptionel strengh of KHL. I don t see the sense why they are in Davos. For party? They can do this in holidays. On World Championships KHL-Players are not the big different maker. The 2nd best league yes but far away from NHL and nearly to SHL.

I love the argument...

If a KHL team wins spengler.. it means they are superior league in Europe
If a KHL team loses at spengler.. it means they are superior league in Europe BUT didn't try very hard.lol

 

[vorky]

Same thing.. game is at 6am over here so only watched Czech Highlights. I'd hate to see the Russian highlights becasue the Czech version of highlights looked like Russia completely owned us.lol One miraculous shot by Sedlak (that shot was fire) and otherwise it was globetrotter time!

Regarding KHL is WAY better... no. It's definitely better, I don't think anyone is arguing that are they? But to say way better than anyone is a bit silly. Put another way... if I were ranking leagues.

NHL 10/10
KHL 7/10
AHL 7/10 (although I'd never want to play pro in the AHL if I couldn't make the NHL but if I'm trying to get to the NHL, this is where I want to be for my early 20's)
SHL 6/10
everyone else 5/10

If I were to criticize the KHL on anything.. it'd be that they seem to lack a lot of parity. It seems like the top 5 teams or so have such an advantage over everyone else in the league.

Also, I agree Spengler Cup results don't prove anything... but I miss that tourney so much!

There are more ways how to look at it. So I am asking again. Would an SHL/other club survive the KHL scheduling & travelling? If you read the interviews with Czech players in the KHL, they always say about it. It is one thing to win a game against a KHL team. But it is totally different matter to survive all season, especially if your financial resources are limited and you do not have a deep roster (as Russians say a long bench). Jokerit Helsinki is a great example of this, they are always out of gas in a playoff due to shorter bench of players & all travelling in season.

Another way is looking at financial resources. And connected to this - facilities. Just looking at venues say a lot to you. The KHL clubs getting new modern & big venues, they are the best in Europe in that department. For the last decade, we have 5 new arenas & building other 5 venues with a capacity over 10,000 seats. And I did not count Jokerit (big venue) & proposed venues for CSKA & KRS. Name me another European hockey league with such progress in the last decade. Within a few years, we will have just 3 or 4 venues with 5,000 seats in the KHL while these small venues are a norm in the rest of Europe.

And I do not say about the human resources & new technologies in the KHL. And their business connections & international diplomacy. No other European hockey league has it. Not even close.

 

[Lambo]

Same thing.. game is at 6am over here so only watched Czech Highlights. I'd hate to see the Russian highlights becasue the Czech version of highlights looked like Russia completely owned us.lol One miraculous shot by Sedlak (that shot was fire) and otherwise it was globetrotter time!

Regarding KHL is WAY better... no. It's definitely better, I don't think anyone is arguing that are they? But to say way better than anyone is a bit silly. Put another way... if I were ranking leagues.

NHL 10/10
KHL 7/10
AHL 7/10 (although I'd never want to play pro in the AHL if I couldn't make the NHL but if I'm trying to get to the NHL, this is where I want to be for my early 20's)
SHL 6/10
everyone else 5/10

If I were to criticize the KHL on anything.. it'd be that they seem to lack a lot of parity. It seems like the top 5 teams or so have such an advantage over everyone else in the league.

Also, I agree Spengler Cup results don't prove anything... but I miss that tourney so much!

Right! But think SHL = AHL(Both 6/10).

 

[Czechboy]

Right! But think SHL = AHL(Both 6/10).

You might be right... maybe a 6.5?

It's the last league I'd want to have a career in but it's hard to argue which league creates the most NHL players. Almost all the goalies and D in the NHL went through the AHL. Great league for developing. Awful league to get rich and make a living.

Eg. if I was a 23 year old Czech drafted in rounds 3 to 7 and I had the choice of another season in the AHL or going to the KHL.. I'm on a plane to Moscow!

If I was a 20 year old with the same options, get me on a bus to Stockton.lol

 

[Mawwerg]

Actually Czech team wasn't that that bad. Probably Russian team are more skillful here but it wasn't an onesided game and Czechs created a decent number of decent chances for themselves. And some for Russians too.

Overall when Alina Zagitova is the main star of a hockey tournament one can say it looks like some kind of degradation.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I see Lyamkin is sporting #69, another man of culture.

 

[barriers]

I see Lyamkin is sporting #69, another man of culture.

 

[Mawwerg]

Regarding one-sided games I believe this one is pretty close to be called even despite Pesonen has just scored.

 

[Lambo]

Creepy apperance by Finns in this tournament. The passing game, the duel behavior, the puck control etc. were catastrophic. The Russians hardly needed anything, especially in the last period, and still they scored two goals. Terrible appearance by suomi.

 

[Czechboy]

It was great to see so many rookie Czechs score their first goals in this tourney... Jasek, Pycha, Blumel, Gazda and at least one more scored their first goals for national team. Hrubec looked good in net today. The new Czechs seemed to have a really good showing.

Watching Russia/Finland now... Russians just seem on another level to me at this one. I love how aggressive they are and the puck flow.

 

[Czechboy]

Russia is having a good time in these Euro tours.lol